Are we spoiled?

General Discussion
well like you said, since the game gets watered down, because they cater to the casuals, so they will buy the game. What could they do for their long time fans? you know, the people like me and many others who have been here since error 37.

There are some brilliant minds behind the doors at Blizzard. You would think that they would be able to come up with a solution to this issue. That is unless they simply don't care about the Diablo franchise any more. Because plain and simple, if it stays like this, they can pretty much guarantee that Diablo will in fact die off, because people will no longer have any interest in it.
1 month to reach end game is not bad actually. that's really slow. Although that isn't the actual speed. The actual speed is more like 1-2 days to reach end game. End game starts when you reach level 70, and that is pretty normal. Also, this game is not watered down due to "casuals" it is watered down because they took away trading. They had to make it actually possible to gear yourself without trading. Then with the added smart loot of having 90% items dropping for your class this is accelerated. People who have played the other Diablo games aren't used this; they are used to having to trade for the majority of their items. Imo I'd rather have trading allowed. drops decreased to about 25% of what it is and then smart loot turned off, but that's just me.

e/ not saying this game hasn't been tuned down in difficulty to support casuals but item drops wasn't increased because of this. Inferno was impossible for casuals, but it was required for any good gear as only certain gear dropped in inferno. So they changed that and allowed some of the items to drop in the later parts of hell but that wasn't good enough. They kept changing difficulty until casuals were happy enough with being able to farm. Now basically any casual can reach torment which is all you need to have access to all gear.
11/13/2016 04:57 PMPosted by mcdougal
But the problem is how to make the game fun for the majority too .

Imo make Rare items better. You find Rares all the time.. if they were close to legendary quality in stats you could still get upgrades and improve a lot while seeking for Legendaries that are harder to find.

Make it possible to find ethereal Rare or something which would be as good as Ancient Legendary but you could only repair it with a specific rare consumable. It would be possible to roll a Indestructible secondary stat though.

If we had this kind of system in the game in the Release of RoS together with lower drop rates of Legendaries that we had .. it could have been just fine to play. I think the problem now was that it was sometimes (with bad luck) hard to get those upgrades and progress to higher difficulties.

11/15/2016 02:57 AMPosted by Kasey
Imo I'd rather have trading allowed. drops decreased to about 25% of what it is and then smart loot turned off, but that's just me.

We should have RoS release drop rates which were much lower..
Then maybe some kind of inside of Clan trade system. With some smart trade cooldowns on joining / leaving the guild so you couldn't abuse the system.
11/13/2016 06:10 PMPosted by Tetra
Of course they have to make the item drops super high in this game.

I mean, look at D3! Your entire progression comes from simply slapping on gear with bigger numbers and wearing the correct sets!


people complained during vanilla that they didn't get the top-gear very easy/fast.
So even if they move progression away from gear and nerf droprates, then people will just get back to complain that they can't get the top-gear very easy/fast....

the issue is players wanting to get top-gear very easy/fast, that simply doesn't change if you move progression from gear more towards char.

11/15/2016 02:57 AMPosted by Kasey
drops decreased to about 25% of what it is and then smart loot turned off, but that's just me.


you're not the only one seeing it this way ^^
silly materialism
I don't think it's a matter of being spoiled, but about the entire game revolving around very specific items and setups, and not offering any character growth options aside from these sets being stupidly overpowered. If you don't reach the amount of power a set unlocks, it's hard to feel actually rewarded in this game.

If you don't get those handful of actually useful items, the game will feel stingy as hell, because they didn't bother balancing things properly for all loot to be enjoyable.

If more of the loot you get on the run was actually useful, drop frequency wouldn't need to be so high. More importantly, stripping your skill system from actually translating into power on it's own is one of the main reasons loot kinda needs to rain from the sky in this game. Since everything revolves around your gear and your decisions are just limited to picking the skill that multiplies those stats the highest, loot became more important than it needed to be.

In contrast, other games allow you to develop quite a substantial amount of power within the skill system itself, even if you don't get particularly good gear. This acts as a strong counterweight for RNG drops. For instance, in Grim Dawn my most recent character is lvl 65 and fashions a pet-oriented build. He's still using a few pieces of gear under lvl 20, because I haven't been lucky enough to replace them with higher level pet gear. However, this hasn't prevented the character from feeling quite strong, because the build itself offers a huge amount of power, so even though RNG is crappy, the experience remains extremely enjoyable.

Honestly, getting rid of that sort of strong player-driven progression it one of the stupidest design decisions they could've made for Diablo. It just shows how little they understand the genre.
11/13/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Gimpzor
When it comes to item drops, and making things easy, do you think Blizzard has spoiled us in D3? I can remember back when getting legendaries was something to be excited about, and getting an upgrade was even more exciting. Things also used to be a lot more difficult, so there was a sense of reward there when you would kill a hard uber boss or any boss for that matter and get a good item.

Now we are at a point where we expect legendaries to just rain from the sky, and as a result, you can start a season and be fully ancient geared with 800+ paragon in less than a month.

There is no feeling of reward anymore. Like I stated, I remember when uber bosses came out. If you attempted them on even torment 3 you had your hands full. Now it's just max difficulty in a matter of no time.

I believe that this is also what leads to some of the dreadful endgame. Yes I know we haven't had any new content in a while. But what does blizzard expect if you reach the endgame within a month or less of a fresh season restart.

Like I said, I believe the game has simply become too easy, and everything is basically handed to you, instead of having to work for it.


When D3 first came out, you would be Lucky to find 1 leg per Day
and players where raging on forums!
now we have 10+ legs per hour and guess what?
players are raging on forums !
For every post some 1 cryed about asking to remove when D3 first came out, there is another post with someone crying asking for that same feature
11/15/2016 04:24 AMPosted by Blashyrkh
I don't think it's a matter of being spoiled, but about the entire game revolving around very specific items and setups, and not offering any character growth options aside from these sets being stupidly overpowered. If you don't reach the amount of power a set unlocks, it's hard to feel actually rewarded in this game.

If you don't get those handful of actually useful items, the game will feel stingy as hell, because they didn't bother balancing things properly for all loot to be enjoyable.

If more of the loot you get on the run was actually useful, drop frequency wouldn't need to be so high. More importantly, stripping your skill system from actually translating into power on it's own is one of the main reasons loot kinda needs to rain from the sky in this game. Since everything revolves around your gear and your decisions are just limited to picking the skill that multiplies those stats the highest, loot became more important than it needed to be.

In contrast, other games allow you to develop quite a substantial amount of power within the skill system itself, even if you don't get particularly good gear. This acts as a strong counterweight for RNG drops. For instance, in Grim Dawn my most recent character is lvl 65 and fashions a pet-oriented build. He's still using a few pieces of gear under lvl 20, because I haven't been lucky enough to replace them with higher level pet gear. However, this hasn't prevented the character from feeling quite strong, because the build itself offers a huge amount of power, so even though RNG is crappy, the experience remains extremely enjoyable.

Honestly, getting rid of that sort of strong player-driven progression it one of the stupidest design decisions they could've made for Diablo. It just shows how little they understand the genre.


I love this post. That sounds so awesome.. Having a skill system that makes you powerful, and having gear that compliments that. But like you said, the gear doesn't make or break the build ( it simply compliments it )..

Same way when they had an actual talent tree in WoW. Now, it's pick these 6 talents or however many it is, and your done.

Hell, I have never played POE but I have watched a few people stream it. Holy mother of talent tree. Talk about endless possibilities of diversity. That to me creates an end game.
i played lately about 100 hours with my (well equiped) monk;
-i didn't have a single drop that upped my gearscore

just to say that the game gives you 'goodies' until a certain point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYbt27bRMqs - 2.53 to 3:00
lies.. lies everywhere :)
11/13/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Gimpzor
When it comes to item drops, and making things easy, do you think Blizzard has spoiled us in D3? I can remember back when getting legendaries was something to be excited about, and getting an upgrade was even more exciting. Things also used to be a lot more difficult, so there was a sense of reward there when you would kill a hard uber boss or any boss for that matter and get a good item.
The game has shifted from farming to playing. To me, that's a very good thing. As someone who plays usually 10-20 hours a week, Vanilla was boring as heck. Now at least, I can put decent builds together in no time flat...and play the game.
11/16/2016 05:06 AMPosted by Shanso
11/13/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Gimpzor
When it comes to item drops, and making things easy, do you think Blizzard has spoiled us in D3? I can remember back when getting legendaries was something to be excited about, and getting an upgrade was even more exciting. Things also used to be a lot more difficult, so there was a sense of reward there when you would kill a hard uber boss or any boss for that matter and get a good item.
The game has shifted from farming to playing. To me, that's a very good thing. As someone who plays usually 10-20 hours a week, Vanilla was boring as heck. Now at least, I can put decent builds together in no time flat...and play the game.


So the game is fun and interesting for players like you who devote 10 to 20 hours a week. That's fine, and I am glad you are having fun.

The issue is, Blizzard completely ignores players like me and many others, who simply run out of things to do. So it becomes paragon farming. Yay, what an awesome time. Farming a number.

The issue, is lack of content and build diversity for players who can play 30+ hours a week.

Let me give you a recap.
1. Pick a character that will be in the meta.
2. Completely gear that character in less than a week,
3. Start farming T11 for keys, and start farming Greater rifts.
4. Get full ancient gear in less than 2 weeks.
5. Grind level 92+ Greater rifts for paragon.
6. Repeat Step 5 until a week left of the season and push leaderboard.
7. Yay fun.. (NOT)

There is nothing fun about the game anymore, unless you are a casual player. There is nothing to look forward to. Oh crap, forgot about the necromancer.. JK,, That's almost a year away.

So let's see. We have normalized rifts coming. Yay. More of doing the exact same S&*%. We get a new class. Yay. you will farm its gear in 2 weeks and go farm paragon.

The game is simply dead, and needs a big content patch plain and simple. A new class and normalized dungeons, that aren't planned to release for months down the road, simply isn't enough.

Blizzard for some reason simply keeps ignoring what's left of the diablo fan base. and as a result, this game is dying, and will more than likely be completely dead before the next content release. There will be a small influx of people coming back to play the necro, and the normalized rifts, but they will get bored within a month and leave.
11/13/2016 06:28 PMPosted by Demonmonger
11/13/2016 06:10 PMPosted by Tetra
Of course they have to make the item drops super high in this game.

I mean, look at D3! Your entire progression comes from simply slapping on gear with bigger numbers and wearing the correct sets!

Paragon leveling is pathetic and shallow and doesn't offer anything special towards building your character. So ultimately you either wear the right gear or you gimp yourself into oblivion!

There isn't even open trading in this game to help offset the RNG from gear!

So in the end they HAVE to made droprates super high. Otherwise people will just quit because there is absolutely no other way to advance in the game. You either find/gamble your way to victory or you lose. There is no middle-ground whatsoever!

Ironically, people end up quitting anyway because they find everything they need shortly after starting each season. D3 is self-defeating at every turn!


People are self defeating, the game is just fine.

Nobody knows how to enjoy themselves anymore, they just look to !@#$% at every corner.


Care to cite some specifics? Or are you just going to attack people that post things you disagree with without any evidence or supporting arguments at all?

Troll detected.
Maybe it would be fun if they added ultra-rare items, say "epic items" or something that would drop only one or two times during a season even if you play hard?
hello guys

I often read the forum and i agree with both the happy and unhappy people arround. I want to be able to play this game as much as i want and still feel progression. The real problem here is Paragon levels (not the concept it self but the way its implemented).

Here are some solutions i think might improve the overall gameplay and some changes that might just transform this game without a complete rework from developers:

1) Death penalty: LEGENDARY GEMS should not last forever. When you die they should get damaged like normal gear. The difference is that you would not be able to repair them. Make gems last like 5 or 10 deaths and then they are gone. This way, we would use some builds not only optimized for dmg output but instead people would actually care about staying alive. Many different builds would come up and the play style would drastically change. GR progression woudnt be so mindless and GR farming would be much more intense and RISKY!

2) Kanai's Cube: Why on earth do we get the maxed out legendary affix when we extract? If you find a 150% CoE you shoud get that 150% on the cube and not 200%. This way, farming normal rifts woudnt be just for GR keys. You actually would have more chances of geting more upgrades during a farming session (even if its just for the cube).

2.1) Let us extract the SET bonus itself. Make it like we can chose to use 3 legendary powers or 1 set bonus on the cube. Build diversity would sky rocket.

3) Normal gems are boring as F##K. Why would someone use a 23% health on the helm if insted we could use some legendary gem like " Double all %Health and LoH on you gear" or something else that would actually make some people build differently. There should be some really special gems for the offhand items also. And remember that L. GEMS don't last for ever anymore ( point1) :)

4) Set dungeons are really cool. I dont get why people dont like them. They are the only places where you don't focus on killing all the mobs you can as fast as you can. I find some of them really hard. Why dont we get loot or materials or anything from them? There is some room here to add something new to the game.

5) I think Blizzard did a fine job with goblins overall. There are many of them, they drop stuff and they even open portals. But there is not really an incentive to farm goblins over GR or Bounties. I think that gobs (and only gobs) should drop something unique. And dont Bull###t me with cosmetic stuff. Maybe something related to Followers (like really powerfull items for them, maybe even sets or maybe some new skills and runs for their habilities that they can learn)and this coud be the way to balance solo play vs group play - boost the followers. I really think that goblin farm should be a thing.

6) I NEED SOME INCENTIVE TO PLAY CAMPAIN MODE. Please. Just please. Why is it so inneficient compared to adventure mode? I mean, dont force anyone to do it. Just reward people who do. Even if its only cosmetic - some pets/wings/portraits that only drop there.

7)This one is tricky. Right now endgame is GR - push as high as you can. But this is a LOOT game and ITEMS should be the your trophies and not your highest GR clear. Diablo saga is about finding the perfect gear. But i also enjoy the GR thing. With this beeing said, i suggest a rework of the leaderbord system. Make it like this:

You get points based on your gear level of perfection (0-100%)
You get points based on you GR clear.
Add both to get your position on the leaderboard.

Example: My Zunimassas items are really good (85% perfection) and i got to clear GR 70 with it. My LeaderBord points are 85+70= 155.

This way, the item hunt would be reborn and you can play competitive with any build.

Open for discution :)

PS:i know my english is bad and sorry for that. i play on EU if that matters.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/tXgOL-2474/hero/81415509
Any comments/ ideas?
11/16/2016 10:43 AMPosted by tXgOL
Any comments/ ideas?


Unfortunately on your post, no. None of that seems like anything that would ever be brought into the game, and I'm sure a lot of players would never want anything like that.
edit: LMAO diablo forum censors word "p-u-s-s-y"


Did you expect it wouldn't?

It's a highly offensive word to a very large percentage of the population. No matter how you're using it, or what community you're in.

That said: You shouldn't circumvent censoring, as that's a technically bannable offense.
11/13/2016 02:49 PMPosted by Gimpzor
When it comes to item drops, and making things easy, do you think Blizzard has spoiled us in D3? I can remember back when getting legendaries was something to be excited about, and getting an upgrade was even more exciting. Things also used to be a lot more difficult, so there was a sense of reward there when you would kill a hard uber boss or any boss for that matter and get a good item.

Now we are at a point where we expect legendaries to just rain from the sky, and as a result, you can start a season and be fully ancient geared with 800+ paragon in less than a month.

There is no feeling of reward anymore. Like I stated, I remember when uber bosses came out. If you attempted them on even torment 3 you had your hands full. Now it's just max difficulty in a matter of no time.

I believe that this is also what leads to some of the dreadful endgame. Yes I know we haven't had any new content in a while. But what does blizzard expect if you reach the endgame within a month or less of a fresh season restart.

Like I said, I believe the game has simply become too easy, and everything is basically handed to you, instead of having to work for it.


indeed, its what ruined the game. but people got upset about getting useless legendary when one finally did drop.

when in fact multiplayer shouldve been seeing many players with many different builds and rotations cause very unique legendaries dropped and are so rare.

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