If Blizz really believed in the slogan "Play your way"

General Discussion
07/23/2017 10:57 AMPosted by Shurgosa
And if we get to the state of balance where all things are equally desired, what has effectively been done is that any trace of evidence that D3 is anything close to an RPG will have been completely eradicated, because the choices players would make, would have no rewards or consequences.


This isn't true at all. If we get to the state of balance, where all things are equally desired, then I can play in the way I want to play. I can play the character, the role, that *I* want to play, not the one Blizzard says is acceptable.

It's an interesting paradox, making the player's choices not matter at all makes them matter the most. A lot of people complained about Firewatch like that, but after I read a few divergent opinions on the matter, I came to agree that it's one of the best RPGs there is because your choices *are* important, they're everything to the game! That they don't affect the outcome is irrelevant.
07/23/2017 11:12 AMPosted by cknopp
Ramaladni's Gift of Royal Grandeur

Apply to any non set ancient legendary, and that piece will count as the 6th item of any currently equipped set.


This seems like an awesome idea.
07/23/2017 11:33 AMPosted by HelloKitty
"Powerful" and "OP" are both relative terms, meaning that they depend on what the highest-tier or fastest builds are capable of. "Balanced" is not when every item combination performs the same, but when items perform at the level they are intended to perform at. With that said, not every item or skill in the game is designed to clear Greater Rift 100+, and if they were, there would be significantly less thinking involved to making a build.


Yeah, here's the thing. What we have here is end game items that perform not 5% better or 10% better, but literally thousands of percentages better than just about any other similar item. How much thinking does it take when your choice is limited to a pea shooter and a tactical nuke?
The developers have indeed told people what and how to play. Those instructions are in the set bonuses. Want to play a wizard? Put on Tal's and rotate 4 different elements while trying to stay in Archon as long as possible.


That's an unusual perspective you have there. I thought developers intended you to play Archon with the Vyrs set? After all, the instructions are in the set bonus and uhh, Tal Rasha and Firebirds don't say jack about Archon while Vyrs does. Archon doesn't even work correctly with Tal Rasha since you can't actually rotate the other elements. You lose the full Tal Rasha bonus in Archon after a short time. Yeah, that's written in the Tal Rasha bonus... Sure. I wager the developers did not intend the Firebirds Archon or the Tal Rasha Archon and neither set has their unusual, set bonus-defeating, playstyle written in the set bonuses as you claim.

Nobody cares what the developers intended. It's really a hunt for more damage multipliers. The Fazulas belt gives you an instant and unconditional 300%+ increased in damage, massive damage mitigation, and +50% increased attack speed from 4pc Vyrs to get even more Paralysis procs in less time. And there's really nothing that can compete with that. Not even something like Krysbins can compete with that belt. The belt and skill are practically mandatory because the game is mostly all about more damage. To make matters slightly worse, throw in Swami for overlapping Archon stacks. Almost any build you can think of are made substantially better with a belt, helmet and Archon. You do more damage either in or out of Archon either way. At the very least, the belt needs to be changed or needs to go entirely.
Sadly there have been many great, thoughtful, detailed and unique ideas offered over the last, 5 years that would enhance build variety, but Blizzard for some reason we can't really figure out has not considered it.

LoN almost saved the day, but then it wasn't playing Blizzard's way, so nerfhammer struck and here we are chasing those sets and complementing bits... [b][/b]
Sets are a fantastic implementation to this game. Dont like them .. Gear for LON.
Vanilla was complete trash and anything Pre Loot 2.0 almost destroyed this game from any form of recovery.

That is all
07/23/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Petersen
This isn't true at all. If we get to the state of balance, where all things are equally desired, then I can play in the way I want to play. I can play the character, the role, that *I* want to play, not the one Blizzard says is acceptable.

It's an interesting paradox, making the player's choices not matter at all makes them matter the most. A lot of people complained about Firewatch like that, but after I read a few divergent opinions on the matter, I came to agree that it's one of the best RPGs there is because your choices *are* important, they're everything to the game! That they don't affect the outcome is irrelevant.


Ignoring the idea that you only quoted half of my post and forgot to include the paragraph that CLEARLY explains that we are talking about mathematical desire because it is what exclusively drives your character's performance in the game world of Diablo 3, and that this notion is an intensely far cry from the concept of desire as it relates to human perception overall....

Which was what you were explaining here....when all things are perceived by the player as desirable the player desires "everything"...

If your choices "don't matter" in Firewatch then how can you possibly argue that they are important....?

And please, for the love of all that is good and pure, don't say "because I perceive them to be important......"
The game's current set-up is really all about itemization at this point; how one plays the way "s/he wants" would be dependent on the gear you get. Personally I don't mind it, but if one wants a change - then it's likely to be another expense for Blizzard, and something that the playerbase is likely to spend on.

Maybe if they changed the way paragon system currently is, then perhaps it could have been different but it would require a lot of change (and money). For example, Paragon could've been the game's "skill mastery tree" - where you increase a skill's damage or range or healing capacity for each level you gain. But doing so, they would have to remove damage bonuses from the legendary (and set) items and focus more on giving these items unique affixes/ abilities.

A change like the one I mentioned above would be a huge change in the game's mechanics and will unfortunately, require Blizzard money to change. So, unless there's a major expansion coming up - I don't think we'll see any relevant changes to the maps and/or acts. That, or Blizzard goes for micro-transactions.
07/23/2017 10:57 AMPosted by Shurgosa
The issue goes deeper than that. The idiots made a game where the only thing players care about is accumulating is damage.

Therefore, while what you describe is far more entertaining than what the idiots have come up with so far (because it is "what they have come up with" and ADDITIONAL items that compete damage wise, on top...)

It still will suffer from the ailment that they entire game is infected with;
items either contribute enough damage that they are desirable or they fail to do so and they are nothing but trash. Leading to players just carbon copying eachothers' builds.

And if we get to the state of balance where all things are equally desired, what has effectively been done is that any trace of evidence that D3 is anything close to an RPG will have been completely eradicated, because the choices players would make, would have no rewards or consequences.

But do not be let down. You are still better than them with your forward thinking and wanting to even think about applying attractive bonuses to items, because even though it may still be contained in their massively flawed game it is something better than what they themselves could come up with.

in fact many of the forum goers are better smarter and more concerned with the well being of D3, than any of the devs or big decision makers...


Sadly you speak truth friend
07/23/2017 10:57 AMPosted by Shurgosa
The issue goes deeper than that. The idiots made a game where the only thing players care about is accumulating is damage.

Therefore, while what you describe is far more entertaining than what the idiots have come up with so far (because it is "what they have come up with" and ADDITIONAL items that compete damage wise, on top...)

It still will suffer from the ailment that they entire game is infected with;
items either contribute enough damage that they are desirable or they fail to do so and they are nothing but trash. Leading to players just carbon copying eachothers' builds.

And if we get to the state of balance where all things are equally desired, what has effectively been done is that any trace of evidence that D3 is anything close to an RPG will have been completely eradicated, because the choices players would make, would have no rewards or consequences.

But do not be let down. You are still better than them with your forward thinking and wanting to even think about applying attractive bonuses to items, because even though it may still be contained in their massively flawed game it is something better than what they themselves could come up with.

in fact many of the forum goers are better smarter and more concerned with the well being of D3, than any of the devs or big decision makers...

The reason it all boils down to more damage is because the end game is a dps race time trial that scales infinitely. The only limit is how much damage you can put out in time.
07/23/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Cayenne
The reason it all boils down to more damage is because the end game is a dps race time trial that scales infinitely. The only limit is how much damage you can put out in time.


uh, yes Gump....I know that........
It's bad enough set items doing 3000% weapon damage this or 800% damage that all but ruins build diversity at the end game.

There are other symptoms (not limited to the following) that shows just how badly designed the itemization system really is:

- A number of legendary items that don't have anything at all:
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/flesh-tearer

- Legendary items so terrible they might as well be what is above:
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/deathseers-cowl

- There are some active skills and passive skills that don't have any complementary legendary item that makes them end-game useful.

Players should have a choice from a massive assortment of weird, wacky and powerful items to choose from to make their characters their own at any stage of the game. Instead, we get the opposite of that. Few useful items that to use in builds that are spoon fed to the players.
07/23/2017 09:11 PMPosted by Shurgosa
07/23/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Cayenne
The reason it all boils down to more damage is because the end game is a dps race time trial that scales infinitely. The only limit is how much damage you can put out in time.


uh, yes Gump....I know that........

Yep, I'm agreeing with you.
they are not able to balance sets, so no chance that they have the courage to try to create a "play your way" alternative.
Sets are what breaks this.

Like, there needs to be more 2/4 piece sets, these six piece sets are mostly so op they make everyother option useless.

Tal Rasha's is a good set, its lets you have a lots of options, most sets tho not as much.

Just everything about sets in this game is wrong
07/23/2017 03:56 PMPosted by Headsoup
Sadly there have been many great, thoughtful, detailed and unique ideas offered over the last, 5 years that would enhance build variety, but Blizzard for some reason we can't really figure out has not considered it.

LoN almost saved the day, but then it wasn't playing Blizzard's way, so nerfhammer struck and here we are chasing those sets and complementing bits... [b][/b]


It is because they have been 'trying' to improve communication for the last half decade.
it's more like, "you give us money, we'll tell your sorry asses how to play our game"

Blizzard: Communistic business since 2012 (D3 launch)
Main problems:
Lack of diversity.

There is only DPS vs. Health.

All skills are DPS skills or crowd control.

There are no monsters who are harder to kill for melee or ranged, or harder to kill with spells than weapons.

Only 99.99% damage reduction;
No monsters that are more dangerous for a character without a shield, or a ranged character.

No offensive diveristy.
No defensive diversity.

It's like a game designed by Ludo players, for Ludo players.
You don't design sets to enforce specific build and gameplay types on your player base and then say "Play your way!". People should just say FU and move on.
07/23/2017 11:45 AMPosted by Alukat
07/23/2017 11:33 AMPosted by HelloKitty
With that said, not every item or skill in the game is designed to clear Greater Rift 100+, and if they were, there would be significantly less thinking involved to making a build.


The opposite is true.
When you can see that something is obviously overpowered, then you don't have to spend much thought to find the best.
However, if everythings quite balanced, then you have to spend quite some thought into figuring out the skill- and itemcombinations that work well.

The only reason items are considered OP is because of the ladder, if there was no ladder people could play their way, the only people complaining of items being OP and items need balancing, are the leaderboard chasers and them wanting to wear nothing and still be on top.
Strange how there was no such thing as OP and people could play their way, right up until the leaderboards were created and now all people do is complain about the game and how some things are better than others.
Downvote all you want, doesn't change the fact that OP wasn't a thing until leaderboards and the chasers want to wear junk instead of the best, to get to the top of the leaderboard

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