World of Diablo

General Discussion
... instead of D4. WoW is dying/dead. Next big thing. Discuss.
It's Diablo forum not Wow forum.
World of Diablo, no.

How about Diablo of Duty. Or Diablo Wars Battle For Naboo. Or Half Life 3, Diablo. Or Duke Diablo 4. or Counter-Strike, Diablo Offensive.
According to Blizzard, they have material for WoW till 2022 (read that in a game magizine, but don't ask me for source since this is already a few month old).

They wont create a Diablo MMO because it would compete with WoW.
First it wouldn't compete WoW because a Wow player is Rarely a D3 player and Vice Versa. Secondly, with the soon to be announced Launch of Lost Ark and Lineage Eternal, which up to now in my case, will replace Diablo for good if nothing is done, Blizzard cannot afford to not compete with these overf*hyped games that will steal the diablo franchise players. Third, Blizzard wants to gather all possible gamertypes. League of Legend making huge noise ? -> HotS , Badass Moba shooter ? no problem -> Overwatch , Prefer strategy card playing games , heh , Heartstone ! No job, lives with mom and wants to fill that 40 hours a week with intensive endless gaming -> WoW. I pretty much think a MMO H&S would be highly successful and awesome coming from blizzard, And it could even be named Sanctuary, instead of World of diablo that pretty much sounds like crap to me. Can't wait for Blizzcon.
really cool idea.
No. Blizzard will not make a game to compete with WoW.

It's nonsensical. It would alienate more fans from each of their products than it would help.

Diablo fans are already pissed that D3 is too much like WoW. If they came out with a Diablo MMO and ignored the ARPG genre that would alienate a ton of people from the IP.

Meanwhile WoW fans are by no means leaving WoW anytime soon, and they'd be pissed to see their game end, and the lore to just stop. Warcraft is Blizzard's baby. It built the company. As long as there is a blizzard there will be some sort of Warcraft game actively being created. I guarantee you.

They should make D4 an ARPG. And if WoW starts dying then they should make WoW 2. That will make both of their fans happy without potentially killing 2 franchises at once.
hd-3d openworld mmorpg wont become the ultimate gaming monopol. Period!

3d isometric and even turn by turn based gamed aren't through yet.
Example: Darkest Dungeon.

So now you wanna wait four hours in line for Raid40 to kill the butcher and his spawns? Oups... Kevin left the raid gotta find a pick-up.

Wanna go duel, fill your stash with ears? Oh... oups sorry Blizz says no duels available in World of Diablo either.

Oh well after all the hack'n slash eternal beta D3 has flushed Diablo role play down the drain.

Yay... now you can do Grifts and pimp your gems in 3d. High Five what a brilliant idea. Maybe you could hand some Blizzard toilet paper as well?
10/02/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Arsonyst
... instead of D4. WoW is dying/dead. Next big thing. Discuss.


is this some sort of random idea you had in the shower, throw it here and expect us to debate while you grab some popcorn ?

let me make this short for you :

WoW is definitely not dying, it just had an amazing expansion 1 month ago, when it launched it sold through 3.3 million copies — an all-time high for the franchise http://www.polygon.com/2016/9/8/12851794/world-of-warcraft-legion-sales-launch-day-subscribers-record, i play Legion and i can confirm it's the best expansion since Wrath of the Lich King and is nowhere near dead

Next big thing ? Next big thing would be to stop spaming random ideas in the forum.
10/02/2016 09:37 PMPosted by Max
Secondly, with the soon to be announced Launch of Lost Ark and Lineage Eternal, which up to now in my case, will replace Diablo for good if nothing is done, Blizzard cannot afford to not compete with these overf*hyped games that will steal the diablo franchise players.

Neither of those games will do much to actually steal players from multiplayer ARPG's like Diablo III, Path of Exile, etc. because those games are way more MMO than ARPG. South Korean MMO designers do a great job with the facade and are able to get ooh-and-ahhs from very slick trailers. Play an actual Korean designed MMO at end game and they all end up feeling the same when it comes to Korean style grinding, RNG heavy systems, and/or failure based mechanics (where gear can break the more they are refined/enchanted unless you utilize some type of cash shop item that increases the success rate or prevents an item from being destroyed on a failed enchant).

What players see visually reminds them of the contemporary ARPG; that is the isometric camera view and combat style. The actual combat system in many Korean made MMO's of this type tend to utilize a combo oriented design underlying the non-targeting combat.

Deeper into the actual core design though, these games are far more MMO in terms of the world and overall mechanics. For example, there is no fog of war and there is no randomized level designs and tile sets. The MMO part means a persistent open world that cannot be effectively randomized. Dungeons are instanced BUT also tend to have static layouts. And dungeons tend to be mechanics heavy where you have the very same objectives that need to be executed every time.

Open world co-op bosses tend to be contribution based (usually top 3-5 are the only ones to get the best reward) with a last hit mechanic serving as a way for lower DPS players to potentially steal a chance at those rewards. Many Diablo III players have zero idea what will be in store for them if they have never played a Korean MMO at end game. If they think the reward structure in D3 is whacked, guess again. If they think legendary gem leveling is a grind, think again. If they think the RNG that currently exists in D3 is bad when it comes to Kadala, the cube, or the mystic, nope.

In Diablo III, you can grind for cosmetic items like pets and wings that are then available to all your characters. And that grind is nothing compared to the above. In many Korean MMO's, you can spend real money to purchase credits to buy such cosmetics that are bound to one character (account wide is normally not a thing). In Path of Exile, you can share your cosmetics across characters.

Another thing is that the item diversity does not really exist in many of these Korean MMO-ARPG's. They normally have tiers of gear but not the breadth of weapon and armor types that you see in classic ARPG's (or even WoW). And this lack of a diverse item pool means very little theory crafting.

MU Online and Devilian (this one takes a lot of cues from Diablo) are two examples of currently published MMO-ARPG's from South Korean studios. The latter has an even more interesting background because their parent studio (Bluehole) was founded by the development team at NCSoft that was working on what was then known as Lineage III (what was renamed later to Lineage Eternal).

In 2009, Bluehole formed a subsidiary called Bluehole Ginno to work on an MMO with an ARPG flair (i.e. Devilian) to jump on the hype from the 2008 announcement of Diablo III. The relevant part is that NCSoft filed suit against those former developers for misappropriating trade secrets (which were being used in TERA) from the Lineage III project. One can presume that part of NCSoft's original designs for Lineage Eternal sort of exists in Devilian.

The point is that neither of these gained any major traction with ARPG players for a wide variety of reasons including game play, business model by the North American and European publisher, and the fact that at its core, these kind of games still pull more heavily from the MMO side at end game. When I stopped playing Diablo III last year after Blizzcon ended, I decided to solo progress through Devilian (I have several thousand hours now and have played it more than I have all of Diablo III since launch) knowing that it wasn't a pure ARPG as well as some of the cons mentioned earlier. And I still continue to play because I enjoy the mechanics. combat, and aesthetics. I stopped playing D3 because I expect it to be more like an ARPG versus what it has turned into, an action combat arcade game.

Blizzard knows that trying to shoehorn the Diablo ARPG franchise into an MMO isn't going to work for their captive ARPG players because they would have to crack some of the design challenges that are inherent with limited multiplayer style ARPG's when it comes to aspects like fog of war with a lot of randomized elements in the game world (and if players recall, one of the main complaints with D3 prior to Reaper of Souls adventure mode was that even its game world didn't come across as random even though the tile sets in the middle portions in many zones had some mild changes).

Basically, Blizzard doesn't have to do a "World of Diablo" to stave off this niche of Korean MMO-ARPG's. What they need to do is take a hard look at all the miscues that happened with Diablo III, learn form those mistakes, and build an entirely new core game system that is ARPG focused.
10/02/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Arsonyst
... instead of D4. WoW is dying/dead. Next big thing. Discuss.

lol )
WoW now = World of Diablo
Try to play and realize it.
Funny how you made the robots obey your command : >
who cares! as long as the next one isnt fixed camera, "glorified board game"

this isnt the 90's they have got the technology.
10/02/2016 09:37 PMPosted by Max
First it wouldn't compete WoW because a Wow player is Rarely a D3 player and Vice Versa.


I stopped reading after this. Most people that play either of these games are Blizzard franchise players that play across several of their IP's, if not all of them.
10/03/2016 02:36 PMPosted by WizarD
10/02/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Arsonyst
... instead of D4. WoW is dying/dead. Next big thing. Discuss.

lol )
WoW now = World of Diablo
Try to play and realize it.


WoW is more like "My little Pony meets Barbie meets Pokemon".
Everything is so easy it just falls over dead when you smack your face into the keyboard and you play dress up and have your pets do the real fighting.

Sadly, Diablo is going the same way.

Expect the swords to be replaced with pillows and the battles to become cuddle-fests where you have a mass cry and talk about your feelings.

Unless Activision (Blizzard is dead) gives the Diablo series to developers who develop for people over the age of 9, they should stick to just remastering D2 or retire Diablo for more kid-friendly IPs.
Legion already is "what if Diablo was an MMO" . They threw Jay !@#$ that loser Wilson at the director position and look what he churned out.
as long as wow exist they will never do this
10/02/2016 11:32 PMPosted by AshyLarry
If they came out with a Diablo MMO and ignored the ARPG genre that would alienate a ton of people from the IP.

You know, D3 was in production as MMO by Blizzard North. I am not seeing why Diablo can't be a MMOARPG and no reason why it could not exist next to WoW. There are way to many differences to compare even if they both were MMO's. Many people are playing more then one MMO anyway. Are there even players in the world who stick to simply 1 game?

Meanwhile WoW fans are by no means leaving WoW anytime soon, and they'd be pissed to see their game end, and the lore to just stop.

Are you sure? WoW is not WoW anymore and Blizzard should already have made another mmo instead of trying to make a trabant into a ferarri.

Also they threw the Lore from Warcraft in WoW out the window already and walking another path not to mention all these awefull changes to WoW making it more Diablo like (cough, jay wilson anyone?)

I am here too, a WoW fan and I left after testing Legion Alpha/Beta at the start of Legion, not bought the expansion and not subbing anymore, never ever! Way to messed up.

They should make D4 an ARPG. And if WoW starts dying then they should make WoW 2. That will make both of their fans happy without potentially killing 2 franchises at once.

Online gaming already killed both franchises, their right to make changes to the game assured us of that. WoW started milking after wotlk and got optimized for that. D3 after the huge changes that changed this whole game into something else then it initially was.

They already had to make sequals not expansions and trying to milk everyone who had respect for Blizzard North delivering good quality and finished games. It is called digging your own grave and dragging Blizzard North well earned name through the mud.
10/03/2016 02:19 PMPosted by LordMurasama
10/02/2016 09:37 PMPosted by Max
Secondly, with the soon to be announced Launch of Lost Ark and Lineage Eternal, which up to now in my case, will replace Diablo for good if nothing is done, Blizzard cannot afford to not compete with these overf*hyped games that will steal the diablo franchise players.

Neither of those games will do much to actually steal players from multiplayer ARPG's like Diablo III, Path of Exile, etc. because those games are way more MMO than ARPG. South Korean MMO designers do a great job with the facade and are able to get ooh-and-ahhs from very slick trailers. Play an actual Korean designed MMO at end game and they all end up feeling the same when it comes to Korean style grinding, RNG heavy systems, and/or failure based mechanics (where gear can break the more they are refined/enchanted unless you utilize some type of cash shop item that increases the success rate or prevents an item from being destroyed on a failed enchant).

What players see visually reminds them of the contemporary ARPG; that is the isometric camera view and combat style. The actual combat system in many Korean made MMO's of this type tend to utilize a combo oriented design underlying the non-targeting combat.

Deeper into the actual core design though, these games are far more MMO in terms of the world and overall mechanics. For example, there is no fog of war and there is no randomized level designs and tile sets. The MMO part means a persistent open world that cannot be effectively randomized. Dungeons are instanced BUT also tend to have static layouts. And dungeons tend to be mechanics heavy where you have the very same objectives that need to be executed every time.

Open world co-op bosses tend to be contribution based (usually top 3-5 are the only ones to get the best reward) with a last hit mechanic serving as a way for lower DPS players to potentially steal a chance at those rewards. Many Diablo III players have zero idea what will be in store for them if they have never played a Korean MMO at end game. If they think the reward structure in D3 is whacked, guess again. If they think legendary gem leveling is a grind, think again. If they think the RNG that currently exists in D3 is bad when it comes to Kadala, the cube, or the mystic, nope.

In Diablo III, you can grind for cosmetic items like pets and wings that are then available to all your characters. And that grind is nothing compared to the above. In many Korean MMO's, you can spend real money to purchase credits to buy such cosmetics that are bound to one character (account wide is normally not a thing). In Path of Exile, you can share your cosmetics across characters.

Another thing is that the item diversity does not really exist in many of these Korean MMO-ARPG's. They normally have tiers of gear but not the breadth of weapon and armor types that you see in classic ARPG's (or even WoW). And this lack of a diverse item pool means very little theory crafting.

MU Online and Devilian (this one takes a lot of cues from Diablo) are two examples of currently published MMO-ARPG's from South Korean studios. The latter has an even more interesting background because their parent studio (Bluehole) was founded by the development team at NCSoft that was working on what was then known as Lineage III (what was renamed later to Lineage Eternal).

In 2009, Bluehole formed a subsidiary called Bluehole Ginno to work on an MMO with an ARPG flair (i.e. Devilian) to jump on the hype from the 2008 announcement of Diablo III. The relevant part is that NCSoft filed suit against those former developers for misappropriating trade secrets (which were being used in TERA) from the Lineage III project. One can presume that part of NCSoft's original designs for Lineage Eternal sort of exists in Devilian.

The point is that neither of these gained any major traction with ARPG players for a wide variety of reasons including game play, business model by the North American and European publisher, and the fact that at its core, these kind of games still pull more heavily from the MMO side at end game. When I stopped playing Diablo III last year after Blizzcon ended, I decided to solo progress through Devilian (I have several thousand hours now and have played it more than I have all of Diablo III since launch) knowing that it wasn't a pure ARPG as well as some of the cons mentioned earlier. And I still continue to play because I enjoy the mechanics. combat, and aesthetics. I stopped playing D3 because I expect it to be more like an ARPG versus what it has turned into, an action combat arcade game.

Blizzard knows that trying to shoehorn the Diablo ARPG franchise into an MMO isn't going to work for their captive ARPG players because they would have to crack some of the design challenges that are inherent with limited multiplayer style ARPG's when it comes to aspects like fog of war with a lot of randomized elements in the game world (and if players recall, one of the main complaints with D3 prior to Reaper of Souls adventure mode was that even its game world didn't come across as random even though the tile sets in the middle portions in many zones had some mild changes).

Basically, Blizzard doesn't have to do a "World of Diablo" to stave off this niche of Korean MMO-ARPG's. What they need to do is take a hard look at all the miscues that happened with Diablo III, learn form those mistakes, and build an entirely new core game system that is ARPG focused.


This guy play too much F2P mmo. Have you tried Marvel Heroes? It's the closest thing to MMO ARPG. The end game is developing different heroes. They have a lot of heroes at this point. It's pretty costly if you wanna collect all heroes but you will be fine if you just focus on a few heroes which you can earn for free. They still very actively patching the game with new heroes and sidekick and also balancing the heroes with overhaul from time to time. Be warn though. The cosmetic item are mostly locked behind cash shop locked box. You have to spend some real money in gambling for the rare one.

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