Etched Sigil Proc Mechanics (AS & ICD)

Wizard
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10/06/2017 01:10 PMPosted by TinneOnnMuin
That 0.9 seems to have come from a datamine at some point in the past.

Still not sure where the double procs that Vox and I notice are coming from though.


FPA is a breakpoint term and doesn't make a lot of sense in this contest. You have your APS, but the actual FPA of any given skill/action will depend on the base FPA of the skill/action. 0.9 also seems oddly arbitrary with no usual reasoning behind that value.

-dolynick
10/06/2017 01:10 PMPosted by TinneOnnMuin
Sorry, guess I should stop derailing this thread. Great work on the Etched Sigil mechanics guys :)

No worries, It's good to have info on Zodiac and Stricken as well. Especially the multiple attacks, depending on which attack hits first, incurs different ICD for stricken. I pretty much already expected Zodiac was 1/APS in some manner, but hadn't confirmed it (Being lazy).
So, with a 1.4aps weapon and just 10% AS from paragon should have us at the 1.53 breakpoint right?
10/25/2017 06:33 PMPosted by Gbrav13
So, with a 1.4aps weapon and just 10% AS from paragon should have us at the 1.53 breakpoint right?


Yes. We are fortunate that it works out so nicely for AT/Dis.

-dolynick
10/06/2017 04:46 PMPosted by dolynick
0.9 also seems oddly arbitrary with no usual reasoning behind that value.
The ICD-Scalar on BotS of 0.9 actually makes sense. Consider stacking BotS with ranged attacks at 50 yards versus a Rift Guard. As a ranged class the Rift Guard usually has aggro on your character and is therefore actively moving towards you in a straight line. The flying projectiles will hit the Rift Guard with a higher frequency (less frames between two damage instances) than you shot them with at your casting location (frames between two casts) due to the occuring Doppler Effect. ICD-of-Stricken = FPA-of-Skill would inherently mean that ranged classes would only get a BotS Stack on every second projectile, if the target is running towards them in a straight line. Therefore ICD-of-Stricken = floor(0.9 * FPA-of-Skill) constitutes a failsafe for ranged attacks with an ICD-Scalar. I know this is a bit offtopic by now, but I wanted to weigh in on this one.
This bloody post needs to be stickied. Gotta keep referencing it :)
11/09/2017 04:28 PMPosted by Gbrav13
This bloody post needs to be stickied. Gotta keep referencing it :)


I did build the fSigil stuff right into the Wiz Tools if that helps. Both in the Breakpoints tab with IAS to BP calcs included and in the DPS tab with Speed Coefficient selection.

-dolynick
11/09/2017 10:19 PMPosted by dolynick
11/09/2017 04:28 PMPosted by Gbrav13
This bloody post needs to be stickied. Gotta keep referencing it :)


I did build the fSigil stuff right into the Wiz Tools if that helps. Both in the Breakpoints tab with IAS to BP calcs included and in the DPS tab with Speed Coefficient selection.

-dolynick


Thanks a bunch Dolynick. I thought that post was way out of date (hadnt checked in a while)
11/10/2017 07:07 AMPosted by Gbrav13
Thanks a bunch Dolynick. I thought that post was way out of date (hadnt checked in a while)


It was because I had more or less lost interest during our long period of Archon and nothing else. I updated it for this patch. I did forget to include calculations for Manald Heal though, which I really should add in one of these days. I'm just not sure if there are any odd mechanics there that I'm not aware of in regards to buffs, etc.

-dolynick
Hi everyone
I m not confortable with tick rate...
To summarise, if I m using AT I need 1.54 as, but if I m using RoF I need more to proc meteor every second ?
Damn...

Edit : if i m using BotT and Zodiac ring, with AS should i have ?
With RoF you're better off going for 1.428572429-1.5 APS (20 FPA). Which means you can have at most 7% IAS on gear.
The BP that matter:

Arcane Torrent (except mines) or Disintegrate:
1.538462538 to 1.666666667

Ray of Frost
1.428572429 to 1.5

Arcane Torrent - Arcane Mines only
1.818182818 to 1.904761905 (unless you can somehow get below 1.333 APS)
How long do Deathwish and Etched Sigil buffs last when you stop channeling?

Do they match the sheet damage changes observable with Mantle of Channeling?

Are the durations of buff after channel fixed or dynamic?

Important for skill weaving...
Thx riv and vox
This APS theories look good on paper, but in game you'll always get feared/frozen/knocked back/etc before you can channel for so long... and the higher you go, the more you need to keep moving and dodging. Curiously, enemies also seem to like to use crowd control during CoE cycles.

We didn't need to worry about enemies's crowd control for several seasons because of Archon meta, I even forgot how that was a huge nuissance.
11/13/2017 09:34 AMPosted by Riv
With RoF you're better off going for 1.428572429-1.5 APS (20 FPA). Which means you can have at most 7% IAS on gear.


I run RoF b/c I like the snare (and the look of the skill.)
So this means taking off the 10% off in paragon would net me about ~10% more damage? Sorta gross you have to do that.

Does that change if I have a second spender in the mix (I'd guess no.) I like to include Black Hole and have noticed that ES doesn't cast it very often (I'm guessing it's based on it's cooldown), so I'm content to lose some dps to have the skill on my bar.
11/18/2017 08:28 PMPosted by GunnersDream
So this means taking off the 10% off in paragon would net me about ~10% more damage? Sorta gross you have to do that.


76/60 = 26.67% actually. As for the gross part... That's tick mechanics. They've been that way since vanilla.

The Etched Sigil breakpoints really only apply when you are channelling for periods of more than 1 second at a time. Everytime you break channel in the middle of one of the ES cooldowns you're changing up the timing anyways and tick speed interaction with that can't really be predicted. Basically, the more often you interrupt your channel, the less important your breakpoint can become. If you never channel for a full second at a time, it might become completely irrelevant.

-dolynick
11/18/2017 10:16 PMPosted by dolynick
76/60 = 11.67% actually. As for the gross part... That's tick mechanics. They've been that way since vanilla.

The Etched Sigil breakpoints really only apply when you are channelling for periods of more than 1 second at a time. Everytime you break channel in the middle of one of the ES cooldowns you're changing up the timing anyways and tick speed interaction with that can't really be predicted. Basically, the more often you interrupt your channel, the less important your breakpoint can become. If you never channel for a full second at a time, it might become completely irrelevant.


Thanks, very good info! I definitely channel for more than a second, so it will be useful.

I just don't like having to change my paragon per build since the armory doesn't handle it and I'll invariable forget until I level up.
11/18/2017 10:33 PMPosted by GunnersDream
Thanks, very good info!


The math was way worse than what I originally posted. I updated it. I was lazy and punched it into a calc but must have done something wrong because 11.67% was nowhere near close to how bad it is. At any rate, the point was that the default 1.54 aps breakpoint of DW /w 10% ias is particularly bad for RoF. You're also much better off just dropping a little paragon ias than adding a bunch more to go up to the 15f tick speed.

Also, you don't want to just remove all ias from paragon either. That puts you at 63f for sigil procs which is much better but still not optimal. You need to have at least 2.2 ias assigned to hit the perfect 60f breakpoint (1.42857 - 1.5 aps).

I forgot to answer your cooldown question though. Yes, Etched Sigil uses the skill cooldown and won't cast it faster than that. It actually effectively snapshots your CDR when it procs the skill too, so things like ORotZ won't help. When ES first came out, it really looked like it prioritised cooldown skill casts over non-cooldowns (meaning it would cast them as soon as their snapshooted CD was up) but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. I didn't do any serious testing but having meteor and high CDR EB in play was not casting EB nearly as often as I would have expected (and instead more meteors). As I said though, not saying that for sure. Longer cooldown skills like BH are going to steal fewer procs away from meteors though in a meteor focused build though, so it's not a bad choice. Just remember that stacking CDR is counterproductive to that behaviour too.

-dolynick

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