Back to manual stat and skill increases?

General Discussion
Anyone else down to go back to manually increasing stats and skills like in D2?
You mean so I need to make a new character if I want to try out a different combination of stats/skills?
How long have you been playing D3?

Probably (way) too late for what you suggested mate...
Will not happen as it would mean a major revamp of the skill system, something they will not do since they don't even seem to be interested in balancing the current game in terms of sets and non.
Allowing to completely swap out your character's skills is one of the best features of Diablo III.
02/05/2017 05:26 PMPosted by nand
You mean so I need to make a new character if I want to try out a different combination of stats/skills?


You are too tied to the old ways. You could always have the old fashion reset stats/skills NPC or Button, or you could simply have a +/- button beside each skill/stat to adjust at your will.

I really miss the Skill tree and the stats requirements for some items, as much as I miss having a character that could do damage even with a wrong or no gear at all.
Assigning Attribute Points: yes!
Assigning Skill Points: no!


Customizing my char via a reasonable attribute system (a better version than the D2 att system) is extremely fun, but regarding the skill system I think that D3's approach is superior to D2's, because runes allow for more distinction between skills and builds (at least in theory).
02/05/2017 05:48 PMPosted by Arveragus
Allowing to completely swap out your character's skills is one of the best features of Diablo III.

Yet it's one of the main culprits for so many awful aspects of the game.

1. Without consistent player-driven progression, progression is instead entirely reliant on an obscenely overdone RNG-layered system, which in return has led to laughably high drop rates hoping to mitigate RNG's inherent inconsistency.

2. Being devoid of any progression value, the lackluster skill system has removed all value from the journey, and settled for a WoW-inspired "endgame" at max level. Paragon was an attempt to address that issue, but what value does a system that simply yields all the stats hold within a genre that's supposed to thrive on options and meaningful experimentation? None, of course. Grinding for 5 more mainstat points is not exactly the epitome of creativity.

3. Hopelessly accentuating RNG's unforgiving nature, despite gimmicks such as smart loot, the mystic, or the plethora of power creep uninspired "features" they've kept bolting into the game hoping to artificially extend it's underwhelming longevity.

4. Without control over our own progression, builds are determined by whatever we find. This has been vastly exacerbated by the absurdly rigid set design philosophy since RoS. No cohesive combination of legendaries is able to match a poorly rolled set's performance, and even with LoN, maybe 3 or 4 builds are able to compete. Abysmal panorama for an ARPG.

It's not even about permanence, but about control of a character's progression. Having to remake a character just to try something new was an unnecessary inconvenience, but striping every ounce of control over our own progression from our hands doesn't help at all either. Think about the way Grim Dawn does this. The system allows you to freely allocate about 80% of your skill points with the exception of class core investment. This includes devotion points, so even within any particular class combination you have a lot of flexibility to experiment with so many builds, while not completely trivializing the value of a new journey. It's an exceptionally well thought compromise, unlike D3's artificially padded skill system out of which literally more than half of the skills/runes aren't even useful.

If these runes were more than irrelevant color changes (because of course elemental damage is nothing more than color variation since they were too freaking lazy to actually code some mechanical impact behind each element), it would actually be a great concept, but it sadly is not.

I'd honestly rather have a solid list of 10 skills that are actually useful than a hundred out of which maybe 25% are actually appealing only to claim there are trillions of combinations without actually delivering any depth to support that number. Hell, they could even make it so runes build over the core skill instead of just turning it into something else. You know, building the skill? Yet another way in which GD's system is light years ahead of D3's. Not only is every single skill viable in the long term, but they are coherently laid out in such a way as to promote specialization and experimentation with a strong sense of control over your own progression. D3? Well it's just a boring predefined pattern. Yay for boredom!
Doesn't the Paragon system do this to a certain extent?
02/05/2017 08:23 PMPosted by Urazz
Doesn't the Paragon system do this to a certain extent?


It's what it was supposed to do but you can rush to Paragon 800 and it adds entirely nothing other than a bulk of stats.

There was some quote somewhere I wish I wrote down but it describes how I felt nicely; That having thousands of options and only a few of them are viable, you really don't have thousands of options. You only have those few.
02/05/2017 01:30 PMPosted by Thad
Anyone else down to go back to manually increasing stats and skills like in D2?


It will take more than just giving players the ability to click arrows to add any worthwhile and captivating interaction to D3. you can click these things all day, the problems are the stats and skills themselves....

Paragon points I'm sure has taught us at least that....
Although paragon points were a sizable improvement ideologically, over the Core of vanilla D3. the new system was constrained by D3 inescapably, and any "players can now click" system deployed would be just as born right into the waiting constraint.
02/05/2017 06:45 PMPosted by clueso
Assigning Attribute Points: yes!
Assigning Skill Points: no!


Customizing my char via a reasonable attribute system (a better version than the D2 att system) is extremely fun, but regarding the skill system I think that D3's approach is superior to D2's, because runes allow for more distinction between skills and builds (at least in theory).


What would be the purpose? In D2 there was about 4 different builds.

ES sorc? Str to ear gear, max energy.

Are you any other kind of dueler? Str to wear gear. Get max block if you're not a sorc, necro or sin, rest into vit.

Every other dueler? PvE? Str to wear gear, rest in vit.

Are you a dex bowzon? Str to wear gear, max dex. <This was an extremely bad set up outside of 1v1 bow duels. Even in PvE.

GG gear usually required little to no str investment, and most duelers either had specific MB set ups or just didn't take it at all. Pretty much every build was max Vit. With any sort of end game gear you would at least have 400 vit on lvl 90 characters.

You get to assign your paragons, either you build tanky, or you deal damage. Since this game isn't capped on Mob HP like D2 was going full damage would be optimal even if there was a more intricate attribute system.

It's a hack an slash game, not an MMO, not a TBRPG. Wanting to drag more out of it than killing !@#$ is fruitless. There will still be an optimal set up, it will not add any depth of game play. Unless of course what you really desire is the illusion of choice in which case I would suggest grabbing one of those choose your adventure Goosebumps books.

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