Diablo 4 should be rated R18+

General Discussion
No...really? Noo. Nothing needs more nudity & excessive swearing. If you cross that line with, "all hell breaks loose," everyone would be expressively sinning their pants off, in a literal sense.

I'm actually with China on flesh and bones. It's always stylistically better and more fashionable to build upon proper ratios and proportions. Nothing needs to be hanging in any sense.

Btw, in terms of expressions, during scenes revolving character flaw(s), cursing goes, hand in hand, with fml situations. However, in terms of quality, that's being cheap. You can always create better scenarios, with stronger characters, building upon better interactions.

Stories have been proven to be more exciting when the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s) are swapped. In fact, it is by far more interesting if, "the bad guy," leads the hero, or takes the lead, instead of the cliche Home Alone-esque-apades.

For example, some of the series revolving around Batman are extremely gritty. Could you imagine if, even in the movie, Christian Bale and Broke Back went off on a swearing binge?

Conscience & being conscientious. This can't be free huh? LOL
Don't sweat it. By the time d4 is ready, blizz will be absorbes by Disney. You'll be farming with mickeys ears xmog before you notice.
It might be more accurate to say some have been desensitized on matters of creepy or horror.

As I tend to urge in these sorts of topics, there comes a point where going too "dark" reaches the point of parody. Everything being hopeless while we know the PC is going to fix things up all well and good is own degree of boring cliche. One could say the earlier mentioned Farnham was an example of gallows humor, and while D3 had similar here and there, it wasn't exactly consolidated since I'd argue NPCs played a much smaller role overall.

Graphically, simply making things more difficult to see doesn't incite a sense of panic in me, nor others. Rather, I just find myself squinting at the screen frustrated that 80% or more of my visual real estate is being arbitrarily cut off in favor of some interpretation of shock value. Maybe I hear something? Maybe I don't. Nonetheless, the game being what it is, I'm always expecting something. So, it's not like true shock is achieved commonly.

Either way, D3's still got blood smears staining floors, corpses everywhere, torture implements, satanic imagery, and then some. I'm not really sure how much more that kind of stuff can be gussied up to avoid the too-frequent label of cartoonish. If anything, such feels more like a scapegoat for other issues they either can't quite pinpoint or are afraid to because of how it'd personally identify them. The hate on the Leah > Diablo conversion stands out here, especially if the logic employed is that Diablo HAS to be a big, burly demon dude.
Unfortunately, anything that anyone could honestly, and completely enjoy doesn't exist. It wouldn't; that's business. No one ever pays for everything, from beginning to end, to be done professionally, at every aspect of the way.

Michael Moore was just a mascot of collections of works. In fact, many people wouldn't even realize that those Mocumentaries were just a collection of snippets from several Documentaries, with the addition of commentary; as opposed to the traditional narrations.

If I recall correctly, Steven Spielberg was a no-name that was never mainstream or "indy." However, popularized the indy brand, because it barely came with an expense; it was just whatever you would want to afford. Star Wars was stereo-typically known for its flaws, alongside the popularization of psychic dudes of immense power, wearing robes, and that shady, just as powerfully terrifying, guy in black, with the shiny red stick. Many parents even dubbed Star Wars as a "cult" fiction, that shouldn't be showed or spoken of.

How many years of horrible, and yet, beloved, episodes of Star Trek, and movie remakes, did people have to go through until the modern movie was released? The limitations of what could be translated, and made into a movie was a big thing for so many decades. All the "3D" cartoon movies are supposed to be groundbreaking.

Nothing has been consistent. The term, "technology," has been meticulously broadened, and is, currently, all over the place, in the release and the use of patents.

This was the sci-fi scene, identical to the gaming scene, the consumers are just expected to bear with the flaws, because it's as good as it gets... which, especially, defeats the purpose of the end products/works.

It's only good, or cool, because at the end of the day, it's always about the big names that paid for it. Spending; lack thereof. They're the ones who popularized it, and the consumers are the ones who are expected to shut up and rave about it, and like their cut of if <---- the prestige of being able to be a part of it.
05/22/2017 10:22 PMPosted by Saidosha
As I tend to urge in these sorts of topics, there comes a point where going too "dark" reaches the point of parody. Everything being hopeless while we know the PC is going to fix things up all well and good is own degree of boring cliche.
In truly dark games, the player character doesn't have to fix everything in the end and usually doesn't. Bittersweet endings or plain Bad endings (sometime both, if the game has multiple endings) are the norm.
Some examples (spoilers ahead, of course):
  • In Dark Souls, you can either sacrifice yourself to several lifetimes of burning alive just to give the dying world a little more time, or you can choose to rule on a dead world as the dark lord. In both case, you are manipulated by the old gods/the primordial serpent, and you can do nothing to end the undead curse.
  • In Resident Evil, you escape alive, maybe with the last 2 surviving members of your team, and maybe after destroying one of Umbrella's secret research facility.
    Everybody else involved is dead and you can do nothing to stop the T-virus from spreading. Raccoon City will be overrun by zombies in the sequel and will be destroyed by atomic fire despite you best efforts
  • In Diablo, you banish the Lord of Terror and sacrifice yourself to try and contain his soul in your mortal body. We all know how well it turned out.

05/22/2017 10:22 PMPosted by Saidosha
Graphically, simply making things more difficult to see doesn't incite a sense of panic in me, nor others.

Sure, nobody is afraid of the dark, and all those horror films that hide the creature in the shadows are less scary as a result...
"That which is unknown and unseen always commands the greatest fear."

05/22/2017 10:22 PMPosted by Saidosha
Either way, D3's still got blood smears staining floors, corpses everywhere, torture implements, satanic imagery, and then some. I'm not really sure how much more that kind of stuff can be gussied up to avoid the too-frequent label of cartoonish.

That's just proof that those elements are not enough in and of themselves to create a dark atmosphere. Compare corpses and torture implements in D3 and the Souls game: they are bloodier in D3, and yet way darker in the Souls game.

There is no sense of vulnerability in D3. You are the freaking Nephalem and you are here to kick demon's !@# and save the day. Said demons are goofballs that can't help but taunt you endlessly over the PA system. Sure, some of your NPC friends may die somewhere along the way, but you are too busy making everything explode in fireworks to really care.
Having mature content only works for certain types of games. GTA obviously benefits from mature content as it strengthens the game they're making.

Diablo won't see a lot of strength from mature content. It doesn't need a lot of gore or foul language. It needs depth in character development, interesting items, and loads of dungeons to find those items in.

Thematically, dark and gothic can be achieved without leaning on elements that would push a game into mature territory. I'm not against blood and gore, but it can turn into a crutch. Lack of lighting can work wonders for a game's atmosphere.
While I agree with the reasoning for The rated games/films. It's never going to happen due to P/L.

Even though Deadpool was the highest grossing R film it still is a niche.(It did however make me believe Superhero movies can still be awesome).

In the gamer market an R game, even top selling still limits it's potential market. That and R for D4 doesn't translate into a good game. !@#$ if it's the same Devs as now it'll be gore everywhere instead of lazor light show that D3 is now. (I'll admit that IS better).
05/22/2017 10:07 PMPosted by Baha
Don't sweat it. By the time d4 is ready, blizz will be absorbes by Disney. You'll be farming with mickeys ears xmog before you notice.

Dont forget the Jar-Jar xmog! Exsqueeze me...
05/23/2017 12:11 AMPosted by Skyi
Even though Deadpool was the highest grossing R film it still is a niche.

What about Saving Private Ryan? American Sniper? Matrix Reloaded? Terminator 2: Judgment Day? 300? Gladiator? Pretty Woman?

Back to the OP:
There is no "rated R" game, because this rating doesn't exist for games. The ESRB equivalent to "R" is "M", and that's where all Diablo games and extensions to date stand. So I'm not sure what exactly the OP's argument is.
Do they think that the game should be rated AO, like GTA: San Andreas, Manhunt 2 or Hatred are? That would be equivalent to a NC-17 movie and would do nothing but hurt the game's sales. Diablo doesn't need use of drugs, intense violence or strong sexual content to be dark and scary.
They already said they aren't making d4, because they failed harshly with d3 so making another flop isn't going to be allowed by activision this time.
Sure, nobody is afraid of the dark, and all those horror films that hide the creature in the shadows are less scary as a result...
"That which is unknown and unseen always commands the greatest fear."

When it comes to storytelling, the first playthrough may get someone jumping here and there. The next is unlikely since they'll know what's coming.

When it comes to gameplay, the player will start noticing trends about such "traps" like designs in the environment and grouping habits/AI of mobs found earlier in the zone (or in general). There hasn't really been a game with randomly generated maps that have been random enough to avoid this sort of pattern recognition, and it's ultimately why I find arbitrarily darkening the majority of the screen into uselessness a fleeting feature of aesthetic overkill. Should one think Dark Souls or the like "looks darker" then I'd posit it may be more a matter of their texture design and the scope of the environment relative to the player's size.

As is, D3 already suffers from the issue of what the player sees and what the character sees, yielding mobs that suddenly "pop up" even though you're actually seeing that aspect of the environment they're coming from, or inversely get blocked by seeing anything due to the isometric design overlap the the character should technically be seeing down. A first-person or a tight third-person perspective is really the only way you can truly eliminate the former, but on the other hand, if D4 were to go first-person, I would not touch it as I loathe FPS titles. Overall, this is an argument of Fashion vs. Function. We'll all go numb to the shocks with enough play time. I'm more concerned about the potential tedium after that happens.
05/22/2017 11:55 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
Lack of lighting can work wonders for a game's atmosphere.


There are settings that allow you to control this, whether they be from your computer, or from in game.

The only discussion so far that I can accept a little regarding how "dark" this game feels would absolutely be the music.

THen again, I also feel a major issue is rifting, and how it pulls you away from the story, away from the music as designed to captivate a moment in time. Judging the gritty or dark manner of a game based on a system that has no story to tell is a very poor argument in my opinion.

Other than that, you are absolutely right, this game first and foremost should be about character development, and I would much rather see thread after thread discussing that, than some very subjective opinions on whether or not the game is "dark" based on rifting experience.
@Saidosha
OK, I see your point.

It's true that this kind of things work way better during the first play through. Resident Evil is a good example of this: the first playthrough can be scary, but the subsequent ones are just an exercice in optimisation, since you now exactly where everything is, what monsters you have to kill to progress, etc.

It's also true that a top down perspective is not the best at conveying fear. For one thing, monsters can't really suprise-attack you from behind.

However, I do believe that procedural generation may be used to make up for it. Just because it never managed to create true unpredictability in the past doesn't mean it will never be able to do it.
I've yet to play the game myself, but from what I heard, Alien: Isolation did a good job at making the player stay on their toes thanks to its hard to predict xenomorph's behavior. If it can be done for an opponent AI, then it can surely be done for environment generation, monsters placement, etc.
This stupid thread will probably last forever, while anything I write is moved or deleted instantly.

THERE IS NO D4.

/THREAD
05/22/2017 04:26 PMPosted by ShogunRob
Never happen. D3 is a console game, D4 (if ever) will be a console game or an app. They will lose money from a R or NC17 rating.


sad but so true ...

Blizzard games becomes child games since a few years now

if you're looking for difficulty in video games, u should stop playing Blizzard games
05/22/2017 11:55 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
Having mature content only works for certain types of games. GTA obviously benefits from mature content as it strengthens the game they're making.

Diablo won't see a lot of strength from mature content. It doesn't need a lot of gore or foul language. It needs depth in character development, interesting items, and loads of dungeons to find those items in.

Thematically, dark and gothic can be achieved without leaning on elements that would push a game into mature territory. I'm not against blood and gore, but it can turn into a crutch. Lack of lighting can work wonders for a game's atmosphere.


My take on the GTA's were that the stories themselves were boring. Progression was solely to unlock whatever added onto the game. GTA was pretty much out running the cops.

I won't specify which GTA, but there was a 3 hour binge and I dropped from a helicopter onto a tank. I counted the wave intervals and I saved.
Plain and simple you don't need an AO rating to make a good horror game.

And why exactly do some of you want an AO rating? You want to see Diablo have sex with a human or something? What would be the point of it? Every single game that receives an AO rating is because of its sexual content.

And I'll repeat again. Having an AO game would make it so almost every retailer wouldn't sell your game. And you wouldn't be able to stream on twitch. You'd kill your game sales by doing that. It's a terrible, terrible idea.

The only successful AAA title, that has ever gotten an AO rating is San Andreas. And it got the AO rating after it released once the HOt Coffee MOD was discovered.
I agree i have seen some spooky stuff such as black man with parkinsons with a female dyke fanart
Im surprised at how much attention my thread has recieved, and I've certainly been enlightened by a lot of replies in regards to its rating. Good points made and can see why an AO rating could hurt the game. My point was that it needed a more hellish feel to it, Doom 4 for example created a better experience than Doom 3 basically because it returned to its roots. I wasn't asking for nudity or swearing, my bad, would just like to see something more grim, and characters/NPCs we can feel something for, because i didn't give a rats !@# about Leah...
05/23/2017 11:40 AMPosted by Dogg3h
Im surprised at how much attention my thread has recieved, and I've certainly been enlightened by a lot of replies in regards to its rating. Good points made and can see why an AO rating could hurt the game. My point was that it needed a more hellish feel to it, Doom 4 for example created a better experience than Doom 3 basically because it returned to its roots. I wasn't asking for nudity or swearing, my bad, would just like to see something more grim, and characters/NPCs we can feel something for, because i didn't give a rats !@# about Leah...


I 100% agree with all that.

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