Shield Bash Builds GR80+ (Unity & Block ver.)

Crusader
Ok guys i've been messing with the shield bash for the last days.
First of all, it's still bugged:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20752642281
1) Damage reduction is indeed strange. I see billions on d3planner even without APD stacks (just basic DR stacks and buffs). But in-game just some 200-400 millions.
2) Where the hell are Shield Bash stacks? The icon indicator is missing and there's NO WAY to tell how many stacks are there anymore. However i think this is because...
3) Flail of the Ascended completely ignores COE rotations (with any shield glare rune):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjn-OGbNzZM
4) Animation/stuttering/attack_speed problems. A lot of times i notice that i attack with random speed (with full wrath and at 5 roland stacks). Sometimes it's slow, sometimes i machinegun, sometimes i just stop attacking at all. No idea why.

However, when.. OR... IF they fix the animation and stacks ==> it will have the damage to breeze through 80s without augments.
Single target damage is good even without stacks, but for trash clearing and elites it's NOT EVEN CLOSE without stacks.
These builds are W-I-P (work in progress) and i will be updating them for the last days/weeks/months.
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/86736-physical-shield-bash-gr80-unity-version
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/86738-physical-shield-bash-gr80-block-version
These two setups were hard to fit in ONE, so i had to create two different ones. The Block version has more potential (25% more damage and toughness).

What are the pros and cons of shield bash?
Pros:
1) impressive single target damage
2) potentially massive AOE damage (not yet)
Cons:
1) drains wrath way too fast, requires mandatory RCR gear and skills
2) charging mechanics prevent from standing still. hard to get to Oculus Rings or avoid arcane rays
3) terrible healing, because of strange attack speed upside-downs and clunky animation
4) --> requires 2-3 layers of damage reduction, unlike Roland Sweeper. Even with 200 mill sheet toughness you can get rekd in GR75.
5) hard to fit zodiac in the builds, because you need massive damage reduction to survive
Hey Angry,

I got a question. How much sturdier will shield bash roland feel once they fix the DR problem with the set? Like you mentioned, shield bash builds feel awfully squishy compared to sweep builds.
Guessing you used your 1427 para sader?

It's important to list the paragon. 80 in season with one week of para is dramatic in progression vs a non season tricked out sader ready to go.

I haven't been overly impressed by the Shield Bash sader in season. Time will tell once they fix more of our stuff.
01/20/2017 01:06 PMPosted by Crayraven
How much sturdier will shield bash roland feel once they fix the DR problem with the set? Like you mentioned, shield bash builds feel awfully squishy compared to sweep builds.


First off, sweeper will still feel tankier after the fix, since both use Roland's.

Anyway fixing the bug will change it from ~52% reduction to 75% reduction, so its effectively double (it halves the damage taken 50%->25% total).
Hey everyone! I was messing with this last night and making changes with the goal of finding a good T13 regular rift build to just steed charge/shield bash charge between elites/champions and blow 'em up. So far, doesn't really seem better compared to just using my GR hammers build with steed charge instead of iron skin. And super not impressed compared to LON bombard, but I hope to never play that build again...

Anybody else trying to speed run T13s with this and having better results? Also, for this type of situation, is there even a point to using flail of the ascended/shield glare?
Using my build, but swapping out APD with Nemesis and iron skin or akarat's champion with steed charge leads to 2-5 min 60 GRs, thus T13 Rifts as well.

Keep in mind that CoE, Roland, and Flail are still bugged, so once those are fixed, glares will do a potential of 15x the current damage while you're about twice as tanky.

Also, my accessories are lackluster, IMO, so normally CoE would go in cube, but its one of the better rings I've found.

Once they fix the shield glare bugs so it stacks, many things will be better than Zodiac.

Optimally, you'd probably want an Endless Walk set, but I haven't found any decent rings for the set, and my hellfire amulet and rings are decent enough that they aren't worth replacing without optimal rolls on the Endless Walk set.

Finally, you can swap out String of Ears for Witching Hour, obviously. The helm you want Crit+shield bash on, but I can't currently give up the Vit.
Killing deep GR enemies, in terms of damage output, isn't a problem with shield bash builds. The lack of AoE will certainly kill your clear times though.

As long as Flail of the Ascended is bugged (which could be forever knowing Blizzard), your best bet is to keep Roland's stacked for the DR while you hunt elites.

The damage reduction on Roland's is also bugged, offering a little more than 50% when it should be 75%. This will also hold you back from pushing into the 90s.

Shield Bash pound damage is so silly high that you can go full bore with the DR effects. String of Ears, Unity, Esoteric Alteration, Mutilation Guard. You really have to stack various DR effects to survive as you progress deeper because you're smack in melee range. Bane of the Stricken is the only damage gem you'll really need. For now, put a Furnace in the cube weapon slot (or wear one). If they ever fix Flail of the Ascended, using it with a Final Witness will almost definitely be superior. I would suggest abandoning them and using Akkhan's Addendum with Furnace (wear whichever one is better and cube the other). Traveler's Pledge + Compass Rose + CoE + Unity for jewelry. Wearing a Unity and cubing CoE is technically better for the extra elite damage, but CoE is much easier to find with good rolls (I believe it always has crit chance and a socket). I've seen people swap Piro for a Hellskull or Akarat's, but even with AC - Embodiment of Power, you'll be hurting for Wrath with full cost Shield Bashes.

Other than that, pray that they fix some bugs sometime soon.
01/20/2017 10:12 PMPosted by WoonStruck
Using my build, but swapping out APD with Nemesis and iron skin or akarat's champion with steed charge leads to 2-5 min 60 GRs, thus T13 Rifts as well.

Keep in mind that CoE, Roland, and Flail are still bugged, so once those are fixed, glares will do a potential of 15x the current damage while you're about twice as tanky.

Also, my accessories are lackluster, IMO, so normally CoE would go in cube, but its one of the better rings I've found.

Once they fix the shield glare bugs so it stacks, many things will be better than Zodiac.

Optimally, you'd probably want an Endless Walk set, but I haven't found any decent rings for the set, and my hellfire amulet and rings are decent enough that they aren't worth replacing without optimal rolls on the Endless Walk set.

Finally, you can swap out String of Ears for Witching Hour, obviously. The helm you want Crit+shield bash on, but I can't currently give up the Vit.


Yep good thoughts. I ended up dropping Akarat's Champion for Steed Charge. Wasn't needed for T13 and was sucking up all the ORotZ cooldown procs but still was on cooldown too much to be useful. My character "YetiPally" has the full setup I was using right now. It works and it's fun enough to use for some death's breath/material runs in T13 rifts. Nice playstyle change from hammers. Hope the bugs get fixed someday.
01/20/2017 01:06 PMPosted by Crayraven
Hey Angry,

I got a question. How much sturdier will shield bash roland feel once they fix the DR problem with the set? Like you mentioned, shield bash builds feel awfully squishy compared to sweep builds.

Hi there!
I don't think it will be much sturdier. The charge animation is terribly slow and the rune of SB has tiny aoe. At the same time Sweep easily stands in GR90 now and heals itself with a half-screen swing.
SB will be much much glassier than Sweep if they won't fix the charge animation and attack speed
01/20/2017 01:24 PMPosted by RedRiot
Guessing you used your 1427 para sader?

It's important to list the paragon. 80 in season with one week of para is dramatic in progression vs a non season tricked out sader ready to go.

I haven't been overly impressed by the Shield Bash sader in season. Time will tell once they fix more of our stuff.

Yeah, right now i am actually struggling with GR75 with no augments. While i know for a fact earlier 80 could be done at around p1000 with much worse gear. There is no AOE damage now at all. When and IF they fix it it would be possible to get proper estimates. Right now even a 80 is a huge problem
01/20/2017 08:22 PMPosted by Snowshark
Hey everyone! I was messing with this last night and making changes with the goal of finding a good T13 regular rift build to just steed charge/shield bash charge between elites/champions and blow 'em up. So far, doesn't really seem better compared to just using my GR hammers build with steed charge instead of iron skin. And super not impressed compared to LON bombard, but I hope to never play that build again...

Anybody else trying to speed run T13s with this and having better results? Also, for this type of situation, is there even a point to using flail of the ascended/shield glare?

I have a speed build in mind for SB, but there is one HUGE problem: animation speed of SB. Right now it does not really charges like Raekor for example but instead... slides... or... "moonwalks" to the targets. It's painfully slow and hard to watch. It has the damage, but not the speed.
Akarath's Champion is indeed a candidate to drop in favor of steed charge. Without zodiac, cooldown is painfully long and the uptime is really low. But still 10 times second life across the rift, with current squishiness it has to be considered.
01/22/2017 01:56 AMPosted by Angry
01/20/2017 01:06 PMPosted by Crayraven
Hey Angry,

I got a question. How much sturdier will shield bash roland feel once they fix the DR problem with the set? Like you mentioned, shield bash builds feel awfully squishy compared to sweep builds.

Hi there!
I don't think it will be much sturdier. The charge animation is terribly slow and the rune of SB has tiny aoe. At the same time Sweep easily stands in GR90 now and heals itself with a half-screen swing.
SB will be much much glassier than Sweep if they won't fix the charge animation and attack speed


That is unfortunate, I already knew it wouldn't be as tanky as sweeper but I was hoping it felt a bit better. I don't see them fixing the shield bash animation anytime soon, maybe they should just swap shield bash for fist of heaven? It might work better with roland set than shield bash does.
ok more tests on Ghom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjn-OGbNzZM
results
1) Sometimes the glare properly stacks bash casts.
2) sometimes it shows very low numbers, completely neglecting all bashes done during physical COE rotation (or simply not counting some bashes properly)
01/24/2017 12:17 AMPosted by Angry
ok more tests on Ghom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjn-OGbNzZM
results
1) Sometimes the glare properly stacks bash casts.
2) sometimes it shows very low numbers, completely neglecting all bashes done during physical COE rotation (or simply not counting some bashes properly)


What it looks like from the numbers in your video is that it's taking the Shield Bash damage prior to the CoE buff rather than after. Meaning that whenever FotA calculates the actual damage output of Shield Bash for its stacks, it's occurs before the CoE buff is applied to that damage, which you see on screen.

You had 3 crits, 9b/9b/10b (I rounded one up that was 9.9b). Assuming a 200% CoE buff, that's 3x the normal damage, which means the original hit would be 3b/3b/3.3b. Throw in a couple non crits during the CoE cycle hitting for around 2b each, remove CoE buff and that damage is about 1.3b total. Add it all up 3 + 3 + 3.3 + 1.3 = 10.6b estimate, which is close enough to the 11b you got from shield glare.

So the problem seems to be plain enough that FotA doesn't calculate the CoE buff when compiling the damage of your last 5 shield bash uses.
01/24/2017 03:29 AMPosted by Tohki
01/24/2017 12:17 AMPosted by Angry
ok more tests on Ghom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjn-OGbNzZM
results
1) Sometimes the glare properly stacks bash casts.
2) sometimes it shows very low numbers, completely neglecting all bashes done during physical COE rotation (or simply not counting some bashes properly)


What it looks like from the numbers in your video is that it's taking the Shield Bash damage prior to the CoE buff rather than after. Meaning that whenever FotA calculates the actual damage output of Shield Bash for its stacks, it's occurs before the CoE buff is applied to that damage, which you see on screen.

You had 3 crits, 9b/9b/10b (I rounded one up that was 9.9b). Assuming a 200% CoE buff, that's 3x the normal damage, which means the original hit would be 3b/3b/3.3b. Throw in a couple non crits during the CoE cycle hitting for around 2b each, remove CoE buff and that damage is about 1.3b total. Add it all up 3 + 3 + 3.3 + 1.3 = 10.6b estimate, which is close enough to the 11b you got from shield glare.

So the problem seems to be plain enough that FotA doesn't calculate the CoE buff when compiling the damage of your last 5 shield bash uses.

I recalculated the numbers again.
If we remove the COE buff the last 5 numbers were:
749
2539/3=846
9821/3=3273
9907/3=3302
9383/3=3127

if we sum that = ~11297. So yeah it's EXACTLY the same number.
So it absolutely neglects COE buff.
And COE is a global dynamic multiplier. It means there might be tonn of other multipliers not working with FoTa.
01/21/2017 04:09 PMPosted by Snowshark
Yep good thoughts. I ended up dropping Akarat's Champion for Steed Charge. Wasn't needed for T13 and was sucking up all the ORotZ cooldown procs but still was on cooldown too much to be useful. My character "YetiPally" has the full setup I was using right now. It works and it's fun enough to use for some death's breath/material runs in T13 rifts. Nice playstyle change from hammers. Hope the bugs get fixed someday.


Have you tried swapping out Iron Skin for Steed Charge and then using Akarat's Champion - Rally? This might mitigate some of that cool down wait if you don't need the damage reduction from Iron Skin.
01/24/2017 07:16 AMPosted by CaiusMartius
Have you tried swapping out Iron Skin for Steed Charge and then using Akarat's Champion - Rally? This might mitigate some of that cool down wait if you don't need the damage reduction from Iron Skin.

I hadn't tried that but it would certainly be worth a test. The iron skin/steed charge combined worked well enough that I just went with that and didn't look back for T13.
I spent some time with this this morning. A little off-topic I guess but I looked at this mainly as a speed farmer as Snowshark seemed to be looking at. I'm not a leaderboards pusher by any stretch of the imagination. I've been mainly a Crusader since RoS dropped, so take any and all of my commentary with a grain of salt.

First, it has been a LONG time since I've Bashed. I also currently have about 1100 para and did not test any of this with those off so add more salt.

Second, did not really care for the Unity version. I like the block version much better. So my build is more geared toward that. However, I did swap out Ears for Angel Hair to gain a little more recovery.

Third, I dropped Akkarat's for Punish/Celerity (merely to jack up the Block chance and enhance my Bash damage.) Dropped Iron Skin for Steed to get around faster. I also swapped out Indestructible for Hold your Ground (for obvious reasons.)

Conclusion. So running GR 55 I'm taking virtually no damage. However, I'm also not killing stuff very quickly. Part of this is getting the play style honed since the last time I played a Shield Bash character which was probably 2014. I'm going to spend a little more time fiddling with this to see if some of the recovery/dr stuff I added since I ditched the unity is a little over kill and can I work back in more damage for the build. I think I'm going to try either swapping Unstoppable Force for Critical (I actually didn't notice Wrath being an issue so we'll see) or putting Akarat's - Rally back in instead of Steed and seeing how quickly I can move just using Bash.

EDIT: You can see my build on my character Holgar.
The D3 planner shows the shield glare damage as unbuffed by Roland 4 piece set, so it's 1/13.5 per stack. Is that a mistake or as intended?

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