Primal Yang's Recurve without Discipline

General Discussion
hello ....
first i feel so sry for that, u surly wanted to kill someone at that moment " no body mentioned"
well... as most of u know the Dev team have their reasoning slow and they took too much time to do right things... if they did ever yea?
i noticed that these Pancient are not a Proll with weapons and amulets.
we should pray for them a lot until they realize that,
perfect amulet roll is
main stats, CHD,CHC, and socket. perfect is from perfection with no Defects something that dosent need to be changed or Scrambled.
but we have a serious situation here. prime ancient weapon with vitality, and prime ancet amulet with armor is not a perfect roll or even stats, cuz even in a normal amulet armor and vitality are not welcome in DPS case. the pledge amulet for example become a main iten in many "build" in diablo3 in 99.99% the roll is !@#$ty. and is there ne DPS player wants to use a talrasha or pledge amulet with vitality or armor.
yea man ... this is a terrible mistake, and mistake over mistake, u just have less ppl playing d3, cuz u reach the end point of Seasickness and Disgust.

even Gods tolerance have limits .
04/11/2017 11:16 AMPosted by Dukus
Finds primal yangs then cries.

RNG bud. Roll that disc and move forward.


I can assure you there were no tears involved in any part of the process. Quite the oppposite: I hope that D3 would, at some point in the future, reach a point where I genuinely care about the loot that drops. The current state of loot just forces people to refrain from getting excited about orange/green stars on their mini-map, because they learnt that they will be let down in almost all cases.
love deslike on my post ... thats mean i said the truth ... ty god... we still have casual noobs in diablo3
04/11/2017 10:20 AMPosted by KampfSaU
04/11/2017 09:20 AMPosted by TeddyKGB

No, this logic is wrong. If they ever let piece of gear to be fully rollable, it will be the very end of this game. There will be only paragon, and trust me, it wouldn't be good. This game have infinite scaling and uncapped (well, 10000 isn't really a cap) paragon. Giving players item that will be capable of fitting into every build in the future completely kills loot hunt. Today you look for attack speed, tomorrow you may need CDR. Item that would let you roll it like that will ruined this game. I went thru 5 or 6 ancient blade of tribes during past 8 months, because I needed different rolls for different builds. I farmed bounties, Rifts, I reforged, upgrade rares, it was a goal I wanted to achieve. If they would be fully rollable, I'd farm bounties till my eyes bleed for a week or so, than reforge for Primal, than it would be the very last tribes I'd ever need for (hopefully) years of playing to come.

Think about it the other way, let's say we have Pv1 live, not this junk. And you are paragon 500, bow that you just got dropped in T6 during gear farm. It has exactly same rolls, but in Pv1 version. You got 30% higher weapon base roll. It would be a game changer, even without max discipline. You would build around it, and use it to farm better version, but guess what, you would be doing it more efficiently now. Best part is, you didn't have to do solo 70 to get it, it boosted your performance, and it would let you play better. Maybe you would think about build that could use it the way it was rolled?


Hm, I don't think that having an "end" to the loot-hunt is necessarily a bad thing. Effectively there already is an end to the loot-hunt - it is the point where you decide that farming bounties for reforges is no longer worth the effort - and most people will most likely give up before reaching the point of total perfection in all slots. And this might still be the case with fully rerollable primals. But even if someone was able to achieve the truly "perfect" state in all slots, isn't that something positive and satisfying? And furthermore this person has then the incentive to try another class or another build and to perfect those.

I think it essentially boils down to how long it takes to reach the "end" (item-wise). If it is too easy to reach, then it doesn't feel like an achievement. If it is too hard to reach, then you will never feel "really" satisfied with your character. I feel that dropping rerollable Primals would be a nice middle-ground.


I don't agree. Aside of sets, there is very limited amount of items that due to legendary power or affixes will be likely used in a future. Having opportunity to simply target these items knowing that once you will get it you will be able to make any stat combination will effectively decrease longevity of this game. Next ptr may bring another build based on same set items but different skills, and this build may require different rolls (like in place of current CDR we will be stacking on AS or RCR). Having fully rollable items (there is only few jewelry slots and few weapons/offhands) will totally remove farming out of equation, because "class mains"(players that are focused on one class) will have key items in primal versions already. Unless the cost would be beyond insane (along the lines of 1000 souls + 1000 DB's+20 Ramagifts+100 each bounty mats and like 5000 of each yellow/white/blue) fully rollable items will definitely kill this game. And even than (with extreme high cost) this game would be ruined, because forum full of players that don't play really a lot would rage (along the lines of botters/motherbasement/nolifers/advantage/so on and so forth) and at some point this cost would be lowered for easier accessibility.

Loot hunt games with infinite difficulty scaling should never handover critical gear that will be the very last item for the slot. Is enough to be able to get rollable elemental amulets/bracers and trifecta rings that can fit to any build, as is.
Got primal shadows pants today. Max armor and life regen rolls without any type of secondary resists. Was hoping for all resist and vitality.

Just as they make primal rings and amulets always roll sockets, why not have pants and chest pieces roll vitality? Or Yang's and dead man legacy roll discipline?
04/11/2017 05:45 PMPosted by PwrdOff
Got primal shadows pants today. Max armor and life regen rolls without any type of secondary resists. Was hoping for all resist and vitality.

Just as they make primal rings and amulets always roll sockets, why not have pants and chest pieces roll vitality? Or Yang's and dead man legacy roll discipline?


Because go run that GR, again, to go find that item, again. Such content, much fun.
04/11/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Dragonmaster
Basically primals were created to remove 1 element of RNG from drops. Right you now have.

1 - Does a Legendary Drop
2 - Is it Ancient/Primal
3 - Is it an Item that's useful or used
4 - Are the Affixes on the Item Correct or 1 off of correct
5 - Are the Stat values Perfect.

Primal's remove the 5th value.


They actually go even slightly further since all primal jewelry are guaranteed a socket and all primal weapons are guaranteed not to have one.
Originally planned primals 30% stronger, community !@#$%rants, doesn't want.

Get current version of primals, community ^-*!@rants, doesn't want.

Why do the devs even try anymore? Even if they did* come out with something we wanted, the first thing that would happen is part of the community would go rabid at the mouth, and they'd take them away and give us something that pisses EVERYONE off instead of just the rabid foammouthers
04/11/2017 05:44 PMPosted by TeddyKGB
04/11/2017 10:20 AMPosted by KampfSaU


Hm, I don't think that having an "end" to the loot-hunt is necessarily a bad thing. Effectively there already is an end to the loot-hunt - it is the point where you decide that farming bounties for reforges is no longer worth the effort - and most people will most likely give up before reaching the point of total perfection in all slots. And this might still be the case with fully rerollable primals. But even if someone was able to achieve the truly "perfect" state in all slots, isn't that something positive and satisfying? And furthermore this person has then the incentive to try another class or another build and to perfect those.

I think it essentially boils down to how long it takes to reach the "end" (item-wise). If it is too easy to reach, then it doesn't feel like an achievement. If it is too hard to reach, then you will never feel "really" satisfied with your character. I feel that dropping rerollable Primals would be a nice middle-ground.


I don't agree. Aside of sets, there is very limited amount of items that due to legendary power or affixes will be likely used in a future. Having opportunity to simply target these items knowing that once you will get it you will be able to make any stat combination will effectively decrease longevity of this game. Next ptr may bring another build based on same set items but different skills, and this build may require different rolls (like in place of current CDR we will be stacking on AS or RCR). Having fully rollable items (there is only few jewelry slots and few weapons/offhands) will totally remove farming out of equation, because "class mains"(players that are focused on one class) will have key items in primal versions already. Unless the cost would be beyond insane (along the lines of 1000 souls + 1000 DB's+20 Ramagifts+100 each bounty mats and like 5000 of each yellow/white/blue) fully rollable items will definitely kill this game. And even than (with extreme high cost) this game would be ruined, because forum full of players that don't play really a lot would rage (along the lines of botters/motherbasement/nolifers/advantage/so on and so forth) and at some point this cost would be lowered for easier accessibility.

Loot hunt games with infinite difficulty scaling should never handover critical gear that will be the very last item for the slot. Is enough to be able to get rollable elemental amulets/bracers and trifecta rings that can fit to any build, as is.


I don't really see how fully rerollable Primals would kill the game - again it depends on how easy/hard it is to get them and this can be easily tuned by adjusting the drop rate, costs for rerolling, etc.

Look at D2: there were definite slot-finisher items - you only needed to find them once and you were done with the slot. Did that kill D2? No, because they were rare enough or costly enough to obtain, such that people were excited when they got them and got even more motivated to finish the next slot.

And if you have all possible characters/builds/slots finished, then there are still seasons, where you can start fresh, if you so desire.
04/11/2017 07:25 AMPosted by Amrita
Better than a Pri Nagelring or Pri Genzaniku


Personally, I disagree. I got primal Goldskin and Tyrael's Might and it didn't hurt as much as getting the weapon that I wanted with vitality and rcr. Because you know you have one chance to get a primal version of what you are looking for and when the bad rolls come, you're done.
Nothing special about Primals. They are just max roll Ancients, and they can roll just as horrible as any other item in the game.
04/11/2017 05:59 AMPosted by TeddyKGB
I won't focus on primal items as they are, because they have zero incentive to me. I'll take paragon points over it, they are account wide and they useful for any build, current or future.


How does one "focus" on primals?

lol
Could be worse, I play DH and just had a Primal 2h Mace roll with Strength
04/12/2017 03:50 AMPosted by Ozajri
04/11/2017 05:59 AMPosted by TeddyKGB
I won't focus on primal items as they are, because they have zero incentive to me. I'll take paragon points over it, they are account wide and they useful for any build, current or future.


How does one "focus" on primals?

lol


Just same way as focusing on ancients. Targeted grind. How do you think some folks are already running in season with primal jewelry and weapons? It's very simple, define item you need, define most efficient way to get it, gather and spend resources for that. For jewelry it is reforge legendary, for weapons it is upgrade rare. Than, there is a whole lot of notes/observations. It's all weighted, so if you pay attention and note how often (or how many x you need to get a z) you are getting said item, you will know what are your chances to get this item in better roll. There is also observations on loot table (aka you are in game that every other run gives you item x, and some also look on clan loot. This "randomized" system isn't that hard to narrow by 60-70% if you pay attention. It's simple. I'm in game that gives me Bladevof the tribes every other run. I didn't see an ancient item in 7-8 runs. Time to go to cube and upgrade 30 rare 2h mighty weapons. Why? Because BoTT have higher chance to drop in this game (aka average percentage of drop for this item is higher) and you are about that time you should get an ancient item of any kind. Connect two dots and voila, you have ancient Tribes on day 2 of the season.
04/11/2017 05:45 AMPosted by TeddyKGB
You want my Primal Starfire with AD and RCR?

Yes, Blizz missed the point with Pv2, big time. But, it is what it is, and you can say big fat "Thank You" to all those who were raging against Pv1.

Remember, Primals cannot be predefined in rolls, because builds change in time. Today you need x and y on item, tomorrow same set may need z and w.


Let's be serious - Primal v1 was just as stupid. Another 30% power hike? With a drop rate that low? No !@#$ing thanks.
Be happy you found an item even worth looking at... Paragon 920 or so, and not one item worth the identification. Bunch of no hero power / non set items... lol
04/11/2017 05:40 AMPosted by KampfSaU
Yeah that happened to me. And it has CDR on it, which makes it worse than my ancient Yang with IAS. I think Blizzard has really missed their design goal for Primals. Well there goes my excitement for Primal drops...

You don't need extra discipline for Marauder's, this set boosts Multishot too, and Yang's and DML has to fit that set as well thus they cannot get a guaranteed discipline roll.
04/11/2017 05:45 AMPosted by TeddyKGB
Yes, Blizz missed the point with Pv2, big time. But, it is what it is, and you can say big fat "Thank You" to all those who were raging against Pv1.

Yes we had too because stat inflation is stupid and does not add anything to the game other than a lot of frustrations over not getting them. A long time player like you should recall the rantings over Ancients back in the day.

Also the GR70 lock would most likely have been added neither way as Primals was intended as endgame farming goal.

So any of your points made regarding is pretty much bombed.
04/11/2017 09:29 AMPosted by Heimdall
Hmm do U think I would squeeze moar dps from primal version of my Yang's?

http://i.imgur.com/s7L13v7.jpg

Uhm, whatever ^^

[/quote]

Rolling out that vit for an offensive stat because, when you start needing that vit, you will actually need an entirely different build that doesn't use yang's?
04/11/2017 04:35 PMPosted by KampfSaU
I can assure you there were no tears involved in any part of the process. Quite the oppposite: I hope that D3 would, at some point in the future, reach a point where I genuinely care about the loot that drops. The current state of loot just forces people to refrain from getting excited about orange/green stars on their mini-map, because they learnt that they will be let down in almost all cases.


A lot of complaining being done. You know how many crappy ancient yangs I found last season? A lot. You know how many primal Yang's I have found? 0. RNG is part of the game. Best part is... you don't NEED a primal yangs to do anything.

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