Rhykkers interview with Brevik on PRIMAL Ancients

General Discussion
This should be seen by blizz dev. team.
ALso consider ideas from vid...

(Been playin d3 since d1 when i was 8years old love the games so far even the d3 yeah)

INTERVIEW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft85XKRtbvY
It's not rocket science to understand why overdoing RNG only leads to massive frustration. What Gazillion did in MH with the shards of eternity was indeed a great idea the D3 design team should definitely take notes on. Ideas along those lines have already been suggested quite a bit since the PTR went up with Primal ancients, using ancients as currency. Hell, they've even been suggested since ancients were implemented.

Frankly, at this point I can't even understand why they went that way...again. It's like they didn't learn from vanilla and/or enjoy shooting themselves in the foot. There's a reason why they had to come up with smart loot, the cube, the mystic and other features to mitigate the negative impact their abuse of RNG priduced. Excess randomness is never a good thing, even less when you've already gutted the skill tree system that actually allowed players to progress consistently without RNG completely screwing everything. Brevik is indeed correct about there being a fine balance when it comes to randomness, which is something the D3 team has completely disregarded thus far.

Even worse, right in D3 they already had some good feedback on the grind for the cosmic wings. It's just a cosmetic item, but people grew obsessed over it and a lot of them ended up completely jaded at the grind. For that sort of item, I suppose it's fine, but it most definitely isn't for items that can actually yield a tangible performance boost for your character. Ancient items are already awful, considering they are more likely to roll completely wrong than not. It's extremely frustrating to burn tons of materials and time doing boring bounties trying to re-roll a damn ancient and see it roll like !@#, and this new tier will be even worse, needlessly. I just wish these people stopped living in a freaking vaccum and actually made an effort to understand this.
Highly Rated
Blizzard isn't going to listen. They've already made this decision, and they won't back down from it. They're notoriously stubborn when it comes to stuff like this. They hate to admit when they're wrong.

Just kick back and enjoy the forum-show when 2.5 goes live. Be ready for thread after thread complaining about primal drop rates and cries for different crafting recipes to make them, guaranteed stats, etc.
02/03/2017 05:07 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
Blizzard isn't going to listen. They've already made this decision, and they won't back down from it. They're notoriously stubborn when it comes to stuff like this. They hate to admit when they're wrong.

Just kick back and enjoy the forum-show when 2.5 goes live. Be ready for thread after thread complaining about primal drop rates and cries for different crafting recipes to make them, guaranteed stats, etc.


I have some popcorn and hot chocolate ready for that.
Also nice post count: 9669. #Yolo brother, amen.
02/03/2017 01:14 PMPosted by MicroRNA
I suggest a new recipe for the cube. When primal ancients are salvaged, a “primal soul” results. The cube will use X number of primal souls (something that is fair like 25-50 primal souls) + a legendary item to convert it to its primal equivalent. This would keep it in line with Blizzard’s desire to keep its players grinding ad nauseum and will make those primal ancient drops of blackthornes, exarian sword, tyrael’s might less likely to result in throwing your computer out the window. Also, this recipe does not require people to grind bounties all day just to get material for reforging.
Most speed farmers get 100+ legendary items an hour, that is 1 primal per hour on average.

That means they need to create a way to make sure that 1 primal ALWAYS has meaning.

Currently, with skill modifiers, that will rarely be the case, as you will just stash it until you get more Primals.

THAT is the bad philosophy. Primals in and of themselves are great for a loot hunting game. 1% drop rate rivals the rarest but strongest items in D2 or other ARPG games. So make sure that when we get that 1% drop, IT MATTERS!
strange, i never was against the RNG, as a relaxed grinder

-i would however, when the devs make the best gear unavailable under T10 with that RNG (drop, kadala, cube,...)
Brevick is right of course, it is what it is though, we don't have Brevick, we have Wyatt...
They need to rehire Brevik. ATM he is working with GGG, however being GGG they are not having him work on the actual game (lol). Its like Hiring Bruce Lee to stack shelves.
02/03/2017 05:31 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Most speed farmers get 100+ legendary items an hour, that is 1 primal per hour on average.

That means they need to create a way to make sure that 1 primal ALWAYS has meaning.

Currently, with skill modifiers, that will rarely be the case, as you will just stash it until you get more Primals.

THAT is the bad philosophy. Primals in and of themselves are great for a loot hunting game. 1% drop rate rivals the rarest but strongest items in D2 or other ARPG games. So make sure that when we get that 1% drop, IT MATTERS!


The problem is not primals per se, if you think about it as below:
An ancient + level 90 augment = primal + level 50 augment except for weapons

But the weapons are a huge deal. A 20-30% difference in DPS is big. For many builds you need a specific weapon or 2.... we need a way to offset the rng.

Of all drops, what percent are weapons? Of what drops, what is percent is the weapon (or 2) that is ideal for a selected build? Than 1% of these drops are primal and hopefully doesn't roll like crap (see Yang's recurve as to an rng nightmare)
As those above, I would have no problem with Pancients if they were always useful. Just bumping up the numbers by 30% and sticking another rarity level on is just number inflation, and is very boring.

As it is, ALL legendaries are somewhat useful, because they can be salvaged for souls, and those souls can be used to re-roll that one rare weapon you have until it is decent. Ancients diminished this by having only 10% of re-rolls or items being useful, so the excitement at finding a useless Ancient item and salvaging it for only 1 Forgotten Soul is disappointing. Pancients multiplies this by 10 in its current design, as any useless Primal Ancient found feels like a waste to salvage, and the time grinding for it seems wasted and frustrating.
OMG RNJesus is the funniest !@#$ I've ever heard.
There is so much RNG in this game it has infected WoW as well... like an nasty little STD.

Now here's some more RNG for your RNG, and some RNG on the side seasoned with RNG and an RNG sautéed in RNG.
The RNG isn't the problem. Chase items are good especially in a game like D3 where the loot hunt has been so heavily trivialized.

The problem is...
- It's more absurd scaling.
- Progression is only scaling.
- It's the same item.
- It's the same content.
- It's the same challenge.

It is like D3 is a man-child that never grows up.
I don't see to much insight from Brevik's words in this video than those from a regular player. Or may its just I don't agree with his opinion. For me, in terms of systems like item drops which are intrinsically designed with randomness, luck-dominated system is much more interesting to me than a flat progression-based system.
02/03/2017 07:02 PMPosted by FenixTheDark
For me, in terms systems like item drops which are intrinsically designed with randomness, luck-dominated system is much more interesting to me than a flat progression-based system.


I agree with you here, but for me this was only the case in games with multiple avenues of progression like D2 and POE along with the ability to trade. I love getting rare items in those games, and at the same time I'm ok with not finding those extremely rare items because I'm constantly accumulating other items that I could trade to obtain them eventually. The reward loop is constantly fulfilled and in D3 that loop breaks rather quickly.

The Dev's stated this game was meant to be played in a short period of time and abandoned for other games until something new came along. Primal ancients is consistent with a game that has the ability or intention to keep people interested for long periods of time. That design philosophy is not consistent with many other core components of the game, at least not for me. I feel like there just isn't enough depth in any direction that improves longevity and adding ancients, primals, optimus primals, or super duper primal ancients doesn't address that.
Does joe that plays 35 thousand hours in 1 month, never sleeping, never socializing, snorts powdered caffeine, ordering in for food and only going to the mailbox to get his free money check from the government deserve more items in D3? NO.

Does Joe that has a family, that has actual friend commitments, not internet "Friends", has a full time job, supports a family and kids at school full time and can only play ocasionally deserve more items? NO.

But both types of gamers deserve something from the devs we currently do not have, that is, consideration.

What do gamers of all types deserve? Consideration from the devs that they are not just looked upon as mushrooms or 4 legged jackasses with a carrot on the end of a stick stuck to their back and dangling out of reach forever.

Devs need to get a clue first and foremost. They need to look back at past mistakes and stop making the same ones over and over as they are doing now.

They need to look at their delivery schedule for expansion, major content patches and deliver loot accordingly across the board to ALL gamers so that gamers can enjoy these items before they become obsolete and the next patch just keeps new players or low time players further behind the content curve.

There is absolutely nothing stopping these devs from doling out anything in this game over the course of an expansion or major content patch that would hurt anyone. There are folks that will never see primal anything, let alone a nice ancient set simply because of the crap RNG game these devs created.

If a dev cant make a delivery schedule (translation: finding loot) for items to players of all types in a meaningful manner that does not make the items obsolete or unobtainable up to and throughout the next "big thing" then those devs should not be working.

The next bit is sarcasm but still very true. "Its like these devs think gamers are mushrooms, constantly eating dev !@#$ and being kept in the dark and they only care about money"
02/03/2017 07:02 PMPosted by FenixTheDark
I don't see to much insight from Brevik's words in this video than those from a regular player. Or may its just I don't agree with his opinion. For me, in terms systems like item drops which are intrinsically designed with randomness, luck-dominated system is much more interesting to me than a flat progression-based system.

I agree, yet the game itself is not that interesting to many people. To me D3 is now boring. What the devs came up with lately are really repetitive, QoL changes/additions they are, but repetitive and boring nonetheless.

Ancient legendaries are no different than legendaries. So are Primals to Ancients. Nothing new.
02/03/2017 07:29 PMPosted by Graill
They need to look at their delivery schedule for expansion, major content patches and deliver loot accordingly across the board to ALL gamers so that gamers can enjoy these items before they become obsolete and the next patch just keeps new players or low time players further behind the content curve.


so back to wilson's d3, where the most rarest top items were only marginally better than the way more common 2nd or 3rd best item.
Brevik was right on the money.

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