Blizzard, do you know WHY tranq blood performs so well?

General Discussion
Lets talk about Greater rift gr 90 plus, especaially 95 plus.

There is a reason Tranq blood performs ontop right now, and its NOT due to them doing more burst then my rathma.

With Rathma using Frozen land and Simulacrum, I will burst down elites faster then Tranq blood can.

However, I lack the possibility to skip too much trash mobs, I need to wade through greater rifts, which are increased in % based on previous rift, to the point where Trash damage becomes unmanagable.

I think its enough that trash mobs hitpoints increases.
Its however you look it even a gear check to push forward in 90 plus cause your damage will lack.

But the issue is more that in ORDER to push forward, you must sacrifice survival.
Unity in solo greater rifts? Forget it at higher up, especially as Rathma with 2 mandatory rings, leaving either Endless walk or haunted vision plus possibly Unity, but that last setup lacks damage, COE plus Haunted vision is the only possibility.

I feel the implementation is lazy and I honestly wonder if Blizzard employees do greater rifts at near 100 themself?

When you are literally forced to run nemesis bracers to make it, due to density in especially solo greater rifts is so incredibly bad, you have NO choice but to push using elite killer setups. You run 20 years just to be stopped by 3, 4 trash mobs that do so much ranged damage, you need to deal with them or possibility of dying is immense.
As Tranq blood, you rush past them, curse them, blood rush forward.
As any other spec, we are usually forced to handle those trash packs.

I really would not mind doing this, if the density was not so incredibly bad, that despite killing them very quickly, you loose progress always until you can adjust the progress with an elite pack.
Majority is cause 9 out of 10 trash mobs do more damage then elite packs.

Then comes the random generator of elite affixes.
You can be far infront in progress just to face a double elite pack with such affixes you just need to leave, its practically and theoretically impossible to fight them without hyper escape, which in most cases you lack in order to fit in your stronger dps skills.
Sure you say, well thats up to you to not use said skills.
Well if your doing near 100 or above GRs, you know if you dont have maximum nuke, you can not do this.

Hence, Tranq blood excells.
Should it be toned down? Not at all.
Again, with my rathma spec, I kill elites around 3 times faster then tranq blood. I have tried and tested this.
However I do NOT have the luxary to use the 2 minute cds I need to kill elites this fast, when I push trash. And slowly you take a step forward in the instances.
This goes for most classes.

Its no longer becomes a dps race, which I personally prefer it to be, but it becomes an immense survival test, where you are unable to equip survival skills or items to kill trash or elites in time due to the increased % in Hitpoints from gr level to gr level.

There is no balance.
In my opinion, I would not mind the damage if their hp was not so high.
Esoteric alteration, molten gizzard? These are speed farming gems or zdps gems you use for lower greater rifts such as gr 90 where atleast I run through them at my mere paragon 1200. I dont need nuke skills for those. But once you hit 95 plus unless your 3k paragon, you stumble into an issue.
And honestly, even if I had 2k more paragon points that would not really be the issue, possibly you then could afford to slot in a defensive gem, not sure.

The entire design of Greater rifts need to be looked over.
Above all, the damage from trash mobs. And I dont mind zombies hitting like a brick due to them being slow, but when you have Vile Tempress, you have 3 types of assasination mobs that jump you half across the screen and literally 1 shoot you.
How about when an elite pack have teleported minions that also have assasin type behaviour, such as small, able to jump far, and teleport, add in Poison or mortar on this, and you need to deal with them. They give no progress by the way.

There are 2 ways to solve the higher greater rift issues.
And Im talking solo. Cause when you play 2, 3 or 4 man, the density increases accordingly, making it much much easier to complete.
For solo greater rifts, the density is so incredibly low that its border line redicilous.

So either increase density, by literally 100%, atleast.
Or reduce damage by around 50%.
Now 50% sounds alot right? Well when you have for example Vile temptress, or ghosts, at 95 plus that kills in one hit and will ignore everything you have around you, including nearly 20 pets, and homing missile capabilities, its not ok.

The primary reason people play diablo 3 is for greater rifts. The primary reason.
Either to level your gems, or for leaderboards, or the challenge with friends.

Ever thought why the difference in 4 man is so extremely different in gr levels achieved compared to solo leaderboards?
Sure the setup is important, zdps, mitigation etc.

You remember back is it a season or two? Where all you needed was 1 dps.
Well sure you gained alot from the various zdps classes that joined you however, density, density, density.

Greater rift fishing: Why are we forced to fish for greater rifsts. Why cant we just have maybe once in a while a bad rift?
Why does it need to be so that majority of rifts is utter crap due to density, bad types of mobs (trappers, vile temptress, archers, ghosts, assasins), where as you are LUCKY, if you find a managble rift with decent density.
And STILL its a gear check to have enough damage to make it through.
A good rift is by no means a cake walk and a free clear, no no, without proper auguments, gear, skills you will fail due to slacking in damage, you still need proper pylons and pray that the elite packs you face does not troll you with affixes that is utterly random with NO thought given from BLizzard that some elite affixes coupled with certain mobs make them near impossible to handle.

Its a lazy design, it will put off alot of new people from diablo, only the hardcore players sustain, fishing, fishing fishing for right mob and map, and even then its a slight chance they make it.
But majority of mob types and some maps its just not possible to beat unless you find power plus conduit near eachother every 50 yards, and you need to survive running to them, prerably would be shield plus conduit.

Group play is just so incredibly much easier, and I understand this of course but let us who try to push solo, give us a chance by ATLEAST increase the density.

When you face 3 mobs, run 50 yards, face another 3 mobs, and you need to kill them, as I said above, or even if you dont, you run forever trying to find something decent and personally, I have had entire rift floors without a single elite pack or pylon and no density what so ever.

its the point now that killing trash in solo is about one thing: How much time will I loose, a little, or alot. Cause you wont sure as heck gain any time from it.

And again, Im talking near gr 100 here or above. Below gr 90 mobs really do not hit so hard, sure they do but its manageble. But since its increased by % per gr level, it takes unproportaional levels in the end.

As the time sais: There is a reason Tranq Blood is top of the pops. And its NOT cause they out damage other classes. Its cause they do the only thing you need to do to progress now: Kill elites. All else is a waste of time.
Which is down to one thing: Bad design from BLizzard for Solo progress at the higheer greater rifts.
No, I do not think any of the Dev team actually plays Diablo 3 and if they do, they have not solo'd 90+ themselves.

They should balance the game around builds that let each class solo a GR100 if you ask me.

Then let groups who got stronger from such buffs start fighting over who will GR150 first.

Paragon never ends and GR cap is no where near being reached after a few years of the GR system. Something needs to change if you ask me.
If they fix gr up to 100-ish, you'd just complain about 110+
07/16/2017 10:41 AMPosted by Waagabond

I feel the implementation is lazy and I honestly wonder if Blizzard employees do greater rifts at near 100 themself?


The last step of season journey and unlocking primals is 70.
I think bliz consider that as end game, since it's essentially the last step taken to complete the journey.
Therefore they consider anything as being able to complete a 70 gr as viable.
And what they strive to make the sets be able to achieve as a minimum.
Any pushing further beyond that is purely optional to the player and is just available as content so people who want to continue progressing can do so.
It's not meant to be streamlined content for the masses.
07/16/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Lukenukem
If they fix gr up to 100-ish, you'd just complain about 110+


You did not read my post.

I do not mind failing a rift cause I lack damage, paragon points and am unable to push through, unable to kill the high density packs fast enough with my near single target damage spec.

The issue is two:
Density, Density, Density: The density in Solo greater rifts is extremly low.
Damage from trash: Damage from trash is so high that in order to move past them, you need to kill them. Not always, but too often, and having to kill those 3, 4 mobs loose you alot of time.

Once I find the ceiling where as I am unable to progress cause my damage is not there, Im ok.
Despite bad density thats seldom the case at the moment, the case is that I spend more time running then fighting. And sure if I could 1 shoot trash mobs its another story, but no one 1 shoots trash mobs at gr around 100.

The biggest frustration from me is the density. I can even manage the damage in most cases, despite it being out of proportion. But the high damage coupled with very low density means you are forced to deal with said trash mobs, cause they are too dangerous, but you will loose time in doing so, cause they are so incredibly few.

Density increases based on group size. Its a noticable difference in 2 man, not to talk about 3 and 4 man.
Just a note: Area damage on gear used to be THE THING.
It still is great in groups.
But look at solo specs of people, and you see very few stacking area damage now.
Unless your able to run past and somehow pick up some mobs, WW barb for example.
Even so, due to density we opt for single target.

Heck I even tried my necro with around 120% area damage.
It slowed me down like hell, who needs area damage when you fight 3, 4 mobs 9 out of 10 times.

Or you find a PACK, high density...of small spiderlings that gives 0.001% progress each:)
What's "tranq"?
07/16/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Lukenukem
If they fix gr up to 100-ish, you'd just complain about 110+


Just a note.

Mate, your P500 in softcore.
I really dont mind this but your experience of 95 plus rifts I assume is limited.
No offence but without constructive critisism from someone that like me and others run 95 to 100 plus rifts, you need experience from this mate in order to understand.

And as someone said: Its likely gr 70 is what they deem manageble from Blizzard.
As we all know, you just need around p500 to clear gr 70 with decent gear.

The issue is the Math.
They increase a set % for each gr level.
It becomes unproportional when you keep adding 15% +15%+15% in both damage and HP.
For HP, Im honestly fine. I want to hit the ceiling where my damage falls off, but the damage coupled with density is the main issue.

Its enough gear check to just kill in time.
Add in random affixes without any thought process behind more then "Its cool that its random".

And no, I doubt very much Blizzard employes play the game at higher greater rifts.
07/16/2017 10:41 AMPosted by Waagabond
Lets talk about Greater rift gr 90 plus, especaially 95 plus.

There is a reason Tranq blood performs ontop right now, and its NOT due to them doing more burst then my rathma.

With Rathma using Frozen land and Simulacrum, I will burst down elites faster then Tranq blood can.

However, I lack the possibility to skip too much trash mobs, I need to wade through greater rifts, which are increased in % based on previous rift, to the point where Trash damage becomes unmanagable.


And this to me is the problem with the game, just skipping piles of monsters to get to the desired target.

The system should allow for a swift movement through a rift killing everything in sight in order to succeed, not play "I Spy with my eye" in reference to elite packs....
The season journey end goal is like rift 70-75. You are talking about WELL beyond that. I have seen no indication that high GR's are supported or that the game is in fact based around them. If you want to do them that's great, good for you. However just because endlessly scaling numbers are available in this game does NOT mean that is the point or goal or purpose of it.
07/16/2017 11:45 AMPosted by Necksnapper
The season journey end goal is like rift 70-75. You are talking about WELL beyond that. I have seen no indication that high GR's are supported or that the game is in fact based around them. If you want to do them that's great, good for you. However just because endlessly scaling numbers are available in this game does NOT mean that is the point or goal or purpose of it.


You're saying that any kind of real endgame is pointless, then?
Trags only really performs from a dps standpoint,super squishy and gimmicky though. Imo necro is unbalanced in general you either are always waiting for cd or your trading survivability for enough dps to clear. Hit hard and die constantly to clear higher grs or never clear high grs with rathmas or inarius and pestilence set isnt even in the running. Doing better with dh impale that hasnt changed in months than i am with any of the necro builds. Its kinda sad but the necro already feels like a huge disappointment and the season hasnt even started.
you need to clarify what you mean by density. your complaints meander and are confusing. there isn't enough density yet white mobs hit too hard.. how are those two related at all? do you mean there needs to be more elite packs? white mobs need to give more progress? what exactly is your problem
Trash or white/common enemy should give more progression toward GR clear , like someone mentioned it should rly be a kill everything you see to clear it fast, not race towards each elite packs .

Has for solo density , sure its awfull half the time , but monster type are rly awfull .. one rift , all bees and archers/trappers , took 13mins , the one after all melee/no running away monsters , took 4min56... same difficulty , same gear -.-
07/16/2017 11:26 AMPosted by Waagabond
07/16/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Lukenukem
If they fix gr up to 100-ish, you'd just complain about 110+


You did not read my post.

I do not mind failing a rift cause I lack damage, paragon points and am unable to push through, unable to kill the high density packs fast enough with my near single target damage spec.

The issue is two:
Density, Density, Density: The density in Solo greater rifts is extremly low.
Damage from trash: Damage from trash is so high that in order to move past them, you need to kill them. Not always, but too often, and having to kill those 3, 4 mobs loose you alot of time.

Once I find the ceiling where as I am unable to progress cause my damage is not there, Im ok.
Despite bad density thats seldom the case at the moment, the case is that I spend more time running then fighting. And sure if I could 1 shoot trash mobs its another story, but no one 1 shoots trash mobs at gr around 100.

The biggest frustration from me is the density. I can even manage the damage in most cases, despite it being out of proportion. But the high damage coupled with very low density means you are forced to deal with said trash mobs, cause they are too dangerous, but you will loose time in doing so, cause they are so incredibly few.

Density increases based on group size. Its a noticable difference in 2 man, not to talk about 3 and 4 man.


Denisity is pretty broke.

There's the odd occasion I enter a GR and instantly spawn merked by lots of whites, blues and yellows.

Other times I can go up to a minute with seeing a rare/elite pack.

Worst part is when you find a good density and you see its all juggernaut...
07/16/2017 12:11 PMPosted by Shiki
07/16/2017 11:45 AMPosted by Necksnapper
The season journey end goal is like rift 70-75. You are talking about WELL beyond that. I have seen no indication that high GR's are supported or that the game is in fact based around them. If you want to do them that's great, good for you. However just because endlessly scaling numbers are available in this game does NOT mean that is the point or goal or purpose of it.


You're saying that any kind of real endgame is pointless, then?


We live in a age where the generation now wants everything dumbed down, over simplified and all get trophies. I've watched the sandbox aspects of a lot games just evaporate. Some games you buy and that same day you finish. I don't see D3 as quite that pathetic but there isn't any end game. Do the season journey, maybe some achievements if bored and done for a couple months. End game would be really great. In the past for this series it was two things, trading and PVP. NEITHER of those things exist. Combine that with easy to obtain loot and what is there to do? You can min/max gear for eternity if you wanted. You could push rift 100 or something but that is a means to do what? If that was fun, I would still be playing pac man. Anyhow I doubt the developers min/max or push 100's either.

I do not mind failing a rift cause I lack damage, paragon points and am unable to push through, unable to kill the high density packs fast enough with my near single target damage spec.

(Snip)

Damage from trash: Damage from trash is so high that in order to move past them, you need to kill them. Not always, but too often, and having to kill those 3, 4 mobs loose you alot of time.

(Snip)

And sure if I could 1 shoot trash mobs its another story, but no one 1 shoots trash mobs at gr around 100.

[/quote]

I never had a GR 50, 60, 70 where there simply weren't enough mobs to finish the progress, while my damage was high enough to kill everything.

Soooo... if you can't finish it in time it is EXACTLY because you lack damage, and only because you lack damage. Or better said, the amount of damage+survivability is not enough.

Mobility is part of survivability, as you stated yourself the blood set doesn't do the pure burst damage Rathma can do, but has more survivability. And the result of both lets Trang'Oul come out on top.

If you had twenty times your damage, you could kill the trash as well and gain progress through that. So in the end, you do lack damage, paragon points and thus are unable to push through...so you should be okay with it as you said yourself?
07/16/2017 10:41 AMPosted by Waagabond
I honestly wonder if Blizzard employees do greater rifts at near 100 themself?


Indeed one of the main factors as to why D3 is not what it should be.
07/16/2017 12:32 PMPosted by Jars
you need to clarify what you mean by density. your complaints meander and are confusing. there isn't enough density yet white mobs hit too hard.. how are those two related at all? do you mean there needs to be more elite packs? white mobs need to give more progress? what exactly is your problem


The problem here is that you have a hard time skipping.
You need to deal with the few white mobs especially ranged cause otherwise they kill you.
However, in doing this, you loose immense progress cause you stand there trying to kill 3, 4 mobs, if it was 20 of them, I rather die to being overwhelmed then dying cause Im trying to pass them to hopefully more density or an elite pack.
07/16/2017 02:05 PMPosted by Elgareth

I do not mind failing a rift cause I lack damage, paragon points and am unable to push through, unable to kill the high density packs fast enough with my near single target damage spec.

(Snip)

Damage from trash: Damage from trash is so high that in order to move past them, you need to kill them. Not always, but too often, and having to kill those 3, 4 mobs loose you alot of time.

(Snip)

And sure if I could 1 shoot trash mobs its another story, but no one 1 shoots trash mobs at gr around 100.



I never had a GR 50, 60, 70 where there simply weren't enough mobs to finish the progress, while my damage was high enough to kill everything.

Soooo... if you can't finish it in time it is EXACTLY because you lack damage, and only because you lack damage. Or better said, the amount of damage+survivability is not enough.

Mobility is part of survivability, as you stated yourself the blood set doesn't do the pure burst damage Rathma can do, but has more survivability. And the result of both lets Trang'Oul come out on top.

If you had twenty times your damage, you could kill the trash as well and gain progress through that. So in the end, you do lack damage, paragon points and thus are unable to push through...so you should be okay with it as you said yourself?[/quote]

In 50, 60, 70 You run through without taking too much damage and as such you will think its high density cause you run around 1 shooting mobs.
The white trash is extremly seldom dangerous at those very low levels.
I can lol around with whatever spec I want and clear this.
Im talking about 90 plus and especially 95 plus greater rifts.
Try doing a gr 100 with too much survivability items and skills and your damage will fall off so hard you cant clear it.
Again, I dont mind being more glass cannon but density is low and trash mobs are so dangerous that skipping is hard.

Blood set have not more survivabilty as per set, but they have better mobility with the Blood Rush rune.

Rathma as an example, have a none existent 2p bonus, no one uses it (like Barbs Wrath set...no one uses Rend), the 4P bonus takes forever to get to 50 for 50% dr, but I can live with this.

We are talking here about that High level greater rifts is all about elite hunting.
For any class. And its NOT cause its easier to kill.
Even WITHOUT long cool downs I rather fight elites, cause they GIVE PROGRESS.
Trash mobs, depending on type, in general, give minimal progress. But some trash mobs hits harder then the most nasty elite packs. Vile Temptress comes to mind.

DH Impale can do this cause they sit on a redicilous amount of damage reduction and even with that DR, they still are in a world of hurt from certain trash mobs.

Greater Rifts is Diablo 3s end game as far as Im concerned.
Why else would there even be leaderboards.
Yes Im on leaderboards, in softcore less so, just in the top 300 since Im just P1200.
In Seasons I usually am around top 25, or even nabbed top 5 a few times.

Atleast for me, Diablo 3 is all about farming gear, leveling gems, and trying it out in Greater Rifts.
GRs is for me the only reason, like many others, why we still play diablo 3.
And fine tuning the gear to push those extra levels.

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