What If Greater Rifts didn't have timers...

General Discussion
08/03/2017 07:25 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
I think a more interesting way of making survival important is to make death = failure in GRs. Keep the timer, add death as a crucial thing to avoid, and those high GR clears suddenly become more impressive.

The biggest problem with GRs and clear times still remains though: fishing. Until Blizzard creates a sort of standardize GR for those that compete, fishing is still the most important part of ranking on the LB.

And to spoil the ending, Blizzard is never going to fix that.


You can't have survival *AND* DPS in the same iteration with current game design. It's always a balancing act of affixes. Besides, no matter how high your survival is you will eventually hit a point where you still get one shot. At that point it's not about survival but about avoidance. If avoidance = survival there's no point behind investing in toughness.

Which is how we end up with D3's meta remaining unchanged since launch day. DPS is king in D3. It always has been and always will be. Maybe D4 (if there ever is one) will change that?
08/04/2017 12:59 AMPosted by wahskcirt
08/03/2017 07:25 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
I think a more interesting way of making survival important is to make death = failure in GRs. Keep the timer, add death as a crucial thing to avoid, and those high GR clears suddenly become more impressive.

The biggest problem with GRs and clear times still remains though: fishing. Until Blizzard creates a sort of standardize GR for those that compete, fishing is still the most important part of ranking on the LB.

And to spoil the ending, Blizzard is never going to fix that.


You can't have survival *AND* DPS in the same iteration with current game design. It's always a balancing act of affixes. Besides, no matter how high your survival is you will eventually hit a point where you still get one shot. At that point it's not about survival but about avoidance. If avoidance = survival there's no point behind investing in toughness.

Which is how we end up with D3's meta remaining unchanged since launch day. DPS is king in D3. It always has been and always will be. Maybe D4 (if there ever is one) will change that?


That's why you marry the two by making death a defeating blow instead of a blip on a timer. DPS and mitigation can coexist then because it creates a layered success. DPS to kill quickly, survival to complete, avoidance to show a separation of skill.

You can remove GR timers if death is made a factor. Like you say, the system will naturally cap itself by way of one-shots. But then you create a scenario where people are competing in that final top-tier regime where they're trying to clear a narrow band of GR levels faster than the other, not higher.

But none of that can flourish in a system where fishing/RNG is the determining factor for success. In season 1, Blizzard made it very clear they were never going to remove that element of GRs, so it's all pointless discussion at this point. The system will stay as is.
It would be fantastic to get the gem upgrades from a grift which goes beyond the 15 minutes but is cleared without deaths.

While we usually die in failing rifts, this would make us to take more difficult grifts and focus more on surviving.

These clears could also raise the available grift levels if being highest one in order to allow a whole different playstyle for rifts. Also making defense builds more viable.
The timer is needed to protect gamers from their masochistic tendencies.

Imagine the exponential increase in the grind facor if players could upgrade gems by taking a tank through a 6 hour GR 140. Many players would feel compelled to play this grueling new meta.

Let's not forget that gems used to be upgradeable even if the players failed to make the timer when GRs were first introduced. This led to 1-2 hour GRs that were about as fun as eating nails. Let us also remember that the max GR someone could do at that time was controlled by the keystone trials, which everyone hated. We have no such control now other than the timer, thus if it were ignored for gem upgrades, it would necessarily lead to an absolutely painful meta.

The timer is vital for setting the pace of combat in an infinitely scaling environment.

P.S. For people that want death and survivability to matter, we have Hardcore mode for that. Play it, it's really fun, but can really punishing when you lose a character.
With no timers everyone would have 150 level gems.
08/04/2017 08:30 AMPosted by BĄŋŋƐĐ
With no timers everyone would have 150 level gems.


No. With no timers the forums would flood with players saying they're "FORCED!" to run GRs they hate to level gems they're tired of using for builds they don't like to rank on leaderboards that don't mean anything.
08/04/2017 07:44 AMPosted by RedCell
Imagine the exponential increase in the grind facor if players could upgrade gems by taking a tank through a 6 hour GR 140.


As opposed to grinding hundred of GRs to get 1%?

If someone's willing to dedicate that much time for a single GR, more power to them... You might have 0.01% of the playerbase who's crazy enough to do this. If someone came to me and said "I want you to play ZDPS. Gets your drinks and portable toilet, we're spending 6 hours to complete it", I would tell them to gtfo and get a life.

If they create a new and rewarding end-game that competes against GR, I wouldn't give a damn about someone spending hours to complete a single Rift.
I would have to say without the timers there would be no challenge you could stay in the rift as long as you wanted.
08/04/2017 08:51 AMPosted by DoomBringer
As opposed to grinding hundred of GRs to get 1%?


Those aren't comparable.

Those 1% rolls are still in the normal 15 minute rifts.

Those 1% rolls are very small rewards and aren't ever needed by anyone except for those at the top of the LB. It's not mandatory or significant to any other part of GR pushing.

Those 1% rolls can at most raise your gems by 1 level.
What exactly does an Empowered rift do?

Why not utilize this somehow so that with empowered rifts, you get a shorter timer, but increased payoff at the end, like with say greater quantity of loot and another chance or two to roll a Gem?

Right now a Gr that you don't die, you get +1 roll chance. Empowered one cleared in time with no death gets you +2 with a higher threshold for less gem upgrade failure maybe?
08/04/2017 07:26 PMPosted by Mercury
08/04/2017 08:51 AMPosted by DoomBringer
As opposed to grinding hundred of GRs to get 1%?


Those aren't comparable.

Those 1% rolls are still in the normal 15 minute rifts.

Those 1% rolls are very small rewards and aren't ever needed by anyone except for those at the top of the LB. It's not mandatory or significant to any other part of GR pushing.

Those 1% rolls can at most raise your gems by 1 level.


Yeah, but that 1% would require a huge amount of GR. Even if they take 15 minutes each, the amount of time required would be in the hours.

I merely made the parallel that in both case, it would take hours. Naturally, with the 1% case, it is spread across multiple days. In the case of the longer GR, it is condensed.

Personally, I would rather see another end-game activity that is not timed but is rewarding. Alas, we cannot find this at the moment. I would ditch GR within a heartbeat for an activity outside of GR (or Rift in general) that is nearly as rewarding.
Personally i think its good the way it is. There is still a balance between dps and survivability as deaths soon eat away at the progress timmers. The top clears are pure glass cannon and these guys fish and rely on pure skill to stay alive. Thats why there the best. I like to be a bit more tanky for my own sanity though.
That would be a very bad idea. You are underestimating the dedication and determination of high level players.

They will do anything as long that they can raise the chance to increase their gems by 5% or more. Don't be surprised if you learned that those players just completed grift Lv170 in 10 hours or more.

In fact, wouldn't this will penalized solo player or players that don't have dedicated 4 man team further?
I would love to see the face of a poor guy spending hours to tank through the grift just to fail every attempt at upgrading their legendary gems lol.
I certainly wouldn't take that kind of gamble.

I guess we would also see more passive thorn builds, you just agro mobs and leave to work with a bit of selatape on the left mouse click, you come back and move to the next floor, agro again and go to sleep, rinse and repeat until profit.

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