possible for barb to dps in gr

Barbarian
Asking this question ,it because ww barb can do trash clearing too.Is it possible or we does not have the damage as wd?.
WW does not have the damage of WD in group trash clearing.

WW isn't that good for group dps it seems, pity the proc rate is quite low for Bloodshed. But It can work for non meta groups.

I just hope that WD is just not sooo far ahead in group dps that people won't be feeling like going with the other thrash clearers in a group with 2z and RGK. If it is 2-3 grs only then perhaps a lot more people wont mind especially when WD is not available, but the way it seems now,WD is far ahead.
thanks for your reply,would be possible if rampage does not cap.
09/21/2017 05:02 AMPosted by blueberry
thanks for your reply,would be possible if rampage does not cap.


<3

Ya, that was my hidden intent last ptr when I was asking for it, but only few folks seen it back than:(

On topic:

09/20/2017 11:45 PMPosted by blueberry
Asking this question ,it because ww barb can do trash clearing too.Is it possible or we does not have the damage as wd?.


Hit me up in game, I'll have few things in my head, but need some open minded folks that can multiclass. Don't want to bring too much attention to it before patch goes life.
What would leapquake or frozen fury need to trash clear?

On paper both skills (EQ and SS) seem like they are a few tweaks away.
09/21/2017 05:09 AMPosted by S4v4G3
09/21/2017 05:02 AMPosted by blueberry
thanks for your reply,would be possible if rampage does not cap.


<3

Ya, that was my hidden intent last ptr when I was asking for it, but only few folks seen it back than:(

On topic:

09/20/2017 11:45 PMPosted by blueberry
Asking this question ,it because ww barb can do trash clearing too.Is it possible or we does not have the damage as wd?.


Hit me up in game, I'll have few things in my head, but need some open minded folks that can multiclass. Don't want to bring too much attention to it before patch goes life.
Spill the beans. Stop being selfish
09/21/2017 05:19 AMPosted by Dmoney
09/21/2017 05:09 AMPosted by S4v4G3
...

<3

Ya, that was my hidden intent last ptr when I was asking for it, but only few folks seen it back than:(

On topic:

...

Hit me up in game, I'll have few things in my head, but need some open minded folks that can multiclass. Don't want to bring too much attention to it before patch goes life.
Spill the beans. Stop being selfish


Nah. I've done several things this ptr that could look strange and some were met with misunderstanding, but they end up being good, and what I've learned from past PTR's is, that unfortunately lots of folks don't understand even best intentions without hard explanation. This explanation can end up in class warfare. I'll keep some stuff to myself till next season starts. Nothing game breaking, not an exploit, all good.

Remember, if solo builds can clear high and/or higher than current group DPS can solo, potential is there. It's matter of finding a setup that will enhance it and synergies better with the group than solo spec. You have to think what other classes can bring to the table, and how you can tweak the builds in environment of created density with auxiliary healing and resource.
Firebats is really well itemized with a strong set bonus to boot.

Chiropetra - doubles attack speed, eliminates your need for Mana, and triples your damage

Bakuli Belt - quadruples your damage

Ring of Emptiness - quadrupled your damage

Then it's a channeling spell - so Taeguk, Mantle of Channeling, and I think players use that Bracer for added mitigation and recovery right?

Whirlwind has...Skull Grasp. Dust Devils do provide more AoE though...

But we have a weaker set bonus, and then we have only one 6x multiplier opposed to a 3x & 4x & 4x multipliers, all multiplying off of each other of course.
09/21/2017 06:37 AMPosted by Jako
Firebats is really well itemized with a strong set bonus to boot.

Chiropetra - doubles attack speed, eliminates your need for Mana, and triples your damage

Bakuli Belt - quadruples your damage

Ring of Emptiness - quadrupled your damage

Then it's a channeling spell - so Taeguk, Mantle of Channeling, and I think players use that Bracer for added mitigation and recovery right?

Whirlwind has...Skull Grasp. Dust Devils do provide more AoE though...

But we have a weaker set bonus, and then we have only one 6x multiplier opposed to a 3x & 4x & 4x multipliers, all multiplying off of each other of course.


So it's the items and not the skill itself?
09/21/2017 06:39 AMPosted by Dza76Wutang
09/21/2017 06:37 AMPosted by Jako
Firebats is really well itemized with a strong set bonus to boot.

Chiropetra - doubles attack speed, eliminates your need for Mana, and triples your damage

Bakuli Belt - quadruples your damage

Ring of Emptiness - quadrupled your damage

Then it's a channeling spell - so Taeguk, Mantle of Channeling, and I think players use that Bracer for added mitigation and recovery right?

Whirlwind has...Skull Grasp. Dust Devils do provide more AoE though...

But we have a weaker set bonus, and then we have only one 6x multiplier opposed to a 3x & 4x & 4x multipliers, all multiplying off of each other of course.


So it's the items and not the skill itself?
Basically. But you also need to look at the skill.

Firebats usually costs 125 Mana. It's supposed to be a temporary channeling spell that hits with a punch. Chiropetra let's you spam it.

It does 850% weapon damage once you get it fully channeled or whatever. Mantle of Channeling, the Bracers, and group buffs let you sit there and spam it. And once again, you're not really facing resource problems.

Now you throw in a few really powerful multipliers...

2x attack speed
3x damage
4x damage
4x damage
46x damage

That's basically increasing the damage of spell not originally meant to be spammed by what...4,400x the initial damage?

Then once again, there's group buffs. Pull Barb and Pull Monk group the enemies so you don't have to move and can keep Channeling.

A lot of moving parts. The items definitely play a large part. They completely redesign Firebats tbh.
It's always been itemization, but unfortunately not enough folks get it. Although, keep in mind, that if you have items like GoJ with 800% or BoTFM, or even SG these items are like 2-3 items from other classes combined,
GoJ with x9 is like 1.5x2x3, SG is x2x3, and we do have AD, decent AoE and Bloodshed bomb. Plus, overall we are pretty tanky as well. We don't really need a whole lot to be a decent choice for group DPS.
Ya, new GoJ and new BotFM are definitely 2, sometimes even 3 items, from other classes.

But HOTA doesn't have the same AoE as Firebats, and the Ancients can screw up group play.

And of course, IK is basically 1/3 the damage increase of WD sets.

Lots of moving parts.

But either way, itemization plays a huge part. It's why I'm always harping on about it.
09/21/2017 07:03 AMPosted by Jako
Ya, new GoJ and new BotFM are definitely 2, sometimes even 3 items, from other classes.

But HOTA doesn't have the same AoE as Firebats, and the Ancients can screw up group play.

And of course, IK is basically 1/3 the damage increase of WD sets.

Lots of moving parts.

But either way, itemization plays a huge part. It's why I'm always harping on about it.


As funny as it seems, WW has higher potential than HoTA for push on 4 man, but HoTA is good for some less powerful options. Once we will be live, Im gonna need few barbs to define 4 barbs meta. It will be freaking fun!
I thought the reason WD firebats stomps other trash clearing is due to how channeling scales with attack speed. Since they changed it from increased tickrate to larger hits due to "sheet damage" increase, firebats scales exponentially (most likely not, but at least a power law of some sort) with density.

This has always been the case--i.e., to be a top end dps build you need to exploit some sort of hidden mechanic. Twister wizard did it. SC monk did it. MH Archon wizard did it. Now FB WD is doing it. I was hoping that the change to bloodshed would allow for this, making SS or HOTA barbs an alternative to WD, but then they buffed the F out of FB WD.
09/21/2017 07:03 AMPosted by Jako
But either way, itemization plays a huge part. It's why I'm always harping on about it.


You're not alone.

I still hate the ideology behind the IK set, but it's true: every Barb problem can be solved through supporting legendaries. Rend in Wastes, Slam and AOE, Barb in groups, etc.

Honestly, a beefy Rend item for Whirlwind and a buff to BK could make us viable. If our Rend damage scaled with density and Whirlwind scaled with attack speed, we'd be amazing as trashburners.

09/21/2017 08:59 AMPosted by EigenVector
I was hoping that the change to bloodshed would allow for this, making SS or HOTA barbs an alternative to WD, but then they buffed the F out of FB WD.


That and they "fixed" Bloodshed according to proc rate. If they hadn't done that and buffed Firebats, Whirlwind might have been viable in lower tiers (105).
09/21/2017 05:32 AMPosted by S4v4G3
Remember, if solo builds can clear high and/or higher than current group DPS can solo, potential is there. It's matter of finding a setup that will enhance it and synergies better with the group than solo spec. You have to think what other classes can bring to the table, and how you can tweak the builds in environment of created density with auxiliary healing and resource.


I was thinking ik6/r4 have some potential with trash group dps even tho it cant clear solo higher. With zephyr from zmonk, warcry belt from zbarb and forced marched when he's not pulling,also globes for pounds.

This build have serious toughness issue tho, but perhaps can be solved with APD + charging new pack of mobs when one pack is almost immune( will be jumpy for the zmonk and barb tho, but it can be done)

Altho in that thread also it seems people been saying WD's damage is too much, yup, they do deal a lot of damage with all that multi and that passive as well...
if it possible to buff rend to help in group plays same as ip mob rule too. rune is useless in solo?

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