Diablo III - The Successful Failure

General Discussion
I believe Diablo 3 was a Successful Failure. But why do I say this?

I say this because Diablo 3 was successful as an Action-Game, with a short-play-time. It appeals to casuals, because not much time is needed to "beat" the game and be exceptionally powerful. It's like the Fisher-Price version of "Lego Technic". It sold 30+ million units on name alone and the legacy (D2). 30 million units sold is a massive success in terms of revenue, even when the Diablo reputation has received a near "knock out" punch due to the unbelievably poor game design.

It was a failure, in terms of "Diablo", because it failed to be a worthy successor to Diablo 2, in basically every imaginable way. If Diablo 3 would have carried another name, no one would have complained to the extend everyone did since Diablo 3 launched. Let me elaborate:


  • 1. The whole development team changed. The majority of developers, designers, leaders of the previous games are no more. Matt Uelmen, responsible for music in the previous games, has also not created the music for D3. Those two factors are the main reason.
  • 2. Blizzard oversimplified Diablo 3. All the cool stuff from D2 was removed. Diablo 3 attempted to re-invent the "wheel", and failed at it in terms of "Diablo Legacy". I say this, because D3 is a decent action-game on its own, it just shouldn't be called "Diablo", then people would complain much much less. Further, Diablo 3 was designed from the start with multi-platforms in mind. This has inevitably damaged the "PC" experience, because developers must simplify things so console players don't get hand-cancer. (Examples are max 4 player limit, very limited amount of "architecture" and buildings are displayed at any given time. This is because they wanted Consoles and Low-End-PC's to be able to run the game.
  • 3. Blizzard failed to recognize what works in an ARPG like Diablo. This again is because the people that created D1 and D2, have long left Blizzard, and their version of Diablo 3 was canceled in 2005 because it didn't fit into Blizzard's Art Direction, as well as "failed" to match their "quality standards". The maps in Diablo 3 vanilla were static for the most part. This is the reason why Rifts and Grifts were implemented, because the developers realized that Diablo 3 was way to linear and static, and that the Director failed to address this fundamental flaw during the design phase and before the game shipped. Even to this day, Rifts and Grifts in Diablo 3 are still static, Diblo 3 simply pics static maps, in a random fashion to be loaded in Rifts and Grifts. The maps are actually still not randomly generated based on map-tiles, like it should be, where various tile types exist, such as boarder-tiles, path-tiles, environmental-tiles, quest-tiles, waypoint-tiles, lore-tiles, etc.Further, due to the simplification of Diablo 3's mechanics and general systems, a lot of the longevity was removed from "the journey".

    To make matters worse, the developers decided to implement WOW's leveling system into Diablo 3, because that is all they knew and had experience with. But a WOW-leveling scheme is misplaced in a game like Diablo. This is because Diablo is a game where the longevity and replay-ability come from the "journey", and not an "end-game" after you reach "max level". The developers realized that a WOW-leveling system (1-60 and then 1-70 with ROS), where everyone is at max level after a few hours of gameplay, was a terrible choice for a game like Diablo. This is why they implemented the Paragon System, but that system was just a "band-aid" on an amputated arm, and no replacement for a true character-leveling and character-building system, like Diablo 2 had.
  • Due to recent events i've became to the conclusion that Wyatt Cheng is to be blamed for the lacking core of diablo 3.

    Riot !12211
    D3's biggest failure in my opinion is the lack of skill builds and specializations.

    Every Wizard is the same wizard. You choose your passives and your hotkey bar. You then pick the very best set and go with whatever cookie cutter build is best at the moment. That is boring.

    In D2, I had many different types of wizards. The characters actually felt like they were mine. In D3 I just feel like every other wizard.

    Not sure the best way to fix this, but the game needs a lot more personalization to the characters. I suggested that we should have any element attached to the abilities ... at least that way we have some customized experience.
    11/16/2016 11:26 AMPosted by Zemini
    In D2, I had many different types of wizards.


    we could have that in D3 as well, if they finally drastically nerf the sets and support-legies....
    11/16/2016 10:55 AMPosted by TOPCommander
    I believe Diablo 3 was a Successful Failure. But why do I say this?

    I say this because Diablo 3 was successful as an Action-Game, with a short-play-time. It appeals to casuals, because not much time is needed to "beat" the game and be exceptionally powerful. It's like the Fisher-Price version of "Lego Technic".

    It was a failure, in terms of "Diablo", because it failed to be a worthy successor to Diablo 2, in basically every imaginable way. If Diablo 3 would have carried another name, no one would have complained to the extend everyone did since Diablo 3 launched. Let me elaborate:


  • 1. The whole development team changed. The majority of developers, designers, leaders of the previous games are no more. Matt Uelmen, responsible for music in the previous games, has also not created the music for D3. Those two factors are the main reason.
  • 2. Blizzard oversimplified Diablo 3. All the cool stuff from D2 was removed. Diablo 3 attempted to re-invent the "wheel", and failed at it in terms of "Diablo Legacy". I say this, because D3 is a decent action-game on its own, it just shouldn't be called "Diablo", then people would complain much much less. Further, Diablo 3 was designed from the start with multi-platforms in mind. This has inevitably damaged the "PC" experience, because developers must simplify things so console players don't get hand-cancer. (Examples are max 4 player limit, very limited amount of "architecture" and buildings are displayed at any given time. This is because they wanted Consoles and Low-End-PC's to be able to run the game.
  • 3. Blizzard failed to recognize what works in an ARPG like Diablo. This again is because the people that created D1 and D2, have long left Blizzard, and their version of Diablo 3 was canceled in 2005 because it didn't fit into Blizzard's Art Direction, as well as "failed" to match their "quality standards". The maps in Diablo 3 vanilla were static for the most part. This is the reason why Rifts and Grifts were implemented, because the developers realized that Diablo 3 was way to linear and static, and that the Director failed to address this fundamental flaw during the design phase and before the game shipped. Even to this day, Rifts and Grifts in Diablo 3 are still static, Diblo 3 simply pics static maps, in a random fashion to be loaded in Rifts and Grifts. The maps are actually still not randomly generated based on map-tiles, like it should be, where various tile types exist, such as boarder-tiles, path-tiles, environmental-tiles, quest-tiles, waypoint-tiles, lore-tiles, etc.Further, due to the simplification of Diablo 3's mechanics and general systems, a lot of the longevity was removed from "the journey".

    To make matters worse, the developers decided to implement WOW's leveling system into Diablo 3, because that is all they knew and had experience with. But a WOW-leveling scheme is misplaced in a game like Diablo. This is because Diablo is a game where the longevity and replay-ability come from the "journey", and not an "end-game" after you reach "max level". The developers realized that a WOW-leveling system (1-60 and then 1-70 with ROS), where everyone is at max level after a few hours of gameplay, was a terrible choice for a game like Diablo. This is why they implemented the Paragon System, but that system was just a "band-aid" on an amputated arm, and no replacement for a true character-leveling and character-building system, like Diablo 2 had.
  • there should have been a skill point system instead of six piece sets that is the the big issue with diablo 3. there is no type of progression in diablo 3 so there is no point in playing it. the developers took all the action RPG elements from the game and this team does not even care and is still closed minded and think that sets are how the game should play off of. diablo 3 is not gonna be fixed at this point its gonna be the same and the devs dont care what people want they dont get it at all. we should not be force to play curtain build or playstyles in an action RPG (six piece sets for an example). diablo 3 is done and blizzard does not want to invest any money too fix the game at this point and its sad.
    11/16/2016 11:26 AMPosted by Zemini
    D3's biggest failure in my opinion is the lack of skill builds and specializations.

    Every Wizard is the same wizard. You choose your passives and your hotkey bar. You then pick the very best set and go with whatever cookie cutter build is best at the moment. That is boring.

    In D2, I had many different types of wizards. The characters actually felt like they were mine. In D3 I just feel like every other wizard and I am only boring them.

    Not sure the best way to fix this, but the game needs a lot more personalization to the characters. I suggested that we should have any element attached to the abilities ... at least that way we have some customized experience.
    there is no skill point system that is the problem.
    Yes, all those issues such as lacking a proper skill point system, where you allocate points as you level up, are all a result stemming from "oversimplification" of the game.

    The fact that sets boost damage so ridiculously high, coupled with an un-capped difficulty system, have rendered all other items useless. Sets should be an alternative or accompany builds based on unique items, rares and Runewords or similar.

    Main stat for each class, as well as Vitality, CC, CHD on all items are another horrendous mistake in a game like Diablo. None of those affixes should exist in the affix-pool. They might work in WOW, but for a game like Diablo, it is the worst of all item-designs.
    D3 is a failure because isn't any more a ARPG, is just one more MMORPG
    11/16/2016 11:42 AMPosted by Alukat
    11/16/2016 11:26 AMPosted by Zemini
    In D2, I had many different types of wizards.


    we could have that in D3 as well, if they finally drastically nerf the sets and support-legies....


    To an extent, yes, but in D2 if you did have different types of Sorcs, it shows that you took the time and effort to build your own characters, whereas if that was D3, can you really say you built your own character when your character is 100% based on items randomly dropped?
    11/16/2016 12:39 PMPosted by DaFemaleBoss
    To an extent, yes, but in D2 if you did have different types of Sorcs, it shows that you took the time and effort to build your own characters, whereas if that was D3, can you really say you built your own character when your character is 100% based on items randomly dropped?


    yes
    Catering to consoles is killing games, and it seems to be all they're doing. Skyrim's menus on PC without mods are complete garbage, and turning everything into a port is making AAA releases run like crap on $2000 PCs. Diablo 3 was sort of early into this console-catering, but I wish they had kept their original values and said "f you consoles" when it comes to Diablo. I mean what's next, WoW on Xbone?
    Another day of crying about how trading, pvp and crappy itemization is gone.
    hello guys

    I often read the forum and i agree with both the happy and unhappy people arround. I want to be able to play this game as much as i want and still feel progression. The real problem here is Paragon levels (not the concept it self but the way its implemented). After 800P each point should only give you +1 mainstat.

    Here are some solutions i think might improve the overall gameplay and some changes that might just transform this game without a complete rework from developers:

    1) Death penalty: LEGENDARY GEMS should not last forever. When you die they should get damaged like normal gear. The difference is that you would not be able to repair them. Make gems last like 5 or 10 deaths and then they are gone. This way, we would use some builds not only optimized for dmg output but instead people would actually care about staying alive. Many different builds would come up and the play style would drastically change. GR progression woudnt be so mindless and GR farming would be much more intense and RISKY!

    2) Kanai's Cube: Why on earth do we get the maxed out legendary affix when we extract? If you find a 150% CoE you shoud get that 150% on the cube and not 200%. This way, farming normal rifts woudnt be just for GR keys. You actually would have more chances of geting more upgrades during a farming session (even if its just for the cube).

    2.1) Let us extract the SET bonus itself. Make it like we can chose to use 3 legendary powers or 1 set bonus on the cube. Build diversity would sky rocket.

    3) Normal gems are boring as F##K. Why would someone use a 23% health on the helm if insted we could use some legendary gem like " Double all %Health and LoH on you gear" or something else that would actually make some people build differently. There should be some really special gems for the offhand items also. And remember that L. GEMS don't last for ever anymore ( point1) :)

    4) Set dungeons are really cool. I dont get why people dont like them. They are the only places where you don't focus on killing all the mobs you can as fast as you can. I find some of them really hard. Why dont we get loot or materials or anything from them? There is some room here to add something new to the game.

    5) I think Blizzard did a fine job with goblins overall. There are many of them, they drop stuff and they even open portals. But there is not really an incentive to farm goblins over GR or Bounties. I think that gobs (and only gobs) should drop something unique. And dont Bull###t me with cosmetic stuff. Maybe something related to Followers (like really powerfull items for them, maybe even sets or maybe some new skills and runs for their habilities that they can learn)and this coud be the way to balance solo play vs group play - boost the followers. I really think that goblin farm should be a thing.

    6) I NEED SOME INCENTIVE TO PLAY CAMPAIN MODE. Please. Just please. Why is it so inneficient compared to adventure mode? I mean, dont force anyone to do it. Just reward people who do. Even if its only cosmetic - some pets/wings/portraits that only drop there.

    7)This one is tricky. Right now endgame is GR - push as high as you can. But this is a LOOT game and ITEMS should be the your trophies and not your highest GR clear. Diablo saga is about finding the perfect gear. But i also enjoy the GR thing. With this beeing said, i suggest a rework of the leaderbord system. Make it like this:

    You get points based on your gear level of perfection (0-100%)
    You get points based on you GR clear.
    Add both to get your position on the leaderboard.

    Example: My Zunimassas items are really good (85% perfection) and i got to clear GR 70 with it. My LeaderBord points are 85+70= 155.

    This way, the item hunt would be reborn and you can play competitive with any build.

    Open for discution :)

    PS:i know my english is bad and sorry for that. i play on EU if that matters.
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/tXgOL-2474/hero/81415509
    Pretty much.

    This is why the new owner of twinkles didn't change his recipe. You don't change what's already a huge success.

    If the new owner of twinkies copied diablos strategy they would have sold millions the first time around and once people had a bad taste in there mouth they wouldn't ever buy it again. That is the current state of the Diablo franchise right now.
    D3 is not an ARPG.

    In the end, it feels more like an uninspired 3D Gauntlet, with "set items".
    11/16/2016 03:03 PMPosted by Gogozerg
    D3 is not an ARPG.

    In the end, it feels more like an uninspired 3D Gauntlet, with "set items".


    True :(
    04/21/2018 07:11 PMPosted by TOPCommander
    11/16/2016 03:03 PMPosted by Gogozerg
    D3 is not an ARPG.

    In the end, it feels more like an uninspired 3D Gauntlet, with "set items".


    True :(


    go to PoE. It's not a perfect game, but really above D3 if you loved D2.
    04/21/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Hex
    04/21/2018 07:11 PMPosted by TOPCommander
    ...

    True :(


    go to PoE. It's not a perfect game, but really above D3 if you loved D2.


    I play POE but it doesnt scratch that "Diablo" itch :(

    I find the Diablo "setting" very unique (gothic medieval hopeless world that is overrun by creatures from the biblical hell), and no one does it as good as D1 and D2. It's a shame D3 failed to be "Diablo".
    11/16/2016 10:55 AMPosted by TOPCommander
    , Diablo 3 was designed from the start with multi-platforms in mind. This has inevitably damaged the "PC" experience, because developers must simplify things so console players don't get hand-cancer. (Examples are max 4 player limit, very limited amount of "architecture" and buildings are displayed at any given time. This is because they wanted Consoles and Low-End-PC's to be able to run the game.


    On D2 i can have bone spirit, bone spear, bone wall, bone prison, decrepify, amplify damage, summon fire golem, summon clay golem, iron maiden, corpse explosion... On my skill bar, on D3 i can have only 5 skills and a resource generator.

    11/16/2016 10:55 AMPosted by TOPCommander
    To make matters worse, the developers decided to implement WOW's leveling system into Diablo 3, because that is all they knew and had experience with. But a WOW-leveling scheme is misplaced in a game like Diablo.


    Well said. It killed replay value IMHO.

    11/16/2016 10:55 AMPosted by TOPCommander
    where everyone is at max level after a few hours of gameplay, was a terrible choice for a game like Diablo. This is why they implemented the Paragon System, but that system was just a "band-aid" on an amputated arm, and no replacement for a true character-leveling and character-building system, like Diablo 2 had.


    Well said. On D2 see someone lv 90+ legit is pretty rare. I an lv 86 on this ladder and consider myself "high level", there are few people above lv 90. Everyone is max level on D3.

    To illustrate how bad the situation of progression on D3 is immagine the following situation. A master necro talking to his appendices

    "Don't waste your time trying to improve your skills, only hold a sharp, heavy and big axe, only it by some unknown reason can make all of your animated servants and bone skills stronger and never drop the heavy axe otherwise your golem and skeleton army will become unable to kill the weakest imp"
    Ordan, a Master necromancer to his disciples in D3.

    The same applies to a Monk. Only the weapon(that magically disappear during animations) makes the difference between a novice monk and an "strong" monk.
    04/21/2018 07:11 PMPosted by TOPCommander
    11/16/2016 03:03 PMPosted by Gogozerg
    D3 is not an ARPG.

    In the end, it feels more like an uninspired 3D Gauntlet, with "set items".


    True :(


    Seriously, you bumped yourself from a year and a half ago?

    /slap.

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