D3, POE, Grim Dawn. My opinion

Games & Technology
Hello. First of all I would like to clarify that my English isn't good because I'm not a Native speaker, my apologies.

I’m an old guy. I played D1, D2 and D3 since they came out.

I have played POE and I have Grim Dawn. In my opinion POE isn’t good. The game is free but if you want good armour, weapons, transmogs, pets, wings, stash tab, character slots or character effects, scene effects and more, you need to pay. Of course, is possible with the game coins, but there are really difficult to get. Everyone resortes to buying with dollars. It's a P2W.
The tree of abilities is enormous, too big for my taste and everybody ends up copying builds. The Hardcore players really enjoy it. I have played Diablo 3 since it came out, 3 hours per day, double on weekends and when I dedicated the same time to POE, my progress is very slow. And that it’s because I haven’t spent any money. If you don't pay, you can't progress or you do it very slowly and forget about the seasons.
The graphics sections are poor, I don't like them at all. The game play is poor to, frustrating sometimes.

Grim dawn is paid game, about $25 more or less plus another $5 to play the season. Grim Dawn Loyalist Edition cost $75.
The new characters that are about to come out aren’t free. Grim is very similar to D2, with a smaller abilities tree than POE, but more complex than D2 and obviously more than D3. Graphically D3 has barely improved. The fluidity of combat in both (POE/GD) it's very distant from D3. Diablo exceeds them in that aspect in my opinion, D3 is greater than the others, could be much better, we all know that. But I prefer it over POE and GD.

I see many angry people these days with the results of Blizzcon.
Some claims make sense, but no one offers free extra content and the Necro is extra content.

We all have the right to express ourselves, for this reason is the forum. But a little respect and grounding with the criticism doesn't come badly.
Go and play POE and GD, then tell me.
Although they are good games, they don't measure up to Diablo, that is only my opinion of course. But with too many critics without or with little experience in this 3 games is a little less appreciated.

Regards. Ariel
Nothing in PoE is pay to win. Beyond stash tabs of which you start with 5 every single item in the cash shop is cosmetic and not needed at all.
If you think POE is PTW then you haven't played POE. Only thing you need to buy is stash space and that's only if you hoard items. You get 5 free stash tabs, like D3 to start.
If you are easily amused D3 is your game, if you like depth & creativity PoE & GD are for you.
If I have 10 minutes when I just want to wreck face I play D3, the other 99% of the time I play PoE.

Btw, PoE is not remotely pay to win, but you are right that it's probably too difficult for the modern D3 player.
First of all you really need to know the definition of pay to win. As far as i know Pay to win concepts doesn't apply to POE at all, not even in the slightest.

Ok, now having said that POE is better than D3 by such immeasurable length that it can't be compared. To sum it up simply POE is for more hardcore people wheres as D3 only caters to the casual crowd. You come home from work, school w/e and then you have 1-2 hr before dinner that is when you load up d3 grind few levels and go to bed. Grim dawn is also far superior than D3 and a bit more simpler than POE in the skill tree department but still a far better game than D3. The background music alone provides so much ambiance and atmosphere to the game play, its surreal. True you have to pay for Grim dawns expansion and what not but they deliver for your moneys worth.

There has been hundreds of posts relevant to what changes could make D3 far superior and better than any other arpgs in the market given Blizzard's potential. But, all has fallen into deaf ears. And it is this primary reason why the game is in its pitiful state as of today. All of you claim that there are whinners in this forum who offer no positive criticism but you people don't take the time to search this forum and see how many posts have been made previously by dedicated hardcore fans about enhancements to this game. I have seen several really good quality features that this game would highly benefit (don't really have the patience to dig up old posts, some one else i am sure can link few) from but none of them will ever see the light of day. People get frustrated when they repeat the same thing over and over again and nobody listens. This is why the community is enraged, can't really blame them. They have every right to criticize.
11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
In my opinion POE isn’t good. The game is free but if you want good armour, weapons, transmogs, pets, wings, stash tab, character slots or character effects, scene effects and more, you need to pay.

You don't have to pay. Learning to understand the economy and working your way through it doesn't demand you to spend unless you're too damn impatient to do the work and decide to get it from a third party seller.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
Everyone resortes to buying with dollars. It's a P2W.

That doesn't mean you have to. People said the same thing about D2, yet I never felt pushed towards shady dealers to get my stuff. Just because someone would doesn't mean you have to do it. Honestly, buying stuff kinda kills the purpose behind these games. It didn't make sense in D2. it didn't make sense here when the RMAH was a thing. It doesn't make sense in PoE. If people want to take that shortcut, more power to them, but I don't, and I'm happy working through the economy.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
The tree of abilities is enormous, too big for my taste and everybody ends up copying builds.

It's called depth. If it's too overwhelming for you, then stay away from the game, but once you get a hang of it, it's actually pretty easy to come up with some good builds of your own. D3 goes the completely opposite way. It won't even let you actually experiment on your own, and will throw stupidly overpowered sets at your face, in case you're too stupid to figure them out on your own.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
The Hardcore players really enjoy it. I have played Diablo 3 since it came out, 3 hours per day, double on weekends and when I dedicated the same time to POE, my progress is very slow. And that it’s because I haven’t spent any money. If you don't pay, you can't progress or you do it very slowly and forget about the seasons.

So your problem isn't the game itself, but that it doesn't cater to your need for instant gratification. That doesn't mean the game isn't good, just that you have different needs than the demographic the game caters to.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL

The graphics sections are poor, I don't like them at all. The game play is poor to, frustrating sometimes.

Some like cartoony stylized graphics. Some like gritty settings. While I really dislike certain sections of the game, the overall ambiance and tone suits way better the dark fantasy setting these games tend to gravitate towards. Wraeclast feels like a truly unforgiving and hostile land. Sanctuary feels like a children's playground in comparison, even if you put a few dismembered corpses piled up here and there. D3, while not bad at all, feels way too clean, for lack of a better word, and the very storyline and NPC design makes it even worse, since nobody can't seem to shut the hell up about how awesome the nephalem is. It's hard to feel the world is in chaos when crap like that is thrown at your face all the time.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
Grim dawn is paid game, about $25 more or less plus another $5 to play the season. Grim Dawn Loyalist Edition cost $75.
The new characters that are about to come out aren’t free. Grim is very similar to D2, with a smaller abilities tree than POE, but more complex than D2 and obviously more than D3. Graphically D3 has barely improved. The fluidity of combat in both (POE/GD) it's very distant from D3. Diablo exceeds them in that aspect in my opinion, D3 is greater than the others, could be much better, we all know that. But I prefer it over POE and GD.

GD has a phenomenal value. Even if the skill system is less overwhelming at first sight, it's incredibly flexible and has exceptional depth, considering class mixes and devotion. I like GD more than PoE, honestly. Combat does seem a bit slow when you start, but later on it can get pretty damn hectic. The thing is, D3 focuses on aracde-type of combat. It's fluidity is a consequence of that focus, and that's why it shines. Unfortunately, that's all D3 has going for it, because it's as shallow as a summer puddle, thanks to the absurd level of progression streamlining the WoWheads in the Diablo team shoehorned into this game, only so they could control everything. It's a fun game, but gets boring too fast because you can't even try anything new without wasting your time thanks to that compulsory controlling mentality reigning over at the office©.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
I see many angry people these days with the results of Blizzcon.
Some claims make sense, but no one offers free extra content and the Necro is extra content.

Because the game's in a horrible state. The necro is cool and all, but a metric ton of design flaws remain and they haven't given any signs of even acknowledging them. Personally, my biggest problem with this game is absurd degree of progression streamlining around sets. They made them way too strong, and diversity was destroyed as a consequence. Wanna try something on your own? Good luck barely reaching GR50, if at all. But don't worry, Haedrig's Welfare will be thrown to your face for doing nothing just to make sure you don't stray away from their grand design. It's ridiculous how controlling these designers are, and they harm the Diablo name by following that mindset. A new class won't fix that, and will inevitably end up being funneled into a couple of FOTM setups as well.

That insulting degree of hand-holding is something I've never have to cope up with in any other ARPG Ive played. Why the hell did it have to be Diablo? That's why many of us complain so much.

11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL
We all have the right to express ourselves, for this reason is the forum. But a little respect and grounding with the criticism doesn't come badly.
Go and play POE and GD, then tell me.
Although they are good games, they don't measure up to Diablo, that is only my opinion of course. But with too many critics without or with little experience in this 3 games is a little less appreciated.

Both PoE and GD have long out-Diablo'd this version of the game. It's not even funny, considering both GGG and Crate have way less resources than Blizzard, and many more companies already handle ARPGs way better than bigbrother Blizz. With all the stuff that's going on in the genre, I honestly expected way more than what they presented. It was an extremely lackluster presentation. Seriously, when Wyatt has to try to hype up "small changes" as incredible features, you know there's not a lot going on. At least they didn't waste their limited time talking about history this time, though, so at least that's something.
I've spent some time in Grim Dawn and what I can say about it is this...

...There are very few skills a character can use. You basically pick one auto-attack and one-cast ability, up to three pets and a few auras that do different things.
It's not very complex in that regard but it's fun because every level up matters and I gain a little bit of power each time and I can make some choices with my character growth (or delay it until I feel the need to make choices).
Diablo 3 lacks this entirely and was a criticized non-feature early on with "auto-stats". Characters can switch out their abilities at max level and you spend all your time sometimes replacing gear that has little influence on your choices due to it's very linear early game affixes. It just scales slowly with level and they're all very similar or garbage except for sometimes Legendaries which you often keep in slot until (and maybe) if the legendary affix is weaker than the stat gains of a higher level.

There's plenty of choices presented in terms of skills but to be perfectly realistic; When your leveling up, you eventually get the skills' rune you planned on using from the very beginning long before you hit level 70 and eventually you stop caring about what you've unlocked with every level up. It's a small step forward with scaling monsters that make your existing gear obsolete with each level gained.

The moment you hit level 70, you ask Kadala to replace all your slots with level 70 gear because they're just going to roll higher stats and sometimes as legendary which is better than the rares she'll give (or you'll find).
Not true.You don't need Stash tabs nor € to go to End-Game content.I've never used chaos Recipe much and get every Season End-Game Build's.Approx, if you work, 1Month for Season and you done then its boring anyways.

Grim Dawn beats Diablo3 and PoE, imo.Paying or not doesn't metter in any ways.
I'm with Blashyrkh. Grim Dawn is great. I think the graphics and gameplay are solid and it's damned good value. Especially when you consider you can get it on GoG DRM free and if you time it right get it cheap during a special. I love the fact that it allows modding and effectively unlimited characters.

PoE was a little underwhelming for me. I gave it a try a couple times but found the graphics to be a little ropy (moreso than GD). I should probably give it another whirl now it's gone through a few more updates. See if some of the annoying bits have been smoothed out.

Honestly, I think there's room for all three of these games in a person's library (and Torchlight too) alongside D3. They all have slightly different mechanics so why not play all of them?
Yes, the only thing that D3 has going for it is its combat fluidity. It's what kept me playing (and friends) until 2 seasons ago. However, the lack of depth, purpose and accomplishment, ultimately turned me away from the game. I'm now mainly playing Overwatch, and recently returned to Grim Dawn and am pleasantly surprised to see the game being updated nicely since the last time.

I've tried PoE but it wasn't my cup of tea, but I can see why it could be for others. If only PoE & GD were afforded a larger budget to improve visuals and combat, D3 would be an afterthought long ago. As an action RPG, the visuals and combat are equally as important as the systems, so D3 manages to retain some charm in that department.

Despite the poorer technical specs in GD, I enjoy theorycrafting character builds, leveling provides a meaningful progression toward those goals, exploring any part of the world furthers the definition of a character (killing bandits over and over again incurs the wrath of the bandit faction, and eventually its overlord), and am not so obviously penalized as it is so clear-cut in D3 (campaign/bounties vs rifting).

IMO, Blizzard has really, really, REALLY talented artists, designers and programmers, but the game devs are the weakest link in every game which I'm familiar with (D3, Overwatch, Hearthstone). Making the games more accessible to the casual gamer is fine, but they're doing it in a half-assed way and lack the capabilities to solve the problems which they create in doing so.
OP voted down for blatant inaccuracy. enough ppl have said it: PoE is not at all pay to win in the way you suggest. the stuff you pay for with real $ is just cosmetic. the in-game mechanical properties of the items exist solely within the game and do not cost real $. yes, you can trade for them with other players via in-game currency. i.e. the stuff you pick up off the ground, i.e. "gold" in diablo terms.

as for RMT in PoE. I really don't think it is going on at any significant level. "annoying" as it may be, arguably the top players of the game are streamers. how are ppl going to pull off shady RMTs while they're streaming?....... I have never once in-game seen any believable suggestion that RMT was going on. ppl get their gear the "old-fashioned" way -- (literally, if u know what I mean about the PoE trade system :| but I digress) -- they grind and either find it or trade for it.

Grim Dawn looks appealing but it is my understanding that it has one fatal flaw: it has the clunky-feeling click-lock feel and attack/cast animations of its predecessor, Titan Quest. This is highly unfortunate as otherwise I like TQ, and I'm sure I would like GD, but .. this issue makes it feel primitive and arduous to play.

And we all know what D3's about, don't we? Basically a failed experiment by people who never should have been let in the lab in the first place. :|
11/10/2016 07:47 PMPosted by BurnNotice
If you think POE is PTW then you haven't played POE. Only thing you need to buy is stash space and that's only if you hoard items. You get 5 free stash tabs, like D3 to start.


POE isn't pay to win for casuals? Check it out before the link is deleted by bliz mods.

http://mmogold4usa.com/path-of-exile-standard?zenid=7c6db390d3de4cb2a7398ba75ee21ca1

just sayin
11/10/2016 08:01 PMPosted by royalgoddess
There has been hundreds of posts relevant to what changes could make D3 far superior


That's basically impossible though. The idea's people put forward would require them to make a whole new base engine for the game or try and cram it on top of the engine they are using. Like what Bethesda did with there !@#$ty out dated engine for Fallout 4.
I vote Remastered D2, but Blizzard would probably say the game isn't fun anymore.
give Blashyrkh a medal already. This guy hits the nail 100%.
11/10/2016 07:37 PMPosted by ARIEL

I have played POE and I have Grim Dawn. In my opinion POE isn’t good. The game is free but if you want good armour, weapons, transmogs, pets, wings, stash tab, character slots or character effects, scene effects and more, you need to pay. Of course, is possible with the game coins, but there are really difficult to get. Everyone resortes to buying with dollars. It's a P2W.

[/quote]

I stoped read here. No need to say to the world that you are not capable to understand simple things.
The price isnt the problem with Grim Dawn. It's the lack of endgame that holds it back. There will never be ladders or leaderboards like in PoE or D3, because that is not something they can support.
But GD is worth the money for the story and it has some nice gameplay. Not sure about the crucible thing, I've done it a few times but it's not really my thing.
Expansion is coming out later next year with 2 new masteries, and perhaps they will manage to do some endgame. Or else it will just be a few story mode runs and be done with it.
Remember D3 didnt have any endgame until the rifts and GR were made.
I played POE and rather liked it. It has a lot of depth and flexibility, and a very big life-expectancy. It also have a few flaws, like the absence of a currency you could store with taking precious inventory space, and an inventory that is far too small. It's really no fun having to return to town after picking up something like 8 items. And the graphics and animations are subpar.

GD, on the other hand, suffer from a slow start and non-random maps (however pathways are randomly blocked). But it also has a lot of depth, an incredible amount of viable builds compared to D3. And those complaining about the animations obviously haven't unlocked a lot of the proc skills. I consider it the best H&S currently released.
11/10/2016 09:38 PMPosted by Traveler
11/10/2016 07:47 PMPosted by BurnNotice
If you think POE is PTW then you haven't played POE. Only thing you need to buy is stash space and that's only if you hoard items. You get 5 free stash tabs, like D3 to start.


POE isn't pay to win for casuals? Check it out before the link is deleted by bliz mods.

http://mmogold4usa.com/path-of-exile-standard?zenid=7c6db390d3de4cb2a7398ba75ee21ca1

just sayin

So because people come up with a third party website the game becomes P2W? No, it doesn't. Again, if you're part of the instant gratification crowd that simply can't be bothered to work their way through the game's economy, that's not the game's fault. D2 had third party websites selling stuff too, yet it wasn't P2W. Any game with an open economy will have people trying to profit from it. That doesn't mean the games themselves were designed to break progression through your wallet. It simply means some would rather use the game as a financial investment to prey on those too impatient to acquire their stuff as it was meant to be acquired.

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