Vyr Archon: which attack?

Wizard
Hello!

As a Vyr Archon I have all archon skills: but which deals the most dmg against a single enemy? Which builds up stacks the fastest against a single enemy?

We have
  • Lightning blast
  • Lightning strike
  • Disintegration wave
  • Good question.

    10/28/2016 02:06 PMPosted by Ophe
    Which builds up stacks the fastest against a single enemy?


    I tested this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4NTT36IxRg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSROo5OQu0g

    The Strike builds more stacks than the Wave. Probably a bug. But until it's fixed, I'd recommend using the Strike unless you need to back off to avoid dangerous RG attacks or elite affixes. Or to stand in an Oculus circle. Or maybe if you have a nice line of enemies. But outside of those situations, I'd say try to use the Strike if you are using 6p Vyr's.

    The strike is also slightly more weapon damage (790% vs. 779%), so should do slightly more single target DPS.

    As for the blast, you should always have that going. You can use the blast in combination with either the strike or the wave to gain additional stacks, because you can cast the blast simultaneously with one of the other two attacks. Every cast of the blast will grant you a stack, even while you have the wave or strike going. With practice, you should gain 25-30 stacks per Archon rotation from having the blast going constantly, on top of what you gain from the wave or strike.
    Thank you for a really good answer.
    Check out my answer here on the general use of archon skills:

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20744304515#post-7

    In that post I link a few tests performed by users like Tinne and I, and we found that stricken stacks slower with the disintegration wave.

    Stricken will not apply if it's internal cooldown is still active.

    When you use skills that have different speed coefficients, those skills will sometimes attempt to apply stricken when the internal cooldown is active. Since during these times they do not get applied, a gap of time, a delay in successive applications of the damage buff is introduced.

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20744064223#post-5

    05/17/2016 08:37 PMPosted by Cratic
    I'm pretty sure stricken attempts to apply damage per attack or per tick to the first target hit by that skill. However, since there is an ICD most likely related to inverse attack speed (1/APS), skills that use a coefficient other than standard attack rate can end up ticking during the time of the ICD. This introduces a delay that lowers the amount of stricken or MW:D stacks possible for that skill.

    This means that archon punch would likely be more consistent than the disintegrate wave for stricken stacking.

    The tick rate and the 1/APS math is such that missed or skipped ticks due to ICD overlap don't happen all the time.

    Basically you're not missing out terribly if you have to apply via the beam to dodge attacks.

    It's better to survive and on rare occasion not stack stricken than to not apply it at all, but if you can get in range, use the punch.
    Also keep in mind the proc rates for archon abilities (if using proc based skills or gems):

    Archon attacks
    • Archon - Arcane Blast : 0.25 per hit (secondary animation)
    • Archon - Arcane Strike : 0.5 per hit
    • Archon - Disintegration Wave : 0.1 per tick (Channeled - Speed Coef = 3)

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/8770117237#post-10
    10/29/2016 09:09 AMPosted by Cratic
    Also keep in mind the proc rates for archon abilities (if using proc based skills or gems):

    Archon attacks
    • Archon - Arcane Blast : 0.25 per hit (secondary animation)
    • Archon - Arcane Strike : 0.5 per hit
    • Archon - Disintegration Wave : 0.1 per tick (Channeled - Speed Coef = 3)

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/8770117237#post-10

    I'm not sure of how to interpret this. How often do the ticks occur? Is one stack equal to one tick or does it take several ticks to build up a stack?
    10/29/2016 01:28 PMPosted by Ophe
    10/29/2016 09:09 AMPosted by Cratic
    Also keep in mind the proc rates for archon abilities (if using proc based skills or gems):

    Archon attacks
    • Archon - Arcane Blast : 0.25 per hit (secondary animation)
    • Archon - Arcane Strike : 0.5 per hit
    • Archon - Disintegration Wave : 0.1 per tick (Channeled - Speed Coef = 3)

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/8770117237#post-10

    I'm not sure of how to interpret this. How often do the ticks occur? Is one stack equal to one tick or does it take several ticks to build up a stack?

    Hi Orphe, what I posted here doesn't relate to stricken stacking or archon stacks, but relates to proc rates of things like APoC (Arcane Power on Crit), where the amount of AP returned is multiplied by the proc coefficient. This also comes into play with skills like MW:Ignite, and gems like Mirinae or Wreath of Lightning, where there is a chance of activation.

    I just wanted to mention the proc rates (as a sort of afterthought) since it could be relevant to the build you are running.

    As to your question about how often ticks occur with Disintegration wave:

    Ticks can occur as often as APS allows. Typically this is:
    APS / Speed coefficient of the spell.

    In this case speed coefficient is 3. Simple example of 1 APS would be:

    1 APS / 3 = .33s per tick

    When it says .1 chance to proc per tick that is how often it means. 10% every .33s in this example.

    -----

    However, what you're wondering about doesn't relate to proc rates, but stacking. I can only say from testing of stricken and MW:D (I haven't tested archon stacks) that there is an internal cooldown that exists that is activated after a stack is applied. Chance to stack is 100%, so the first tick that attempts to apply will apply, but will also activate the ICD.

    On occasion the next tick will occur before the ICD is over, and since the ICD prevents stricken or MW:D from applying, it will have to wait until the next (3rd) tick. This is the gap I am talking about, in between the 2nd and 3rd ticks, when there is downtime between applying and not applying a stack.

    Now imagine this cycle occurring over and over many times, and you can see why you gain less shields with MW:D or less stricken damage bonus with the skill that has such a speed coefficient.

    As Tinne and I were saying though, that shouldn't prevent you from using the Disintegration wave if you can't slam because of RG attacks you need to avoid. Dealing damage / applying stacks is still better than doing nothing.

    -----

    As an aside: when you are looking in game, ticks aren't always displayed when damage is displayed. For some skills, the damage numbers are summed, and therefore out of sync with tick rate.

    Based on this older, but advanced mechanics guide by apo, Disintegrate and disintegration wave both sum and only display damage numbers every .8s.

    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/8770117237#post-5

    It's the type of damage display that sums and adapts. So if you happened to crit on one of the ticks that applied damage during that time, the number will simply be bigger when it's finally displayed at the end of .8s, the sum of all crit and non-crit damage ticks during that time period.

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