[2.4.3] (S9) Manald Heal Builds + Mechanics

Wizard
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01/22/2017 10:40 PMPosted by Contragor
The no MH proc happens when I have no ele% on gear. So, the APS has no issues, but it seems that you do have to have at least one piece of gear with lightning % damage on it for MH to proc. Can someone please confirm?


Yes.

With Vyr2, Archon is the element of your highest elemental damage. With no elemental damage on gear, Archon defaults Arcane damage (regardless of what rune you put on your bar). And therefore won't proc Paralysis.

Even though Manald Heal procs don't benefit from Elemental damage, if you are using Tal/Vyr Archon, you NEED the highest elemental type on your gear to be lightning. Otherwise Archon attacks won't trigger Paralysis/Manald Heal.
01/22/2017 07:55 PMPosted by Contragor
Also, my first question, is Lightning % on ammy and bracers working with MH?

Based on latest tests, no, elemental damage % on gear will not buff your MH proc damage.
01/22/2017 10:40 PMPosted by Contragor
Think I got it now. The no MH proc happens when I have no ele% on gear. So, the APS has no issues, but it seems that you do have to have at least one piece of gear with lightning % damage on it for MH to proc. Can someone please confirm?

If you're running Tal/vyr or just Vyr archon, you need to run with at least some lightning elemental damage % on gear to tell the set that it needs to assume that element.

When you go into archon, you'll then be casting lightning damage.

Archon gets cheated a little since they will have to equip an affix that isn't really buffing their damage all that much.
Round 2 Testing confirms Davlok's findings, and I also did some additional tests to flush out any doubts. Note: did not bother testing the diamond in weapon though.

Testing Video:
  • https://youtu.be/9tSVPne8vKo

Testing Method:

Listing approximate max damage noted from MH procs alongside each test, and short summary of result. Also posting video timestamp link next to each test. Baseline includes the OID bonus, so when testing OID, I just didn't use it, and checked for drop in damage, rather than an increase.

All tests kept stats as close as possible to: 1.1M sheet damage with MW:D, 1.0M without / 9500 INT / 1677-2160 Weapon damage / 41% CHC / 260% CHD.

Results:
  • Baseline Test (Comparison for all other tests): 00:53 - 174M
  • Trapped (lvl 96 gem, 43.80% dmg bonus): 02:33 - 245M - Working with MH.
  • Zei (lvl 85 gem, 10.80% / 54.00% bonus): 04:08 - 208M (consistent with 20 yrd range) - Working with MH.
  • Orb of Infinite Depth: 05:03 - 144M - Working with MH.
  • Slow Time(Time Warp (15%)): 06:34 - 197M - Working with MH.
  • Black Hole (Spellsteal), Greater or equal to 10 enemies affected (~+30%): 09:06 - 236M - Working with MH.
  • Taeguk, Magic Weapon, Sparkflint, Unwavering Will (approx +80% combined): 10:33 - 290M - Working with MH.
  • Stone of Jordan (+26% Elite Dmg): 12:27 - 217M - Working with MH.
  • Stricken (lvl 89 gem, +1.69% per stack): 14:56 - 437M - Working with MH.
  • Deathwish (+35% roll): 17:14 - 263M - Working with MH.
  • Pig Sticker - Beast Damage (+26%): 18:38 - 221M - Working with MH.
  • Pig Sticker - Human Damage (+15%): 19:50 - 200M - Working with MH.
  • Elemental Exposure (+40%): 20:51 - 242M - Working with MH.
  • Powerful (BoP gem) Elite Damage (+15%): 23:41 - 173M - NOT Working with MH.
  • Powerful (BoP gem) Multiplier (+20%): 25:49 - 199M - Working with MH.
  • Toxin (+10%): 26:38 - 190M - Working with MH.

Note: "Working with MH" means that the item or skill bonus DOES increase MH proc damage.
Please check this :

Does MH work properly when enemy is stunned ,frozen or blinded by another skill?

Because someone said when enemy is stunned ,frozen or blinded by another skill or item, MH does NOT damage them.
What about Unity's elite damage?
This is going to be kind of silly to test, but I wonder if if you had Furnace actually equipped, Manald would work with it. Also, Sun Keeper. I wonder if its elite damage actually works with Manald. IAS aside, Sun Keeper might be a decent Manald option lol.
God damnit.Once again we have to do Blizzard's QA job and find all bugs ourselves. This is simply embarrassing, and i am so sick of it :(
Much props for Cratic as he can still do it..
@Cratic,
I looked at your list of buff conditions and I have to say that I was confused by "Powerful Elite Damage DOES NOT increase MH proc damage" and "Powerful Multiplier DOES increase MH proc damage" for about 15 minutes. It might be because it's the morning and my brain is not working, but I took Powerful to mean itself, the adjective, rather than the legendary gem Bane of the Powerful. The word does ambiguously fit there.
So basicly best way to go is:

Lightning roll on one piece of gear for archon since it convert damage dealt by it to lightning element ,preferred roll is on bracers because amu can roll 1000 int
Weapon is tricky Cratic can you confirm :
Does starfire buffs mh ?
Does sun keeper buff elite damage?
Does slorak madness buff archon beam and if yes does it buff mh ?

Outside of archon : does lighting hydra proc mh and if yes does 2 hydras from serpent sparker as well?
And if possitive does enforcer works with it and ias from tasker and theo ?

Sorry for any mistakes i made im not native English speaker
We've already confirmed half of your questions. Starfire does buff MH, Slorak definitely would not because we've confirmed that anything that buffs the SKILLS that TRIGGER MH do NOT increase MH damage.

Sparker and Hydra would be relatively pointless to test because they do not do enough attacks per second to warrant heavy investigation anyway, compared to AT or the archon beam.

Realistically the best reason to roll Bracer is probably because it's much easier to get a bracer with elemental damage than an amulet with it (and the other two desirable stats).

Sun Keeper is a good question.

Let's keep his workload reasonable here, read through the thread before you ask pointless things.
New to Wiz mechanics here... Does anyone know if channeled skills like Archon disintegration or AT:SD apply Stricken stacks with each tick? If not, how fast are stacks applied?

Thanks!
I didnt see anyone specificity ask this, unless i missed it in the thread somewhere.

Does shame of delsere actually effect the rate at which Manald heal/paralysis can proc?

I remember a similar situation where wyatt said that stricken wouldn't be effected by items like this that don't change your sheet IAS which is why im wondering if blizzard kept this type of thought when designing new items and im im actually wondering if MH works with it or not.

11/18/2015 12:24 PMPosted by Wyatt Cheng
Bane of the Stricken - Updates now with your overall attack speed but NOT with the attack speed of specific skills (bracers of the first men). This is something we're investigating but no promises and we may leave the design as being based on your overall attack speed.
Adria, I've finally read through your post fully and I want to thank you for testing these out and confirming results. I'll add the info for Dovu to the OP here soon.
01/21/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Adria
TL;DR: Dovu and CC resistance don't affect MH procs.

01/21/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Adria
This indicates MH procs cannot be affected by Dovu Energy Trap.

01/21/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Adria
This suggests that MH procs are not affected by CC resistance.


Edit: By the way wouldn't Dovu not increasing duration for MH be considered a bug?
01/23/2017 05:17 AMPosted by Angry
QA job

Funny you mention that..

I really do appreciate the suggestions everyone is giving for testing. My test method is still a bit rough, but IMO good enough for not having the proper tools to make it an easier task.

I'll look into some of the suggestions. I realized I've missed a few things in round 2 as well, so I'll get to those soon.
01/23/2017 07:57 AMPosted by Mortus
Does slorak madness buff archon beam and if yes does it buff mh ?

Slorak's Madness legendary property only increases damage of the Disintegrate skill. There are currently no lightning runes for that skill. Archon's Disintegration Wave is a separate skill entirely.

I think it would be amazing if we were to get a lightning disintegrate rune in a future patch though, it would open many options.
01/23/2017 09:27 AMPosted by Angel
Does shame of delsere actually effect the rate at which Manald heal/paralysis can proc?

Good question. Based on my testing, the proc rates of MH when used with Electrocute and Shame of Delsere were in line with including the IAS bonus from Shame.

I've only tested with electrocute for this, but based on that test, yes, Shame does affect the rate at which MH can proc. I'll have to add this to the OP.
01/23/2017 08:25 AMPosted by Shooter
New to Wiz mechanics here... Does anyone know if channeled skills like Archon disintegration or AT:SD apply Stricken stacks with each tick? If not, how fast are stacks applied?

Stricken attempts to apply every tick but may be prevented by ICD due to spells with speed coefficients being out of sync. This means spells like AT:SD and Disintegrate Wave will stack stricken less quickly than other spells would be able to.

Read more from the below:
05/17/2016 08:37 PMPosted by Cratic
I'm pretty sure stricken attempts to apply damage per attack or per tick to the first target hit by that skill. However, since there is an ICD most likely related to inverse attack speed (1/APS), skills that use a coefficient other than standard attack rate can end up ticking during the time of the ICD. This introduces a delay that lowers the amount of stricken or MW:D stacks possible for that skill.

This means that archon punch would likely be more consistent than the disintegrate wave for stricken stacking.
01/23/2017 05:57 AMPosted by nslay
It might be because it's the morning and my brain is not working, but I took Powerful to mean itself, the adjective, rather than the legendary gem Bane of the Powerful.

Would confuse or be confused by strong cryptic wording again?

I've fixed the post to say : (BoP gem)
01/23/2017 08:03 AMPosted by StoleOwnCar
Sparker and Hydra would be relatively pointless to test because they do not do enough attacks per second to warrant heavy investigation anyway, compared to AT or the archon beam.

Sadly, I confirm that. Two lightning hydras with T&T have big problems with proccing MH. They may not proc MH at all.
Electrocute without even the Shame of Delsere worked way better for me.

I don't know which is worse. This or Arcane Orbs spitted by Arcane Hydra not being buffed by appropriate legendaries just like the skill.

I may switch to some Diablo 1 mod to actually have fun with hydras.

[edited] Hydras probably don't proc Paralysis.
amazing work!

i will say that I have also noted while in some group play my MH procs drastically diminish. I started running away from party so I could attack virgin enemies. i could kill them twice as fast or better when attacking solo. Was speed 70s runs.
Round 3 testing in.

Listing approximate max damage noted from MH procs alongside each test, and short summary of result. Also posting video timestamp link next to each test. Baseline includes the OID bonus.
  • https://youtu.be/zV3_1Yq5lFE

All tests kept stats as close as possible to: 1.1M sheet damage with MW:D, 1.0M without / 9500 INT / 1677-2160 Weapon damage / 41% CHC / 260% CHD.

Baseline Test (Comparison for all other tests - Note: this test was performed in round 2 testing): 174M
  • Sunkeeper (+17% Elite Dmg): 00:00 - 202M - Working with MH.
  • Strongarms (+30%): 01:54 - 218M - Working with MH.
  • Audacity (+30%): 03:24 - 225M - Working with MH.
  • Power Hungry (+30%): 05:07 - 225M - Working with MH.
  • Unity (+15% Elite Dmg): 05:56 - 200M - Working with MH.

Note: "Working with MH" means that the item or skill bonus does increase MH proc damage.

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