Juggernaut

General Discussion
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01/15/2017 11:31 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
These elites take 2x longer to kill than any other elite in the game and don't reward any compensation for extra time spent.


This is being overblown a bit. Or at the very least, misstated.

They take 30% more dmg baseline. For Stricken users with disabled BotT gem, it's hardly 10% additional time to kill, which is tolerable, and still very much worth killing for 4 globes.

The real issue is Caesar's Momento, Hammer Jammers et al. that make the elites take not 2x but 5x time to kill.

I haven't personally verified that these CC-dependant items aren't working, but since treasure goblin stun immunity prevents Caesar's buff, I think they are probably broken and definitely would result in elite skipping.
01/11/2017 05:58 PMPosted by Tyvalir
Totally fair feedback! I'm happy to pass this on and thanks for sharing it.


The WoW forums called. They need a community manager like you.
01/16/2017 12:50 PMPosted by Vox
01/15/2017 11:31 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
These elites take 2x longer to kill than any other elite in the game and don't reward any compensation for extra time spent.


This is being overblown a bit. Or at the very least, misstated.

They take 30% more dmg baseline. For Stricken users with disabled BotT gem, it's hardly 10% additional time to kill, which is tolerable, and still very much worth killing for 4 globes.

The real issue is Caesar's Momento, Hammer Jammers et al. that make the elites take not 2x but 5x time to kill.

I haven't personally verified that these CC-dependant items aren't working, but since treasure goblin stun immunity prevents Caesar's buff, I think they are probably broken and definitely would result in elite skipping.
In a 4player wiz group for speeds, you're losing 60% additive from strongarms, 10% crit chance, 45+% multiplicative damage with 105+ Trapped. 10% Longer to kill? Try 100-150%. Please don't spread miss-info on threads like this. I kill 100's of these things a day, I know how much longer they take to kill. A bad rift with multiple packs of these elites takes several mins longer in 90-95. 95+ they would be an instant skip no questions asked. You must be doing GR -80's or something, to not notice how much longer they take to kill.
01/16/2017 10:22 AMPosted by NeoLegend
Juggernauts are simply stupid affix.

Yesterday, I had 3 of them in 1 rift. Of course I failed to clear the rift in time.

Wasted time and effort.

Oh you poor babies, you have an over reliance on CC and now you are having a cry because now some creatures are immune
If you morons had your way all GR would be a straight line to the next level with nothing but zombies in it and everything has the same damage and defensive capabilities because you just have to be able to get number 1 position on the leaderboards, naked if you so desire, otherwise it's not fair and there is no choice in leaderboards
01/16/2017 06:42 PMPosted by Steve
01/16/2017 10:22 AMPosted by NeoLegend
Juggernauts are simply stupid affix.

Yesterday, I had 3 of them in 1 rift. Of course I failed to clear the rift in time.

Wasted time and effort.

Oh you poor babies, you have an over reliance on CC and now you are having a cry because now some creatures are immune
If you morons had your way all GR would be a straight line to the next level with nothing but zombies in it and everything has the same damage and defensive capabilities because you just have to be able to get number 1 position on the leaderboards, naked if you so desire, otherwise it's not fair and there is no choice in leaderboards


Who is the moron here, talk to some random idiot who don't do 85+ grift
uggernaught removes the dmg boost for gems effects or set effect that add more dmg to monsters that are under CC.. very fun on a hammerdin
They put JUGGERNAUT to force players to read affixes!

just skip him!

Crusaders, pray for akarat!
01/11/2017 05:58 PMPosted by Tyvalir
01/08/2017 08:53 PMPosted by rahl
OK I got it - immunity to cc means a whole bunch of procs that raise damage or debuff won't work.

Just wanted to clarify for those who haven't seen the new Juggernaut affix in-game or read our recent [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/20426802"]patch notes[/url] that this is correct. As with all enemy affixes, some will be easier for certain builds to handle while the inverse is true for others.

One of our goals when adding new enemy affixes is to broaden the types of enemy variety you see in the game and the kinds of challenges you'll face. This helps achieve both of those goals while (hopefully) encouraging you to think more tactically in certain cases as a CC-dependent character.

01/08/2017 08:53 PMPosted by rahl
Damn! Will have to actually look at affixes now - it would be nice to have a visual indicator on the elite.

Totally fair feedback! I'm happy to pass this on and thanks for sharing it.


Can you please implement parts of Unburied AI into Juggernaut brains? The part of AI that makes Unburied always follow us. It would make perfect sense. Why elite that is immune to all CC would not follow us? Juggernaut should chase us and try to kill us. Is not that the main reason why he is immune to CC?

Off topic: I see problem in this game with path finding. I know you had problems with this in early development but it could still be much better. With proper path finding many Greater Rift layouts would be much better.
01/16/2017 12:50 PMPosted by Vox
01/15/2017 11:31 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
These elites take 2x longer to kill than any other elite in the game and don't reward any compensation for extra time spent.


This is being overblown a bit. Or at the very least, misstated.

They take 30% more dmg baseline. For Stricken users with disabled BotT gem, it's hardly 10% additional time to kill, which is tolerable, and still very much worth killing for 4 globes.

The real issue is Caesar's Momento, Hammer Jammers et al. that make the elites take not 2x but 5x time to kill.

I haven't personally verified that these CC-dependant items aren't working, but since treasure goblin stun immunity prevents Caesar's buff, I think they are probably broken and definitely would result in elite skipping.


That might be true in lower GRs (<80 solo <90 group), but in higher ones, they take considerably more time to kill, even with the area damage WD strategy. You're spreading wrong info.
Happy fishing everybody!
01/17/2017 01:53 AMPosted by Notrius
01/16/2017 12:50 PMPosted by Vox
...

This is being overblown a bit. Or at the very least, misstated.

They take 30% more dmg baseline. For Stricken users with disabled BotT gem, it's hardly 10% additional time to kill, which is tolerable, and still very much worth killing for 4 globes.

The real issue is Caesar's Momento, Hammer Jammers et al. that make the elites take not 2x but 5x time to kill.

I haven't personally verified that these CC-dependant items aren't working, but since treasure goblin stun immunity prevents Caesar's buff, I think they are probably broken and definitely would result in elite skipping.


That might be true in lower GRs (<80 solo <90 group), but in higher ones, they take considerably more time to kill, even with the area damage WD strategy. You're spreading wrong info.
Seconded. Totally giving wrong info. Juggernaut is an automatic skip for most of the top builds and the worst part is that it can ruin grifts easily if you get 2 juggernauts. At a bit higher levels you just restart and try again until you will not face juggernauts.

As if fishing wasn't bad enough now we can add it to the list: Ghosts? Quit. Winged Assassins? Quit. Elite Rift with like 2 packs next to each other? Quit. Cave? -> Is the mob type anything other than undeads? Quit. Barracs? Can you count the number of mobs on your screen using your fingers? Quit. Do you have less than 1 minute to kill a boss in a GR80+? Quit. Is it an Act V map with Act V mobs? Quit. Perdition, Agdinox or Blighter as Rift Guardian? Quit. Yellow Elite has Juggernaut? Quit.
At least it's challenging.

Why play a boring racetrack with no challenge? Leaderboards don't mean a thing anyway.
01/17/2017 01:53 AMPosted by Notrius
01/16/2017 12:50 PMPosted by Vox
...

This is being overblown a bit. Or at the very least, misstated.

They take 30% more dmg baseline. For Stricken users with disabled BotT gem, it's hardly 10% additional time to kill, which is tolerable, and still very much worth killing for 4 globes.

The real issue is Caesar's Momento, Hammer Jammers et al. that make the elites take not 2x but 5x time to kill.

I haven't personally verified that these CC-dependant items aren't working, but since treasure goblin stun immunity prevents Caesar's buff, I think they are probably broken and definitely would result in elite skipping.


That might be true in lower GRs (<80 solo <90 group), but in higher ones, they take considerably more time to kill, even with the area damage WD strategy. You're spreading wrong info.


I did qualify my statement to include stricken. Double mob hp does not equal double time to kill. It's more like 33% more time to kill. For a gen monk, juggernauts are not substantially harder to kill. It hasn't been that bad for me on gen monk at 100-105. The difference is small enough that I haven't noticed TBH.

Stricken is the main factor people are omitting with these overblown '100% more time to kill' statements. They are categorically false for the common scenario where stricken is used and fights are long.

At lower difficulties where stricken is not used, time to kill is low, strong- arm uptime is high, then sure, they may take twice as long to kill. Skip away.

Since any push uses stricken, and since most pushes are based on trash aoe killing and elite skipping anyway, juggernauts do not make much difference in that meta. Not saying they aren't a problem, just that the problem is being oversimplified and overstated.
01/17/2017 09:29 AMPosted by Vox
01/17/2017 01:53 AMPosted by Notrius
...

That might be true in lower GRs (<80 solo <90 group), but in higher ones, they take considerably more time to kill, even with the area damage WD strategy. You're spreading wrong info.


I did qualify my statement to include stricken. Double mob hp does not equal double time to kill. It's more like 33% more time to kill. For a gen monk, juggernauts are not substantially harder to kill. It hasn't been that bad for me on gen monk at 100-105. The difference is small enough that I haven't noticed TBH.

Stricken is the main factor people are omitting with these overblown '100% more time to kill' statements. They are categorically false for the common scenario where stricken is used and fights are long.

At lower difficulties where stricken is not used, time to kill is low, strong- arm uptime is high, then sure, they may take twice as long to kill. Skip away.

Since any push uses stricken, and since most pushes are based on trash aoe killing and elite skipping anyway, juggernauts do not make much difference in that meta. Not saying they aren't a problem, just that the problem is being oversimplified and overstated.


It is different when you play nonseason with 2800 para. But come try those 100+ with 1k para genmonk and you will skip them too. Obviously the strategy is to kill trash and accidentally an elite or two but they still take way more time. Stricken should be used by 1 dps (95+) all the time.
Why are the devs so obsessed with nerfing crowd control?
I have a question. Are juggernauts not immune to paralysis or something? I get most of my damage from the Manald Herald ring, so I kind of expected that I'd have major, major problems with juggernauts, and they'd take too long to kill. If I get bad paralysis luck, a yellow mob takes me 25 seconds to kill, it only takes 1 second if I have great luck, and I average 4.

So naturally, I assumed it would take me 25 seconds to kill a juggernaut, but I still sometimes just obliterate them, and kill them in 1 or 2 seconds. I'm positive they're a juggernaut btw. What gives: Are they immune to paralysis or not? Does Manald Heal not actually check if the target got paralyzed, and just adds 14000% damage whenever a hit "should" paralyze?
nothing worse than a contraption, that forces players to choose between evading a mob, or fight it, with frustrating slowed or, stopped progress; this time CC added

-i already skip all nonsense mobs with mass HP and zero gain, that forces me to slow or stop if i would engage them
01/16/2017 08:43 PMPosted by bloodravens
Who is the moron here, talk to some random idiot who don't do 85+ grift

You are because everything I said is true, the only GR leaderboard chasers want are full of zombies, no turnoffs on a rift because we might have to backtrack and lose time, and if it isn't like that you complain that you have to fish GRs to get what you want, and then come here and complain it isn't exactly what you want, and you have to waste time doing rifts to get keys to waste doing GR.
For the record I have been in GR 85, the difference between you and me is I will do an 85 and tackle what is given me. You on the other hand only do 85+ only if it has zombies in it and is an automatic reset otherwise, All that attitude shows me is that you really can't do 85+ because you only do them if it is a certain map and certain creatures on it otherwise it's a the GR 85+ that I am doing is too hard for me to do , and can't handle it, so reset. Same with your I should be able to wear what I like and still win, If there was any kind of truth to that statement, why don't we see indicars vs F1 they are the same type of car, why don't they race together
01/19/2017 06:06 PMPosted by nswhorse
Why are the devs so obsessed with nerfing crowd control?


I don't have a problem with them making CC itself weaker, but it undermining a non-trivial portion of your damage mulitpliers is dumb as !@#$.
Tyvalir:
Logically that's great that there is more strategy, but there is in fairness a substantial difference between having enemies that are more difficult to kill and resilient/resistant against some things versus something that almost cannot be killed.

Perhaps consider thatsome enemies are harder to kill without certain things rather than not at all if the main killing property is not present? :)
[Based on some people's feedback]

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