Rathma Push Tank Guide (GR 100+)

Necromancer
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@HunterKiller
I don't mind the purpose here, i´m interested in the mechanic and functionality behind and there is an ongoing issue in combination wiht 'Jesseth Arms' set, which forces you to spend unnecessary essence every time (which you rather would spend for singularity mages), since you only receive the 0.5% heal bonus then you use 'active Command Skeleton' over and over again to target different monster.

But in fact 'Jesseth Arms' should prevent exactly this oaccasion (essence-waste)
as long you have nearby targets to attack, unfortunally you dont recieve any heal
from 'Dark Mending' after the autotarget triggers.
When the target of your Command Skeletons dies, your skeletons are automatically commanded to attack a nearby target.
Evidence
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170817/3778sglp.jpg
I've been running without enforcer this last week, I haven't noticed a difference with the pets dying more or doing any noticeably less damage.

I'm playing with a variety of gems leveling them all up at the same time as my next short term goal is to get three to 70.

(I ate up my 60s for yummy extra int on some ancients).

That's something to think about (there are better gems than enforcer for necromancers!)
To Lugh. 70 is so low that any or no legendary gems probably will do. Since Mages do all damage Enforcer is a must. Mages can also die when the difficulty goes up. Stricken is a bad choice. It only affects one enemy at the time and you should have enough damage to kill the rift guardian without it. Your profile shows that you still have some way to go before you have the build KevinT has put up in the start of this thread.
Not just 'Bane of the Stricken' only affect one enemy at the time, pets/minions do not stack 'Bane of the Stricken' either. Of course they do benefit from stacks you apply by yourself with skill X. Not a good choice overall and i highly doubt it is a wise decision to dismiss 'Enforcer' with pet/minion based builds at all.
08/17/2017 06:17 AMPosted by Loque
I don't mind the purpose here, i´m interested in the mechanic and functionality behind and there is an ongoing issue in combination wiht 'Jesseth Arms' set, which forces you to spend unnecessary essence every time (which you rather would spend for singularity mages), since you only receive the 0.5% heal bonus then you use 'active Command Skeleton' over and over again to target different monster.


Yes I understand, I'm just saying there is no better option so we just have to deal with it until they fix the bug.
08/17/2017 04:57 AMPosted by HunterKiller
08/17/2017 04:30 AMPosted by Loque
@KevinTSmith
I highly recommend you do not run 'Command Skeletons - Dark Mending'
in combination with "Jesseth Arms' set right now, heal is bugged with auto-targeting from Jesseth set. See 4.2 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20757637202#post-1


It's only used to counter the health drain from Haunted Visions in high GR, even though you have to manually cast it from time to time.


This. There's enough CC with Decrepify and Bone Spikes so cold skellies aren't that useful. Just manually recast Command after popping Simulacrum and keep rolling. It really does work.
@HunterKiller
Sadly but true. Recent PTR Patch Notes missing this issue.

But as far as i can imagine there should be at least one halfway-decent option left (probably with some sort of drawback(s) either)
-> playing with 'Command Skeletons - Freezing Grasp' (instead of Dark Mending), that helps with Krysbin's triple bonus
-> use 'Bone Armor - Thy Flesh Sustained' (instead of Simulacrum) combined with 'Molten Wildebeest's Gizzard' (instead of Zeis or Eso) to sustain heal throughout the rift, spoken by that it is naturally a more defensive approach with probably the cost of some offensive multipliers (probably not worth for high end solo pushes, since you need the damage).

@KevinTSmith
Well, since you probably way more experienced with playing with that setup than me (i am more of a theorycraft guy) and your argument about the adequate CC skills like Decrep and Bone Spikes naturally make sense, i´m not deny your statement that Dark Mending works if you use it "correctly" by actively re-targeting 'Command Skeletons' by your needs. But good to here you can play around the downsides of this issue/bug in the field too, even that comes by paying the price to spend unnecessary essence cost, which you shouldn't be pay with 'Jesseth Arms' set combined.

Thanks for the discussion!
Greetings
Loque
Thankfully it will all be fixed next update. For now we just have to play around it however we can. I actually started a separate thread about the best ways to do that in the meantime.

About the defensive setup...

I think that would work just fine if you are farming medium-hard rifts for gems and don't want to die. If you're pushing your limits though you simply can't afford to use that many defensive abilities. You won't be able to beat the clock.

The name of the game for this build is to find that sweet spot between max DPS and just enough survivability to survive unavoidable damage and not get one shot by thunderstorm etc. Vs the glass cannon full offense build. The rest is smart positioning and some rift luck to push.
08/17/2017 06:51 AMPosted by Jazz
To Lugh. 70 is so low that any or no legendary gems probably will do. Since Mages do all damage Enforcer is a must. Mages can also die when the difficulty goes up. Stricken is a bad choice. It only affects one enemy at the time and you should have enough damage to kill the rift guardian without it. Your profile shows that you still have some way to go before you have the build KevinT has put up in the start of this thread.

Correct. I don't have tons of time, and need to get maximized stuff done. I ate three 60 level gems to augment three ancients, I am playing about for fun with other things to see if perhaps off the beaten path things can indeed work.

I'm not in a position to to push higher because of the instant gratification of getting the Tab goal out of the way.

I'd really like to see if one of the other gems makes more of a difference for me.

I had no idea that Stricken only affects one enemy at a time. Thanks!
08/17/2017 10:46 AMPosted by Lugh

I'm not in a position to to push higher because of the instant gratification of getting the Tab goal out of the way.

I'd really like to see if one of the other gems makes more of a difference for me.

I had no idea that Stricken only affects one enemy at a time. Thanks!


Look at Kevin's setup
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/94201-rathma-push-tank-gr-98
and change your skills accordingly. That'll get you a long way even if you dont have Travelers Pledge and Compass Rose yet. You can try and use Grisly tribute instead of extended servitude for more survivability. You should use bane of the trapped, enforcer and zei's or esoteric.
I'm all for build experimenting, but, any mage build without Enforcer just doesn't make sense. Sorry. Bane of the Trapped is also too good not to use in pretty much any build.

That leaves the 3rd gem slot open for experimentation. Personally I think the only 2 choices that make sense for this build are Zeis (More dps) and Esoteric Alteration (toughness). My general rule would be use Esoteric as long as you can until you hit the DPS wall then switch to Zeis.

You could consider Wildebeest Gizzard I suppose but there is no room in this particular build for the regen passive so eh. I think esoteric does a better job at covering our biggest weakness: being one shot.

I've also though about pain enhancer recently but the problem there is we need to be within 20 yards for the secondary to work and that directly contradicts the Rathma playstyle.
08/17/2017 08:25 AMPosted by Loque
But as far as i can imagine there should be at least one halfway-decent option left (probably with some sort of drawback(s) either)
-> playing with 'Command Skeletons - Freezing Grasp' (instead of Dark Mending), that helps with Krysbin's triple bonus


I still use Freezing Grasp most of the time, since I only use Dark Mending when I'm pushing with Haunted Visions. It was a recent change I made in order to clear GR 104.

One thing you have to understand is that instead of letting Jesseth do its auto-cast, Freezing Grasp should be manually cast on tactical targets like Exorcists that often teleport right next to you. So the extra essence cost from being forced to manually cast Dark Mending doesn't really matter that much.

-> use 'Bone Armor - Thy Flesh Sustained' (instead of Simulacrum) combined with 'Molten Wildebeest's Gizzard' (instead of Zeis or Eso) to sustain heal throughout the rift, spoken by that it is naturally a more defensive approach with probably the cost of some offensive multipliers (probably not worth for high end solo pushes, since you need the damage).


Exactly, the focus here is pushing so I can't afford to lose Zei, and there is no skill slot for Bone Armor unless I switch to Scythe of the Cycle and phylactery.
I've been experimenting with SotC and Final Service procs are just way too punishing to push with it. Losing all your mages during any fight is gg. You might survive but if it happens more than once or twice you are toast against the clock.

I utilize Final Service regularly. Sometimes on purpose to get positioning. Too risky and punishing to use SotC IMO.
I think we all agree Freeing Grasp has more utility but...

The life drain while playing with HV/CoE without Dark Mending is actually really noticeable and leads to dangerous one shot situations.

You never notice the drain in other builds because LotD/Devour or Gizzard covers it up.
08/17/2017 04:14 AMPosted by KevinTSmith
@Cotrangus:

You've got a good start and 97 is solid play with your gear. A few things I noticed glancing quickly:

- You do need more CDR but not much. I think 35% is enough so just 1 more item. You don't want it on your weapon...ias, int, damage is perfect. You can roll more on your shield and elsewhere.

- You are short some int at 15,500. Your priority should be to get full ancient/augmented gear (at least level 80, pref 90+). Get that to 17,000+ and you'll notice a good dps and toughness increase (via resists).

- You're low on VIT. 640k is way too low. I'd shoot for 900k. That way with satiated you'll be about 1.3 million hp. That coupled with increased resists should prevent you from getting 1 shot by unavoidable affixes. You will be 2 shot, but this way you have a chance to move.

- Does lotd really help you? Think about it. It's easy to generate essence without it. I strongly suggest trying dayntees binding and Decrepify instead. Mitigation from the curse and the belt as well as more stuns for krysbins procs and just plain cc is good.

I'm at about 19,000 INT, 900k hp, 2300+ all resists, and I use decrep/dayntees and I do not get 1 shot ever by effects up through GR 100...with the exception of a few RG skills. Gotta work on your dodgeball skills :).

I think I have the right rolls on all my gear if you'd like an idea what to shoot for...%life and armor are arguable on chest/shoulders based on need. MS on boots also arguable. Only thing I'm looking for is an int, chc, mages, socket helm. (At some point past 102/103 it's time to go more glass cannon to keep up with the DPS wall).


-I thought the idea was to get as much CDR as possible to get your Simulacrum down as much as possible since it is up for 30 sec with HV.

-Yea with current gear I could pick up another 190 Caldesann's (or 950 Int) so that puts me around 16,450...really need Ancient Belt/Ring/Ammy

-VIT will be tough to get without better rolled Ancients....missing 1000 on gloves by using my Primal gloves.

-LotD, this has been a back and forth battle. Like I said in my OP, I have tried both Tanky (with Dayntee and Decrepify) and Glass (LotD and Witching Hour). Both perform the same as neither have been able to get me through 98. But, there are times when a good LotD combined with Sim can clear out the double packs we sometimes get and keep them locked in place while doing so.

Thanks for the look over.
Have you tried Eye of Etlich/CoE instead of Travelers? The difference is positively noticeable. I run a lot of 95s this way but without simulacrum.
08/18/2017 08:28 AMPosted by Dareiznogod
Have you tried Eye of Etlich/CoE instead of Travelers? The difference is positively noticeable. I run a lot of 95s this way but without simulacrum.


Hrm, may be worth trying out with a good enough Ranged Damage Decrease. I found this resource that tells us what damage is ranged but only for Elite Affixes, but I am not sure if it is still accurate:

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/91166-elite-affixes-types-and-damage-reduction-mechanics

Also, I wonder if enemies that leap on you are considered ranged attacks lol...that would be great.
Id imagine it's certainly more tanky and it's in interesting idea. Perhaps its a gem farming option to make sure you survive and keep that 5th upgrade?

My only question is where is your DPS coming from for tough/double pack situations and RG burn at GR 100? Whenever I drop both LotD and Sim the clock is enemy number 1.
Update on 'Command Skeletons - Dark Mending', which you probably will like ;)
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20757637202?page=13#post-243

Note this was not documented in the recent PTR patch notes.
https://us.battle.net//d3/en/blog/20976068
08/20/2017 04:45 AMPosted by Loque
Update on 'Command Skeletons - Dark Mending', which you probably will like ;)
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20757637202?page=13#post-243

Note this was not documented in the recent PTR patch notes.
https://us.battle.net//d3/en/blog/20976068


Muy bueno, this is delicious!

I've been switching between dark mending and freeze the last few days. Honestly not sure which is better, it really depends on how nasty the packs are and if they really need CC.

I'm personally favoring Dark Mending still with HV/CoE.

Been trying to record a 100 clear to post but the Rift RnG gods don't like me lately. Nothing but mazes and juggernauts!

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