Why is there no build diversity for Diablo 3?

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We call it Standardization. u realize that as some1 above said about DH, well DH is so bad and pathetic that they needed to add a buff of 40K to make it worthy of playing. there is no builds in this game, it is a SET game, u have one set to compete with other players and hit ranks. u have no choice, u can use word (build) if u play diablo2 PoE . in diablo2 theres a build for pvp barb, but with same char i can switch his gear to gold find, or pvm. in diablo3 Standardization overcome, u must use the travel pledge set cuz it has a big offensive and defensive buff, if u use maras and zodiac u are out of meta, so again there is no build no diversity. stop defending blizzard's "philosophy".

back to facts.
game is all about greater rifts, and many players hit a lvl over 2000-4000 to make it competitive, they added these buff. we said in the past that Grifts are meaningless and they will take game to ruin. it will kill diversity cuz compete u have and u need a meta.
ppl dont like to hear that, most of them are casual, and even that have other meaning on diablo3 as many things.
casual is the guy who have all his life on game sucks, CASUALLY a char get a super buff and now he concentrate every thing on it, until the moment come and that buff isnt enough to go ahead.... they just want to keep the game alive, indeed diablo3 is already in the CCU (Critical Care Unit). they will hurl the necromancer (for sure will be !@#$) every thing the Dev team do is just make things going worst.
the cause of that is clear is obvious ...the "Dev team" have no conception of game playing, they just keep adding buff to game, and from this moment, there will be a day that some buffs will reach 100K... i hope you ppl who read this remember this words cuz it gona happned.
incompetent puny minds ... the only change i wish for game is: this "dev TEAM" as a loot they get their Letter of resignation ....

this game takes to no where ........
04/11/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nephalem
04/09/2017 09:37 PMPosted by Keyblade
Your not forced to do anything
You can play however you like
LoN has massive amounts of different types of builds per class. Sets are the designed pushing builds

Your simply QQing that every build isnt GR9000 viable


shutup kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL get mad . You know im right. Its the same complain every time

People refuse to Accept that Sets are End Game and LoN is design for Fun builds , some might end up being push builds most arnt. Thats the game. Its not changing anytime soon especially due to the commitment and time thats been put into sets
04/11/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Keyblade
04/11/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nephalem
...

shutup kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL get mad . You know im right. Its the same complain every time

People refuse to Accept that Sets are End Game and LoN is design for Fun builds , some might end up being push builds most arnt. Thats the game. Its not changing anytime soon especially due to the commitment and time thats been put into sets


ok .... no 1 is forced to use ne thing ...
so plz take the endless walk set and ur ceremonial knife from ur fire bat dude and open a lvl 85 Grift and go solo !!!! man stop stop
@shurgosa - that was a long post and I still don't quite understand what you are trying to get at but I'll try.

People are upset that sets have things like plus 30,000 damage increase and that seems crazy overpowered. I was showing via math how with LoN giving 14,000 damage increase alone it's not hard to have comparable damage to sets. Other people were upset about these percentage increases not me. I could care less. I don't know why you thought I cared so much about it. I was responding to other people complaints.

Is that your idea of diversity? one sets's compiled damage percentage lines up with the other 10 sets?


A set that allows you a lot of freedom with build choice lets you do comparable damage to other sets? Yea that helps with diversity in the competitive scene. Diversity doesn't mean equal. There is diversity, you can do whatever you want. Just don't expect to be competitive with a lackluster or bad build. Yes there are bad builds. For their to be good builds by definition there are bad builds.

The rest just seems like either "why can't I do whatever I want and be on top of leader boards" or "I don't know how to make a cold wizard build and can't be competitive"

Why do you force us to use a top-tier build because you buffed sets so much that you suck without them?


No one is forcing you to do anything.

Why are so many legendary items useless due to these limitations? 99% of drops are instant trash.


This is my favorite. You know, because a big part of this game is loot and if whatever you needed just dropped immediately you would run out of things to chase after.
04/11/2017 09:06 AMPosted by weintraub79
04/11/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Savage
I think build diversity is as good as its ever been actually. I was checking top 10 monks a few days ago to see what people were doing and saw 3 completely different builds (r6 gen, inna, duo gen)


Mmmm. Here is the problem, i´ve seen several players in this thread who think that build diversity is fine because each character has 2 or 3 builds for endgame content..... really???

Guess what, two or three builds (most defined by sets) are faaaaar away from real build diversity in an ARPG, i´m talking about that we should have al least 10 builds plus variants per class to start a good experience and an open field to constant experimentation, as simple as that, that´s the whole purpose of an ARPG.

But as i said earlier in this thread, we can´t have build diversity if there is only one endgame mode, we need more options to make use of more items, it is time to think outside the GR box.

And please, lets stop with this "you can play with every build you want in T6" BS, just stop it... it is NOT fun and it is stupid because you can enter god mode at any time, there is no point, there is no real challenge by doing that. Period.


04/11/2017 09:36 AMPosted by Zeddicuus
Exactly it, there should be more viable builds available for endgame, but there really isn't. Minor variations of the same builds exist. I've seen a couple different versions of Tal/Vyr Archon. That's not quite what people wanted.


I like you guys.

I mean, I'll take two or three builds per class over just one. But even three isn't a lot. Minor variations are okay too, I mean it's something. I'm not saying I'm satisfied, but it's at least better than it has been in basically ever. I still want more though... Maybe it's wrong to expect more?
04/11/2017 05:36 PMPosted by Nephalem
04/11/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Keyblade
...

LOL get mad . You know im right. Its the same complain every time

People refuse to Accept that Sets are End Game and LoN is design for Fun builds , some might end up being push builds most arnt. Thats the game. Its not changing anytime soon especially due to the commitment and time thats been put into sets


ok .... no 1 is forced to use ne thing ...
so plz take the endless walk set and ur ceremonial knife from ur fire bat dude and open a lvl 85 Grift and go solo !!!! man stop stop


Consider thats how the "Set" is designed why the hell would i do that.
I know full well that , that particular set is designed and optimised around those items.
Modifying the build could result in a lower Gr. But if i do , do that. Im ok with that.
Im dont expect every build to be GR85+ clearable.
Seems to me like you do.....LOL
04/11/2017 09:58 PMPosted by Dtmayo
@shurgosa - that was a long post and I still don't quite understand what you are trying to get at but I'll try.

People are upset that sets have things like plus 30,000 damage increase and that seems crazy overpowered. I was showing via math how with LoN giving 14,000 damage increase alone it's not hard to have comparable damage to sets. Other people were upset about these percentage increases not me. I could care less. I don't know why you thought I cared so much about it. I was responding to other people complaints.


Well it looks like you will never understand sadly......

You just can't help but cough up more damage percents and act as if that's what the OP is missing when he started this thread, and that it should be good enough...
when in reality its you who misses the entire point of the whole discussion and why It would even be started....

and don't kid yourself into thinking that I care about what you personally think, to some awkward degree; I care about "the overall quality and betterment of the game", and will call out hopeless little statements as I see them, when I am interested in doing so.
all these people saying "no build diversity"... did you even play D2?

In D2 the Sorceress had 3 builds:
1. Blizzard build (best)
2. Fireball build (good)
3. Frozen Orb build (viable, but not nearly as good)

Everything else was more than subpar. And the same pattern repeated for all classes; you had a couple of good builds and everything else was trash.

Nowadays, D3 is the same. You have 2-5 viable builds per class, with one build clearly being the best, and then anything else is subpar.

Same exact "build diversity"

Yes, I wish there was much more diversity in D3. I personally wish ALL skills, runes and passives were viable... but no one can argue that diversity decreased from D2 to D3.
04/11/2017 11:22 PMPosted by Wyrmheart
In D2 the Sorceress had 3 builds:
1. Blizzard build (best)
2. Fireball build (good)
3. Frozen Orb build (viable, but not nearly as good)

Wrong.. you should add Ligthning build aswell.. which was probably the strongest. Then there was the melee build.. Enchant your sword and you could melee the Ubers etc.

But it is true that D2 after 1.10 had maybe less Hell viable builds than pre-1.10.

The thing is they added synergies which basically made more skills viable in theory. But in reality you had to spend huge amount of skills to get the max damage potential out of them. Then also you had to get really good skill boosting items.

The monster HP went up quite a lot in 1.10 which required you to deal much more damage. In multiplayer games only a few skills could dish out enough damage to make it efficient and those skills needed to be fully synergized.

Basically Blizzard sorc had to spend majority of skills on Blizzard damage leaving only few extra points elsewhere. When before 1.10 you could put 20 points Blizz and 10-15 points cold mastery and then you had like 90 points to spend elsewhere. Dual and even Triple elemental sorcs were common because of immunities and they were viable even in 8 player hell.
Play PoE. Everything is viable in that game.
04/11/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Keyblade
04/11/2017 10:01 AMPosted by Nephalem
...

shutup kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL get mad . You know im right. Its the same complain every time

People refuse to Accept that Sets are End Game and LoN is design for Fun builds , some might end up being push builds most arnt. Thats the game. Its not changing anytime soon especially due to the commitment and time thats been put into sets

Yes but you get to the End Game instantly because of the best items (sets) drop so easily.

If they removed the huge damage bonuses of sets.. we would have LoN all the time by just equipping normal Legendaries.

Sets are fine.. but if the huge power creep was removed there would immidiately be more options because all the items would be more closer to each other in power.

They could also make the more powerful items more rare. But then people start whining.
@shurgosa

I told you I could care less about percents. I was responding to earlier people and not directly to op. I didnt "cough" them up. I don't think you understand logic. You brought up percents when responding to me. Did you cough them up?

You are making nonsense. This is why I don't understand you. I really don't know what you are trying to get at. Can I not respond to other people on this topic? Is that what you are trying to say?

I never said you had to care what I think. If you don't care stop responding. If not please have actual arguments and clear/logical statements rather than accusing me of being beyond comprehension.
04/11/2017 11:22 PMPosted by Wyrmheart
1. Blizzard build (best)
2. Fireball build (good)
3. Frozen Orb build (viable, but not nearly as good)

Sorc is the worst example for pve builds.
Fire could go hydra/meteor/enchant.
Ice had blizzard or frozen orb.
Lightning is lightning.
Now the other classes far more restrictive at either 3 or 4 builds.

Also,item scaling....Way back in the day a 6 socket Cruel Colossus Blade + suffix was the best weapon. Compare that to a Breath of the Dying/Death/Oath Zerker Axe or Grief Phase Blade. And no caster wep remotely compared the Heart of the Oak.
04/11/2017 11:22 PMPosted by Wyrmheart
1. Blizzard build (best)
2. Fireball build (good)
3. Frozen Orb build (viable, but not nearly as good)

Sorc is the worst example for pve builds.
Fire could go hydra/meteor/enchant.
Ice had blizzard or frozen orb.
Lightning is lightning.
Now the other classes far more restrictive at either 3 or 4 builds.

Also,item scaling....Way back in the day a 6 socket Cruel Colossus Blade + suffix was the best weapon. Compare that to a Breath of the Dying/Death/Oath Zerker Axe or Grief Phase Blade. And no caster wep remotely compared the Heart of the Oak.

04/11/2017 04:32 PMPosted by Nephalem
We call it Standardization. u realize that as some1 above said about DH, well DH is so bad and pathetic that they needed to add a buff of 40K to make it worthy of playing. there is no builds in this game, it is a SET game,

Legit off topic question. Why are you posting here with some tact, while other threads are straight volitile.
04/12/2017 04:32 AMPosted by Dtmayo
I told you I could care less about percents. I was responding to earlier people and not directly to op. I didnt "cough" them up.


04/10/2017 08:09 AMPosted by ARTPOP
If you calculate it for having all ancients which is crazy in itself, it's only about a 1400% damage boost. And you lose out on not being able to use any other set even the compass rose set. Therefore the damage is gonna be greatly underpowered compared to 6 set characters. I mean tal Tasha's gets up to 3000% damage increase.


04/10/2017 08:33 AMPosted by Dtmayo
Yea right off the bat that seems vastly different and less powerful but it doesn't take everything into account. that 1400% increase is only coming from the fact you have full ancients and nothing else. You are much more open in what gear you can have. If you find a way to double your damage within you gear affixes you are already at 2800%. Multiplicity is a really hard thing to calculate.


That's you responding to the OP, caring about percents, and using them to curb the critique. I know its hard for you to understand, I will try to help you though.
You should try path of exile, they got plenty of cold builds.
04/12/2017 09:44 AMPosted by Sterben
You should try path of exile, they got plenty of cold builds.


That doesn't address the concern the OP has about not being able to create a cold build that is reasonably on par with your average set build (not top tier folks, just your average build) in terms of damage or at least being T13 viable without being forced to use set rings, which may prevent the OP from using the rings he wants. From what I can understand the OP is not concerned with GR progression, it really just sounds like he wants to be able to at least run T13 Rifts with a cold build, so GR 60 sounds like a reasonable goal.

The damage difference from using a well designed LoN build to a well designed set build can still be significant in most cases. There are some exceptions of course, but there are not that many.

I can have all kinds of awesone synergies at work with abilities and legendary, but if I don't have that sweet +xxxx% damage mulitplier going on the build will suck no matter what. If every build I design HAS to run LoN in order to be T10-T13(GR60) viable, those builds are only getting that far because of the set they're using. Maybe I want to use other rings that complement my build. I can only use 1 amulet to complement a build so it gets the damage boosts needed to run past Torment 6.

Everyone understands there will always be a 'best build' for those that want to really push GR progression, but it seems as though those progression players fail to recognize that not everyone views GR as the only progession in the game. Not everyone wants to push GR as far as they can, therefore not everyone wants to use only the 'best builds' for their class. The issue is there are very few builds that can enter T10-T13 without running a set (LoN is a set, just one that allows a bit more customization with most of your gear). No matter how well I design my build with legendary gear, if I don't use LoN I can't push into high Torments. That's not me not understanding gear or how the math works, that's a blatant difference in damage.
Diablo II had the same problem, and the root cause was Skill Synergies. Cool idea from the start with what I'm sure had good intentions, but it ended up narrowing the game down to only several builds that were Hell-viable (and even fewer capable of fighting Uber Diablo and the Pandemonium Event).

I think these sets, like Synergies, had good intentions initially. Before we got to where we are now, if you remember, almost no one wore full sets, because the set bonuses were awful, and it was better to have one of the scattered BIS legendaries for each item slot. Maybe a build or two would spring up like the ones that used the Discipline regen on Legacy Nat's, but it was rare. They updated them to give sets some more time in the spotlight. Problem is, they swung the pendulum too far, and now anything that isn't a seasonal-buffed set is "worthless".

I think the game would be much healthier overall if they had done incremental changes, instead of sweepingly game-changing ones. If they had only included the effects and not the ridiculously huge weapon damage percentages, we'd probably have a lot more build variety and the game difficulty / GR leaderboards would fall in line better. Notice how they had to add more Torment levels because of how out of control the power creep can get to? That's doing it backwards. Balance your gear around the difficulty, not the difficulty around the gear.
@shurgosa you just proved what I was saying. He the original poster ( not original post) was upset over the "crazy" damage increases built into sets. I don't care because it works out in the end. Can i not explain to people how things work without being called out for blasphemous "caring" about percentages and math.

What is your definition of caring? Is it explaining how processes work? Can I not rebuttal what other people say? I have addressed build diversity in my other posts. You just don't ei th er agree with it or failed to see other posts I have wrote and only worry about me "caring" about math .

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