Legacy of Nightmares - Suggestion - Slight Bump up??

General Discussion
TLDR: Please bump up LoN ever so slightly so Classes can T13 Group play with LoN sets. They are amazing fun to chase/build.

I believe one of the most appealing aspects to Diablo 3 is loot. The possibilities you have with all the different legendaries, grinding for that class set, or perfect rolled piece of loot.

That being said, I think LoN builds are very hard to obtain in comparison to sets. Since T13 came out the power of LoN hasn't quite been there.

I don't think LoN should fight for the top Group or Solo Leader Board positions every season, or ever for that matter. I would like to see a Full Ancient LoN build have the ability to blow up T13 groups though.

I have primarily played Barbs and Demon hunters, Demon Hunters more the last few seasons. The LoN strafe build is amazingly fun on a DH, but with the arrival of T13 its just not viable. This season I've tried a lot of various LoN builds (with friends as well who have different ancient drops than I do). Many are T10 viable, few are T13 viable.

I was able to complete a Unhallowed Essence (UE) build in Two days that was T13 Group capable. My friend did it in One day. In 3 weeks of crazy grinding I was able to put together a LoN build that's T10 viable, with Ancient in every slot with amazing weapon rolls and level 85+ gems, soft cap paragon...

The reward for collecting a more difficult set of equipment isn't there.

I hope/suggest the developers look at LoN for various classes and consider bumping it's damage/survival slightly to make it at least T13 Group viable in the future.

Every season LoN builds seem to be my end game goal... what I chase. Even though they are under-powered. It's such a "open" sand box to experiment with.
I could second that, last season I was barely able to get a LoN build working with WD, think I remember it getting to T12 but not T13, then again, my paragon was so low that I was barely able to go T13 with Arachyr Firebats :/
The bump from t10 to t13 capability isn't small.

The other issue is that you're assuming all LON builds are created equal and they're not. Some classes are pushing incredibly high with LON builds. If you buff the set too much then those builds that excel become too powerful.

The problem I think you're experiencing is that strafe just isn't a powerful build. I personally have a LON strafe build that I love. But you honestly can't have a strafe build that's too powerful. It can move through enemies baseline, constantly move while attacking, auto targets, and is completely immune to CC.

LON is capable of t13 with builds that are a bit more complicated to play.
04/19/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Dreyda
The problem I think you're experiencing is that strafe just isn't a powerful build. I personally have a LON strafe build that I love. But you honestly can't have a strafe build that's too powerful. It can move through enemies baseline, constantly move while attacking, auto targets, and is completely immune to CC.


If strafe can do all that with impunity, it sounds like it doesn't need any more damage does it? What it doesn't have in damage it makes up for in sheer mobility and ease of play with the mentioned auto targeting. There is in fact such a thing as 'too powerful'.

Back on topic, from what I've heard there are quite a few LoN builds that can get pretty high into GR. Buffing LoN overall will push those builds even further, which will become the 'standard' setup for pushing GR for the competitive if they want to top leaderboards and limit diversity that high even further than it is now, given the min/maxing of builds for that type of content.

Might be best to leave it as is.
I actually think that it would be better if LoN was implanted in the game as a inner mechanic, not set.

50% damage and 3% reduction for every legendary

125% damage and 5% reduction for ancient

1xx damage and x for Primal.

All that while not wearing any set items.

Free ring slots, people who are gearing up early in the game are rewarded for legendaries and finding synergies, devoted players could make GR pushing builds with it, as is, some item adjustment would be needed so FoK and Bomb wouldn't become too strong, but I think 2 small nerfs (although I wouldn't call them nerfs, if builds could still clear same as before+ 2/3 GR levels) could be justified if players could actually be rewarded with Torment viable builds that wouldn't be tied in into 2 rings.
Just leave it alone .. I'd hate to see it broken and eventually nerfed.
04/19/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Dreyda
The bump from t10 to t13 capability isn't small.

The other issue is that you're assuming all LON builds are created equal and they're not. Some classes are pushing incredibly high with LON builds. If you buff the set too much then those builds that excel become too powerful.

The problem I think you're experiencing is that strafe just isn't a powerful build. I personally have a LON strafe build that I love. But you honestly can't have a strafe build that's too powerful. It can move through enemies baseline, constantly move while attacking, auto targets, and is completely immune to CC.

LON is capable of t13 with builds that are a bit more complicated to play.


Show me your DH LoN build that can kill anything near as close/fast as impale or UE in T13... I've tried generator builds, strafe builds, grenade builds... UE and Impale destroy it.

I've tried different builds other than Strafe, none of them are 50% as fast as Impale/UE.
04/19/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Dreyda
The bump from t10 to t13 capability isn't small.

The other issue is that you're assuming all LON builds are created equal and they're not. Some classes are pushing incredibly high with LON builds. If you buff the set too much then those builds that excel become too powerful.

The problem I think you're experiencing is that strafe just isn't a powerful build. I personally have a LON strafe build that I love. But you honestly can't have a strafe build that's too powerful. It can move through enemies baseline, constantly move while attacking, auto targets, and is completely immune to CC.

LON is capable of t13 with builds that are a bit more complicated to play.


Show me your DH LoN build that can kill anything near as close/fast as impale or UE.

I've tried different builds other than Strafe, none of them are 50% as fast as Impale/UE.


Show me an impale/UE build that auto targets and can dance around enemies dodging skill shots while doing full damage and has anywhere close to the toughness a LON strafe build has.

Sure those builds can dish out more damage, but there needs to be some variation in what different builds excel at. If a build is the best at everything, there's no reason to ever play anything else.

The LON strafe build is amazing for farming mats and bounties. Very few builds can compete with it.
04/19/2017 10:15 AMPosted by S4v4G3
50% damage and 3% reduction for every legendary

125% damage and 5% reduction for ancient

1xx damage and x for Primal.

All that while not wearing any set items

I like this, would give it a sense of progression since optimizing LoN is a huge RNG pain in the !@#.
Well not zero set items but zero bonuses.
...

Show me your DH LoN build that can kill anything near as close/fast as impale or UE.

I've tried different builds other than Strafe, none of them are 50% as fast as Impale/UE.


Show me an impale/UE build that auto targets and can dance around enemies dodging skill shots while doing full damage and has anywhere close to the toughness a LON strafe build has.

Sure those builds can dish out more damage, but there needs to be some variation in what different builds excel at. If a build is the best at everything, there's no reason to ever play anything else.

The LON strafe build is amazing for farming mats and bounties. Very few builds can compete with it.


Have you played them?... you're responses make me think you haven't played Impale or UE lately. I'm not saying that in an insulting fighting way. I'm honestly curious if you've played them.

Impale has insane toughness. DESTROYS LoN toughness. You can eat grotesque explosions.

UE target? You wipe out the entire screen, and even off screen. Rockets target stuff anywhere in a radius larger than the screen. UE has a bigger kill zone than strafe. UE toughness is also better than LoN, not to mention Goldwrap + a pet if you want to be 100% unkillable in T13 rifts.

I get that Crusaders have really strong LoN builds, DH don't.

My question still stands. Show me a LoN DH build (Any build) that can clear a T13 in a group setting. Soloing an elite in a 4 player T13 as LoN will take over a Minute. Impale takes about 4 seconds. UE takes about 6-8 seconds.

I'm not saying make LoN end game. My point is ***It's the hardest set to aquire in the game, can we make builds or buff the set bonuses so every class has a LoN build that's Group T13 rift viable." You can't currently say that every class is T13 Group Viable.
04/19/2017 11:54 AMPosted by Nerva
Impale has insane toughness. DESTROYS LoN toughness. You can eat grotesque explosions.

Ikr, I'm happy with my ~260m toughness with Impale.
04/19/2017 10:15 AMPosted by S4v4G3
I actually think that it would be better if LoN was implanted in the game as a inner mechanic, not set.

50% damage and 3% reduction for every legendary

125% damage and 5% reduction for ancient

1xx damage and x for Primal.

All that while not wearing any set items.

Free ring slots, people who are gearing up early in the game are rewarded for legendaries and finding synergies, devoted players could make GR pushing builds with it, as is, some item adjustment would be needed so FoK and Bomb wouldn't become too strong, but I think 2 small nerfs (although I wouldn't call them nerfs, if builds could still clear same as before+ 2/3 GR levels) could be justified if players could actually be rewarded with Torment viable builds that wouldn't be tied in into 2 rings.


I like that idea.. you can feel the progress with that.
And free ring slots are ofc very welcome.. one big downside of lon are wasted ring slots...

I tried myself some lon builds but i gave up.. atm they are really useless.. only thorns work but are also a really pain in the !@# to equip...not FUNNY in a game that should make fun.
The problem is still now the LoN, when are you going to get that, that set is fine, although its very existence questions the design of the game.

But LoN and the way it works is not an issue at all. The lack of diversity and functionality in the set lays on the legendaries and their powers, they are simply too weak and too few.
My suggestion is to remove the need for ancient item. its dumb and make people lazy to try a new build cause u will need a lot of ancient slots.

Ancients will naturally make the build stronger anyway like any other build. There is no reason for it to require ancient to even get the damn bonus.
My wish for LoN would be, that you get something like 825% dmg bonus all the time, and +75% dmg bonus (additive) for every ancient item. That would be 1800% in full ancient gear.
Thus you have a good and easy starting set with the two rings and you can max it out in full ancient.
Two rings to rule 'em all!
200% DMG increase for primals would make LON fun to build.
04/19/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Dreyda
The problem I think you're experiencing is that strafe just isn't a powerful build. I personally have a LON strafe build that I love. But you honestly can't have a strafe build that's too powerful. It can move through enemies baseline, constantly move while attacking, auto targets, and is completely immune to CC.


i base lon builds on t10 bounty speed farming, love my dh lon strafer for bounties, I usually finish my act first and sometimes the whole 5th wheel act before everyone else is done with theirs. That's what I build my lon builds for, fast farming.

If you leaderboard chase lon build, that's just... a lon-g lon-g journey.... heh
04/19/2017 10:15 AMPosted by S4v4G3
I actually think that it would be better if LoN was implanted in the game as a inner mechanic, not set.

50% damage and 3% reduction for every legendary

125% damage and 5% reduction for ancient

1xx damage and x for Primal.

All that while not wearing any set items.

Free ring slots, people who are gearing up early in the game are rewarded for legendaries and finding synergies, devoted players could make GR pushing builds with it, as is, some item adjustment would be needed so FoK and Bomb wouldn't become too strong, but I think 2 small nerfs (although I wouldn't call them nerfs, if builds could still clear same as before+ 2/3 GR levels) could be justified if players could actually be rewarded with Torment viable builds that wouldn't be tied in into 2 rings.


I really like this too, Makrs a lot of sense
LON buff, char balance, & Akkhan buff has been biggest request by player yet ever ignored by Blizzard.
04/19/2017 10:31 AMPosted by Nerva
Show me your DH LoN build that can kill anything near as close/fast as impale or UE
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/85754-s9-lon-fok-shi-mizu-solo-90
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/88640-fok-lon
GR104 (single player) was cleared with this build on EU (rank 1 ns).

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