Great things in the cooker (employee leak)

General Discussion
11/05/2017 06:18 PMPosted by TheTias
Damn...all this storage debate brings back (not so fond) memories of good ol' Sneakernet. :D


So in your experience, is it reasonable to assume the assets of a game are hundreds of times the size of an install?
11/05/2017 06:38 PMPosted by Shurgosa
11/05/2017 06:18 PMPosted by TheTias
Damn...all this storage debate brings back (not so fond) memories of good ol' Sneakernet. :D


So in your experience, is it reasonable to assume the assets of a game are hundreds of times the size of an install?


Yup, it will. Creating a game isn't simple as people think

And old storage have time limit. Even if they found, like old hdd (ide lol) or cd/dvd or whatever, its possible they cant be read or they will just not work at all
11/05/2017 08:02 PMPosted by Monark
Yup, it will. Creating a game isn't simple as people think

And old storage have time limit. Even if they found, like old hdd (ide lol) or cd/dvd or whatever, its possible they cant be read or they will just not work at all


.....I'm pretty sure that Blizzard, regardless of how far you go back to the point when the company was in its infancy.....was and is, smart enough to understand that hard drives and CDs can decay over time....if that's what trips them up that would be pretty comical...
TheTias:
how do you know they are using Subversion (SVN) and not IBM Rational {something} or CVS? I usually just write "code repository like SVN".. ;)
11/05/2017 06:38 PMPosted by Shurgosa
So in your experience, is it reasonable to assume the assets of a game are hundreds of times the size of an install?


Original raw graphics and sound can amount to much more space, yes. Hundreds of times more? Usually not. But not insignificantly more either.

11/05/2017 08:02 PMPosted by Monark
And old storage have time limit. Even if they found, like old hdd (ide lol) or cd/dvd or whatever, its possible they cant be read or they will just not work at all


The typical storage medium of that era were MO (magneto-optical), fixed drive, and DAT tapes. The latter was the least expensive, but most time consuming as it was only accessible in full, not via random access while the former was the most expensive, but had an expected lifespan of at least 10-20 years in a shielded environment. That doesn't mean a company couldn't cheap out. I've seen that plenty of times as has MissCheetah (she mentioned it resulting in the company having to pay to redo from scratch later on in one example). Not having an archived backup is generally considered financial suicide though, so one has to wonder still.

11/06/2017 03:22 AMPosted by DogBone
TheTias:
how do you know they are using Subversion (SVN) and not IBM Rational {something} or CVS? I usually just write "code repository like SVN".. ;)


Proper use of an SVN/CVS means that the same bugs don't keep coming back over and over again as we've seen in Diablo 3. It was the same for D3v as well. The original bugs would resurface over and over again as if the devs were reusing the original source code as the foundation for their newest iterations. An SVN/CVS ensures that the original source is still kept around, but bugfixes and commits are also kept in the updated materials. It's rare to see the same bugs repeatedly over a long period of time in a properly used versioning system.
That doesn't mean a company couldn't cheap out. I've seen that plenty of times as has MissCheetah (she mentioned it resulting in the company having to pay to redo from scratch later on in one example). Not having an archived backup is generally considered financial suicide though, so one has to wonder still.


This might scare you but here goes. I worked for 14 years as a defense contractor at a government worksite (govt was onsite and ran everything). As late as 2007 there was no version management system. There was a spreadsheet the project manager kept to track release numbers and build mgt was in the hands of the people doing the coding. The final release code for the system we supported would get burned onto CD then we would fill out a paper form and walk the CDs down to the Software Library and check them in. None of the source tools or test files/data associated with the software build was officially archived. It was filed away or stashed in a local server directory. If the staff member who knew about those files moved on, that knowledge of how/where to find them is lost.

As late as 2009 when a subcontractor delivered a product to the govt organization they were delivering the source code and graphics assets on an external drive or stack of CDs. The Govt project lead did not check those into the software library. Nope. Desk drawer. She moved on and I am sure nobody would be able to find the files now. Even if someone finds the physical media they would not know what it is or what software tools are needed to work with that source material.

That has changed now and they have a formal configuration management process, audits, version management software, etc. I only share the story to illustrate that software Dev was pretty messy some places.

Now, I think Blizzard was likely a lot more professional than our govt. Still, they were a small company and I am not shocked the Starcraft source graphics were lost over time. Esp with the whole Blizzard North closing thing. Computers removed, internal servers shut down, boxes of media shuffled or lost. It happens.

We know they have the source code for D2/LoD but unless we know if they have those source uncompressed voice files, graphics, and music, we don't know how much work it would be to make a remastered D2.
(I was trying to get you to use the generic term "code repository" instead of the names of specific implementations such as SVN, CVS, MSFS, Git, etc...)

Yes, the reoccurring bugs does make it feel like the D3 team has improperly used a code repository system.
Original raw graphics and sound can amount to much more space, yes. Hundreds of times more? Usually not. But not insignificantly more either.


That is exactly what I was thinking....

Anyways absolutely great thread everyone and great stories all around.....they ring so true, about the defense contractor, and the underlying needs and reasons to people to catalogue this and that......

beautiful.
11/04/2017 07:58 AMPosted by Esm
Probably a Diablo game in the works, but not a game that the diablo fans want. But more along th elines of a Dark Souls type of game set in the Diablo universe, that has multiplayer/mmo features going on.


I would actually really want that.
11/06/2017 05:45 AMPosted by MissCheetah
That doesn't mean a company couldn't cheap out. I've seen that plenty of times as has MissCheetah (she mentioned it resulting in the company having to pay to redo from scratch later on in one example). Not having an archived backup is generally considered financial suicide though, so one has to wonder still.


This might scare you but here goes. I worked for 14 years as a defense contractor at a government worksite (govt was onsite and ran everything). As late as 2007 there was no version management system. There was a spreadsheet the project manager kept to track release numbers and build mgt was in the hands of the people doing the coding. The final release code for the system we supported would get burned onto CD then we would fill out a paper form and walk the CDs down to the Software Library and check them in. None of the source tools or test files/data associated with the software build was officially archived. It was filed away or stashed in a local server directory. If the staff member who knew about those files moved on, that knowledge of how/where to find them is lost.

As late as 2009 when a subcontractor delivered a product to the govt organization they were delivering the source code and graphics assets on an external drive or stack of CDs. The Govt project lead did not check those into the software library. Nope. Desk drawer. She moved on and I am sure nobody would be able to find the files now. Even if someone finds the physical media they would not know what it is or what software tools are needed to work with that source material.

That has changed now and they have a formal configuration management process, audits, version management software, etc. I only share the story to illustrate that software Dev was pretty messy some places.

Now, I think Blizzard was likely a lot more professional than our govt. Still, they were a small company and I am not shocked the Starcraft source graphics were lost over time. Esp with the whole Blizzard North closing thing. Computers removed, internal servers shut down, boxes of media shuffled or lost. It happens.

We know they have the source code for D2/LoD but unless we know if they have those source uncompressed voice files, graphics, and music, we don't know how much work it would be to make a remastered D2.


That sounds almost exactly like how things ran for the project I worked on as a contractor. Of course, we produced media instead of code, but *we* were our own version control system (thankfully, the software I used helped in that area). The AV guy was ALWAYS starved for storage space. I think he would get a new drive once or twice a year just to make room. We produced terabytes of data over the 10 years I worked there. I'd wager most of what was produced is lost on some vaguely labeled CD / DVD or unmarked hard drive. And I can tell you right now, nobody is going to sift through it all in an attempt to find some specific piece.
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