Why not make this game difficult again?

General Discussion
So the developer's logic is that if the game is easy then more casuals will want to play and they sell more games. How is that working? When this game came out it wasn't easy to play on the top difficulty and obtain the best gear. That's what made me grind away for hours on end. It's gotten easier and easier to the point now of just handing us an entire set. What's the fun in that?

Look at it from another angle, think of some of the hardest games out there. (Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc.) All of those types of games get outstanding reviews because the people that review games are hardcore gamers. Those glowing reviews SELL MORE GAMES!

These idiot developers don't realize that the hardcores bring in the casual masses. Make the game difficult again and make drop rates much lower so people stick around because the hunt takes longer.
Get to grift 200
Really cool would be if we could play story mode in GR-levels and with a leaderboard for the time needed to complete the whole story.

With way better drops and XP than now in story mode, of course.
Remember when everything in act 2 killed you in one shot in Inferno difficulty and you had to use a DH with insane dps or wiz with the 35% shield or barb with insane defense to just get through? The game was a massive **** show when it was too difficult and zero fun.

Then you had mobs healing to 100% health if you died or worst enraging after x amount of time making it impossible to get through.
01/01/2017 04:41 PMPosted by Starbuck
Get to grift 200


GR 200 Fallen vs GR 80 Fallen aren't different from each other... they just have bigger numbers.

Difficulty isn't just about bigger numbers.
01/01/2017 04:47 PMPosted by Nightsbane
Remember when everything in act 2 killed you in one shot in Inferno difficulty and you had to use a DH with insane dps or wiz with the 35% shield or barb with insane defense to just get through? The game was a massive **** show when it was too difficult and zero fun.

Then you had mobs healing to 100% health if you died or worst enraging after x amount of time making it impossible to get through.


That kind of difficulty with the drop rates and itemization we have now would be good.

I liked the difficulty back then, some of the enrage timers were BS gear checks, but the real killer was going through all that challenge and your reward was complete and utter garbage, even the legendaries.

This game has always had an issue with the diffiuclty/reward ratio and for unknown reasons they believe that grinding the same easy mobs for hours on end for gear to help grind a little but faster = difficult and engaging gameplay.
01/01/2017 02:50 PMPosted by mm9niner
These idiot developers don't realize that the hardcores bring in the casual masses. Make the game difficult again and make drop rates much lower so people stick around because the hunt takes longer.

More like the game is ridiculously hard and never go near it again, like me and dark souls. It is a game not a dedication. In the beginning of D3 nothing ever dropped, why would I want to go back to those days?
D3V had exactly what you wanted and if they hadn't made loot drop just before Reapers hit the stands I would of been long gone
Maybe they need a checkbox for a survivor mode and make it like the old inferno, the gear you need for this act is in the next act
01/01/2017 04:41 PMPosted by Starbuck
Get to grift 200


Stat inflation =/= difficulty. Go look at the Season 1 rankings and see the GRift levels being cleared. Then look at Season 2. Then 3. The game hasn't changed, only the numbers.

So yeah. Get to GRift 200. Here's the spoiler for when you do: Nothing is different.
With their fixation on speed, old school difficulty would kill the game completely.

This is like the people wanting fewer drops.....when they get frustrated because those well rolled ancients never appear and they miss utility features because of this, these people will move on.....

Increasing the difficulty in an old school manner- in seasons at least, is not recommended.
01/01/2017 04:47 PMPosted by Nightsbane
Remember when everything in act 2 killed you in one shot in Inferno difficulty and you had to use a DH with insane dps or wiz with the 35% shield or barb with insane defense to just get through? The game was a massive **** show when it was too difficult and zero fun.

Then you had mobs healing to 100% health if you died or worst enraging after x amount of time making it impossible to get through.

sudden death mode sucked glad to see it gone.
I think they need to rescale the difficulty levels.

With the current powercreep that sets and legendaries provides, there's no reason to have to scroll through 4 pages of difficulties to get from one end of the scale to the other.

Either way, the game could do with another two Torment levels.

The second highest Torment level should be around GR75 and highest at GR90. A team of 4 with moderate paragons and un-augmented gear would find GR75 level Ubers a sufficient challenge. GR90 level Ubers would be where a team of 4 with fully augmented gear would probably have a decent challenge. Keep T13 where it is... T14 could double the mats dropped and T15 could double it again.

Of course, adding a Keywarden to Act 5 for special 3 wave Uber battle would be sweet as... start with Duriel and Andariel, then Azmodan and Belial, then Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto. Could make it so that from T11 there's a 10% chance of a new mat that guarantees an ancient item when added to reforges. Chance of dropping this mat increases by 10%.

Ubers need to be a challenge again.
I think the game needs tougher bosses with random and new abilities. Another Uber fight would be nice, something like Realm of Destruction and have to fight Baal and his minions. Another hellfire item would be nice, my idea would be a craftable socket for jewelry. Add Diablo as a buffed rift boss and add some gore effects.
Why am I getting down votes? Story mode needs some love. Feelsbadman. :*(
01/01/2017 04:47 PMPosted by Nightsbane
Remember when everything in act 2 killed you in one shot in Inferno difficulty and you had to use a DH with insane dps or wiz with the 35% shield or barb with insane defense to just get through? The game was a massive **** show when it was too difficult and zero fun.

Then you had mobs healing to 100% health if you died or worst enraging after x amount of time making it impossible to get through.
Yes but I also remember selling a few 2 OS Manticores for a few hundred bucks. XD
The issue is that since the first day the only core challenge to the game has been raw content scaling. This makes the difficulty a one-dimensional mathematical gear check that isn't an interesting or engaging hurdle to overcome by itself. The only thing that has changed since the pre-nerf Inferno days is that it went from being a series of high progression walls to being an endless staircase.

This is why the devs have had to use a competitive format of leaderboards in order to make grinding to the next arbitrary GR number relevant.
01/01/2017 10:00 PMPosted by Hackusations
The issue is that since the first day the only core challenge to the game has been raw content scaling. This makes the difficulty a one-dimensional mathematical gear check that isn't an interesting or engaging hurdle to overcome by itself. The only thing that has changed since the pre-nerf Inferno days is that it went from being a series of high progression walls to being an endless staircase.

This is why the devs have had to use a competitive format of leaderboards in order to make grinding to the next arbitrary GR number relevant.


I think that Blizzard was unable to follow the classic ARPG endgame: clearing the campaign in the hardest mode over and over again but with tons of builds and experiment with own creations, too much work to maintain the game difficult and flexible at the same time so they took the decition of removing the challenge with power creep and overpowered sets and focus the game in GRs, a closed environment without diversity to have more control with a small team.
01/01/2017 04:47 PMPosted by DoomBringer
01/01/2017 04:41 PMPosted by Starbuck
Get to grift 200


GR 200 Fallen vs GR 80 Fallen aren't different from each other... they just have bigger numbers.

Difficulty isn't just about bigger numbers.


and yet noone is there.
I think the game is difficult enough on T13, honestly it's a bit excessive.

Think about it, if you're not using a very specific cookie cutter build then you're not efficient at running it and you probably have a high success rate of dying.

T13 is fine for end game difficulty as it stands, the problem is, there aren't many viable options to run it effectively... only a few.

It seems easy because you stole someone else's build who took the time and effort of putting it together.

If you had to come up with a build on your own with no help from any one or the internet that could completely dominate T13, would you be able to do it? Doubtful...

It'd probably take a lot of trail and error, months of work and you'd probably be missing key components to make it all synergize properly... or you'd make minor mathematical mistakes and it wouldn't cap out at it's max potential.

What you have going for you is the internet bub... someone else did all the work, you leeched off of it and claim it as your own. Anyone can go look up a build and put it together in a matter of minutes if the gear is available.

I've been running a WD build that pushes GR 80 right now and I didn't have to work for it at all... just got lucky and found the pieces I needed... Without that build I'd be clamoring trying to figure out how to effectively run a pet doctor... I'd probably still be using fetishes or some garbage.

Try running T13 without LoN or a 6 piece set and see how well that goes for you... It'll be as tedious and difficult as hell... pun intended. The game isn't that easy really, the internet ruins it for you and you let it... then complain about it.

It's the same reason Blizzard keeps adding more difficulty levels... People around the world figure out how to exploit the game with cheap builds, share the knowledge and well, there you go, cookie cutter builds and "Game is too easy and boring now"

WELP, time to add 3 more difficulty levels and nerf those gears. It's a never ending battle you can't win, you can't balance out RPG games, it's like trying to prove God exists, it's not happening.
I'm looking at a lot of artificial difficulty gates being suggested here, or 'do gr 200' or 'dont use set items' etc which isn't really getting to the core of the issue.

Most posters here agree that difficulty by never-ending number scaling isn't particularly 'fun'. So, the natural alternative is to have nominal increments where the mobs change or behave differently.

Perhaps instead of simply having affixes do more damage, every 5 levels would unlock enemy monster perks - increased projectiles/affixes/new types of affixes or some other mechanics. Balancing this might be difficulty because say you had them popping up in increments of 5-10gr levels, then the first of those 5 in the next pracket will be significantly different to the next 4 in that bracket until the next modifiers pop up. Obviously you would couple this with different rewards.

Nevertheless, I think it could be an interesting method to put something new into the game.

Some other mods I can think of off the top of my head:

Double elite packs/2 yellow in pack
+1/2/3 affix projectiles
+1/2/3 extra minions
+1/2/3 affix types (arcane/molten etc)
All elites are bosses
Double boss spawn
Boss does bonus damage/extra affixes/lower cooldowns on their abilities
Normal mobs reflect damage (maybe force alternatives to area damage with this one - probably not very pleasant though)
Normal mobs are electrified
Normal mobs have molten
Shields are half as effective
Healing from skills is reduced/affects enemy mobs
Cannot walk through units
Molten affixes cast vortex (ayyy lmao)
Ranged/melee damage reductions or elemental dmg reductions (force different elements/shift meta for particular levels - probably would need to have runes changed so they actually compete with each other).

Anyone have any other ideas for stuff like this?

edit: Alternatively this could be kind of like a map system like in PoE where you augment the greater rifts for different rewards - make them drop DBs or whatever, IDK.
01/01/2017 02:50 PMPosted by mm9niner
These idiot developers don't realize that the hardcores bring in the casual masses. Make the game difficult again and make drop rates much lower so people stick around because the hunt takes longer.


maybe, but those casuals need something to do for a long time:
-just give them NS T10 as endgame and that part is solved

then the rest can seek hard gameplay in HC, paragon, seasons, grifts...
and many more hard things to do :p

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