Why do we still have GR keys?

General Discussion
I think it may be time to make Greater Rifts free as well.
no, we want trials back!
09/11/2017 01:58 AMPosted by IAM
I think it may be time to make Greater Rifts free as well.


To prevent fishing?
09/11/2017 05:13 AMPosted by Kilometer
09/11/2017 01:58 AMPosted by IAM
I think it may be time to make Greater Rifts free as well.


To prevent fishing?


No, to promote fishing. Since it would be free, folks wouldn't worry about "burning" 400 keys for that one map, and more folks would actually push.

This aside, long time ago we proposed 3rd option for Obelisk to have, "Solo Push", that will cost no keys, but it would yield zero xp, zero loot and zero gemups even after completion. It did got a good flow back than on ptr, but it was like a year ago or so.
09/11/2017 05:13 AMPosted by Kilometer
09/11/2017 01:58 AMPosted by IAM
I think it may be time to make Greater Rifts free as well.


To prevent fishing?

It's to prevent players abandoning normal Rifts, which we all now know wouldn't happen. So yes, Blizz should remove them from the game entirely, they serve no purpose at all.
The idea is to discourage premature abandonment of rifts in public games. If you leave early, you lose your key and get no reward (loot, gold, xp).
09/11/2017 12:36 PMPosted by DerfelCadarn
The idea is to discourage premature abandonment of rifts in public games. If you leave early, you lose your key and get no reward (loot, gold, xp).

It is not. The idea behind these keys stems back from when Greater Rifts weren't even a thing and you got Rift Keystone Fragments from doing Bounties in order to play Nephalem Rifts (you needed five of them) and the reason for that was so that players wouldn't abandon playing Bounties thereby rendering half the game redundant due to the fact that Nephalim Rifts were infinitely more rewarding to play. Basically it was a system to protect the ego's of the developers.

Two iterations of this system later it's obvious that the keys have become redundant as normal Rifts are evidently going to survive well enough without an artificial need to force players into playing them.

Edit; this place... http://i.imgur.com/9QfeAIb.gif
09/11/2017 12:43 PMPosted by Vresiberba
09/11/2017 12:36 PMPosted by DerfelCadarn
The idea is to discourage premature abandonment of rifts in public games. If you leave early, you lose your key and get no reward (loot, gold, xp).

It is not. The idea behind these keys stems back from when Greater Rifts weren't even a thing and you got Rift Keystone Fragments from doing Bounties in order to play Nephalem Rifts (you needed five of them) and the reason for that was so that payers wouldn't abandon playing Bounties thereby rendering half the game redundant due to the fact that Nephalim Rifts were infinitely more rewarding to play. Basically it was a system to protect the ego's of the developers.

Two iterations of this system later it's obvious that the keys have become redundant as normal Rifts are evidently going to survive well enough without an artificial need to force players into playing them.


I personally disagree. Without keys regural Rifts will be a ghost town.

Loot is better in GR, reality is that as soon as folks get their 6 pc set, GR's are providing more benefits than regural Rifts

Shards are better in GR's, with current power creep folks can get 1000 shards in less than 12 minutes about 3 days into season

Mats are best from bounties, 3-4 runs yield 1000 of each, while legendary mats combined with stupid amount of souls from GR drop are providing an avenue for targeted grind thru reforge.

Gold is done best in Vaults

Without keys regural Rifts will certainly suffer, because just about anything can be obtained better thru bounties and GR. Death Breaths would be the only incentive to grind regural Rifts, but it would take few weeks and folks would pretty much rely on reforge more instead of rare upgrades, once they would realize that Rifts provide no other benefits, while time in Rifts could be substituted with bounty runs. I think that traffic in Rifts would go down by about 70% if keys were removed, and remaining 30% would be respeced to DB with Sages farming occasionally for an hour or so.

Just my opinion of course, but it comes from my personal experience (I wouldn't touch Rifts if it wasn't for keys alone) and lots of conversations with my friends who ran them for exactly same reason.
09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
09/11/2017 12:43 PMPosted by Vresiberba
...
It is not. The idea behind these keys stems back from when Greater Rifts weren't even a thing and you got Rift Keystone Fragments from doing Bounties in order to play Nephalem Rifts (you needed five of them) and the reason for that was so that payers wouldn't abandon playing Bounties thereby rendering half the game redundant due to the fact that Nephalim Rifts were infinitely more rewarding to play. Basically it was a system to protect the ego's of the developers.

Two iterations of this system later it's obvious that the keys have become redundant as normal Rifts are evidently going to survive well enough without an artificial need to force players into playing them.


I personally disagree. Without keys regural Rifts will be a ghost town.

Loot is better in GR, reality is that as soon as folks get their 6 pc set, GR's are providing more benefits than regural Rifts

Shards are better in GR's, with current power creep folks can get 1000 shards in less than 12 minutes about 3 days into season

Mats are best from bounties, 3-4 runs yield 1000 of each, while legendary mats combined with stupid amount of souls from GR drop are providing an avenue for targeted grind thru reforge.

Gold is done best in Vaults

Without keys regural Rifts will certainly suffer, because just about anything can be obtained better thru bounties and GR. Death Breaths would be the only incentive to grind regural Rifts, but it would take few weeks and folks would pretty much rely on reforge more instead of rare upgrades, once they would realize that Rifts provide no other benefits, while time in Rifts could be substituted with bounty runs. I think that traffic in Rifts would go down by about 70% if keys were removed, and remaining 30% would be respeced to DB with Sages farming occasionally for an hour or so.

Just my opinion of course, but it comes from my personal experience (I wouldn't touch Rifts if it wasn't for keys alone) and lots of conversations with my friends who ran them for exactly same reason.
I don't know about you but the loot gain in normal rifts vs GR's is lots more frequent in normal rifts than GR. I still don't understand why people say GR's are worth more in terms of loot when all you get is maybe 5-6 legendaries vs some normal rifts on TX that gave me 10+ legendaries.

Beside the gem upgrades and XP, GR is NOT better than normal rifts for loot.
09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
I personally disagree. Without keys regural Rifts will be a ghost town.

Nah. Bounties is one thing but regular Rifts is the backbone of this game. There would be plenty of people playing there, evidenced by the numerous discussions about it and that lots of people absolutely detest Greater Rifts. People are literally sitting on thousands of Keys because they don't use them up and don't dare to throw them away.

09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
Loot is better in GR

Just about everything is better in Greater Rifts, but running around collecting purple balls for 15 minutes doesn't appeal to a lot of people, enough in my opinion that without the keys... well, nothing would happen if Blizz just deletes them.
09/11/2017 01:24 PMPosted by Joomzy
09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
...

I personally disagree. Without keys regural Rifts will be a ghost town.

Loot is better in GR, reality is that as soon as folks get their 6 pc set, GR's are providing more benefits than regural Rifts

Shards are better in GR's, with current power creep folks can get 1000 shards in less than 12 minutes about 3 days into season

Mats are best from bounties, 3-4 runs yield 1000 of each, while legendary mats combined with stupid amount of souls from GR drop are providing an avenue for targeted grind thru reforge.

Gold is done best in Vaults

Without keys regural Rifts will certainly suffer, because just about anything can be obtained better thru bounties and GR. Death Breaths would be the only incentive to grind regural Rifts, but it would take few weeks and folks would pretty much rely on reforge more instead of rare upgrades, once they would realize that Rifts provide no other benefits, while time in Rifts could be substituted with bounty runs. I think that traffic in Rifts would go down by about 70% if keys were removed, and remaining 30% would be respeced to DB with Sages farming occasionally for an hour or so.

Just my opinion of course, but it comes from my personal experience (I wouldn't touch Rifts if it wasn't for keys alone) and lots of conversations with my friends who ran them for exactly same reason.
I don't know about you but the loot gain in normal rifts vs GR's is lots more frequent in normal rifts than GR. I still don't understand why people say GR's are worth more in terms of loot when all you get is maybe 5-6 legendaries vs some normal rifts on TX that gave me 10+ legendaries.

Beside the gem upgrades and XP, GR is NOT better than normal rifts for loot.


Thing is that I gauge these things thru pretty methodolical notes I make when I play. You can get 10+ items in a rift, sure. You can also get 2-3 or 4. You will have also 1-2 leg runs, don't tell me you won't. I have them on T13, know everybody have them. You will remember 10+ leg runs, and forget bad runs (subjective memory, our brains tend to remember good things and burry bad ones, scientifically proven, "when you look back is always 20/20" saying have a reason). GR leg drop is consistent, while rift runs are not so consistent as our magic find ramps up and down (this is why Kadala may give you 2 legs or 8 legs from 1000 shards), plus if you combine that with amount of legendaries from shards, GR will win every time. I can run 3 min T13 and 3 minute GR 60. After an hour I will always have more legendaries from running GR 60's. Than, you have an "efficiency" factor to it. Every rift costs you 30 seconds, wether you like it or not (you may choose to ID every 3 or 4 runs with regural Rifts, but you will still lose 30 seconds on each run anyways) while GR have literally no downtime, if you spam them from A1, time loss is minimal (TP to town, "blink" to Orek, 2 steps to blacksmith, salvage yellow/blue/white, 2 steps to obelisk, repeat. Every 3 runs you will ID and shard, losing 20 - 30 seconds, vs losing 90 or more seconds on 3 runs).

I've ran them numbers using optimized setups, with 2000+ paragon on non season or starting from scratch on Season. GR always beat regural Rifts in evarage leg per hour.
09/11/2017 01:28 PMPosted by Vresiberba
09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
I personally disagree. Without keys regural Rifts will be a ghost town.

Nah. Bounties is one thing but regular Rifts is the backbone of this game. There would be plenty of people playing there, evidenced by the numerous discussions about it and that lots of people absolutely detest Greater Rifts. People are literally sitting on thousands of Keys because they don't use them up and don't dare to throw them away.

09/11/2017 01:20 PMPosted by S4v4G3
Loot is better in GR

Just about everything is better in Greater Rifts, but running around collecting purple balls for 15 minutes doesn't appeal to a lot of people, enough in my opinion that without the keys... well, nothing would happen if Blizz just deletes them.


Well, I'm not saying you are wrong, I just know for a fact that really huge amount of folks wouldn't touch Rifts of keys were not there. And now with high keys consumption rat runs or wiz speeds? Man, discrepancies between solo and group would just get bigger for sure :)

It's like with bounties, when we get together with best intentions to grind paragon in season, we avoid bounties as long as we can, because GR's are 90% of our activity, and we would grind keys for 2-3 hours in one session weekly, to stack up for rest of the week.
Every time there's a proposal to remove GR keys, every D3 botter rejoice. At least for now botters still have to set bot to do normal rifts for keys. Without GR keys, they will play 15 or so hours per day and having bots running GRs the rest w/o any negative consequence. 4k+ paragon in a season will be standard if this is the case. If you can't compete with botters now, you sure as hell won't if botters can spam GR all day without having to do normal rifts.

This game is in maintenance mode, we all know that. There are far more important things for this game such as class balancing, sets balancing, prevent bottings, etc. GR key is the least of them.
09/11/2017 04:52 AMPosted by TizmitSack
no, we want trials back!


What kind of monster are you?
I do not see how it would be a good thing to remove keys.

Just doing what you want "because" without earning something to do it removes some of the small amounts of RPG left in this game.

No Thanks.
09/11/2017 04:23 PMPosted by AsagiD304
09/11/2017 04:52 AMPosted by TizmitSack
no, we want trials back!


What kind of monster are you?


He might be a joke monster? As in a sense of humour is required?
Lack of content ? Obviously not. Let's move everything from the game. So we can do only grifts for some time. After that only bots will prevail. If they did not prevailed (already).
Loot in Rift is the same as in Great Rift .. wonder what smarty pants came up with it, that GR has better loot ..

I personally dont like the idea of doing GR10 on season start and climb up by 3 ..
I say leave em in. BUT, no more stash space needed! Like Mats.

I must say though I think GR and Normal Rifts both have their place. I'm not always in the mood for a timed rush to push my GR count Or just doing 80's or whatever to level up gems. So to me NRifts still have their place, just enjoying the scenery slaying some demons, a bit more relaxed. What I would like is if we could scale Rifts like GR's for XP... Hmmm? It gets a bit boring when you've reached a certain power level BUT also after not successfully pushing GR's its nice just to decimate all living Hell...

(edit)
I forgot... make it cost a Rift Key to CLOSE the DAMN RIFT. Normal an GR is fine with me, just let me decide without exiting the game. Make GR cost 5 Rift Keys even!!!
09/11/2017 12:15 PMPosted by Vresiberba
It's to prevent players abandoning normal Rifts, which we all now know wouldn't happen.

Pls tell me you are sarcastic there!

09/12/2017 03:00 AMPosted by sh3riff
Loot in Rift is the same as in Great Rift .. wonder what smarty pants came up with it, that GR has better loot ..

Except that after a grift you have guaranteed green and orange loot. You dont have that in rifts.

09/12/2017 03:15 AMPosted by Necrovex
I forgot... make it cost a Rift Key to CLOSE the DAMN RIFT. Normal an GR is fine with me, just let me decide without exiting the game. Make GR cost 5 Rift Keys even!!!

On t13 you get at least 2 grift keys, sometimes 3. You would force people to run 3 rifts (incase you dont get 3 keys) to run one grift. Screw that!

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