So whats the deal with Juggernaut?

General Discussion
Let me see if I understand:

you guys removed the "extra health" affix because people always skipped the packs with this.And now you basically put skippable packs back AGAIN?

Guys... you're unbelievable.

If you need some tips in game design, send me a PM and I can help you. I'm not a game designer but oh well, I doesn't seem hard looking at diablo 3.
11/18/2017 10:49 AMPosted by Hex
I doesn't seem hard looking at diablo 3.


Just leaving it at that.
I don't even know what the Juggernaut affix does. Some say... that the Bane of the Trapped is affected, or something.

I just play the game.
Juggernaut's cannot be crowd controlled. That's it.

But when you get them with the extra health affix, players would skip them. Hell they would skip them a lot of the time just because they can't be crowd controlled.

No crowd control (no freeze, stun, slow, etc) means no extra damage.

Game on.

Worst examples of a juggernaut pack I have encountered are ones that have Fast, Arcane, and Vortex. Not only are they harder to kill, they are harder to skip. lol
11/18/2017 10:52 AMPosted by Vresiberba
I don't even know what the Juggernaut affix does. Some say... that the Bane of the Trapped is affected, or something.

I just play the game.

Aside from the extra health, it prevents CC from acting on them. this means a lot of effects and damage boosts directly tied to CC don't work on them. This is why they're pretty much an auto-skip at higher levels. The amount of time it takes to bring them down vs the rewards you get from them simply isn't worth the effort.

Essentially, you get a bigger punchbag that's able to negate at least 25% of your damage, if not more. They aren't necessarily more difficult (it depends on the other affixes packed with it, really), but within a time-constrained workframe such as GRs, they're just a waste of time.
11/18/2017 11:14 AMPosted by Blashyrkh
11/18/2017 10:52 AMPosted by Vresiberba
I don't even know what the Juggernaut affix does. Some say... that the Bane of the Trapped is affected, or something.

I just play the game.

Aside from the extra health, it prevents CC from acting on them. this means a lot of effects and damage boosts directly tied to CC don't work on them. This is why they're pretty much an auto-skip at higher levels. The amount of time it takes to bring them down vs the rewards you get from them simply isn't worth the effort.

Essentially, you get a bigger punchbag that's able to negate at least 25% of your damage, if not more. They aren't necessarily more difficult (it depends on the other affixes packed with it, really), but within a time-constrained workframe such as GRs, they're just a waste of time.

Thanks for that, Blas :) I know I deserved a downvote for asking a perfectly reasonable question, and I know one wasn't given by you, but still... I'm now informed. Thanks.
“Extra Health” is now Life Link affix.

Before Life Link meant that all members of the pack had a shared health pool (think of Unity ring). So if you kicked the snot out of all three pack members at once they died quick since they were taking, essentially, three concurrent sources of damage on the same health pool. NOW it means they have a sum total of their collective health EACH. So if, individually, they would normally have 1 billion health they now have 3 billion EACH which is not shared.

i.e. “Extra Health”.

Which is ****ing horse****. **** Juggs and **** Health Link. Complete wastes of time.
Zei's ignores juggernaut.

the stun doesn't do diddly but the extra dmg based on range works just fine, juggernaut doesn't slow me down
11/18/2017 03:14 PMPosted by Arawn
Zei's ignores juggernaut.

the stun doesn't do diddly but the extra dmg based on range works just fine, juggernaut doesn't slow me down

It's a hindrance when your build revolves around CC to boost damage. Builds like Hammerdin crusaders and Shadow DHs rely heavily on this, so they get instantly skipped at high levels. At lower levels, however, you won't even notice a difference, especially given the fact many sets got a substantial boost that's enough to feel completely overkill up to around GR80 in many cases. Once you start nearing the GR100 mark, however, juggernauts become substantially more resilient, which is why most people just skip them.
It's a monkeywrench for the BiS for some builds.
11/18/2017 05:03 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
It's a hindrance when your build revolves around CC to boost damage. Builds like Hammerdin crusaders and Shadow DHs rely heavily on this, so they get instantly skipped at high levels. At lower levels, however, you won't even notice a difference, especially given the fact many sets got a substantial boost that's enough to feel completely overkill up to around GR80 in many cases. Once you start nearing the GR100 mark, however, juggernauts become substantially more resilient, which is why most people just skip them.


I solo'd a GR100 as a DH, Juggernaut didn't slow me down.

Additionally, i'm a lil tired of people casually tossing out "try doing a 100, then you'll see"

I HAVE DONE 100's AND I'M STILL CALLING BS ON YOUR BS

Clear enough for ya?
11/18/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Arawn
11/18/2017 05:03 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
It's a hindrance when your build revolves around CC to boost damage. Builds like Hammerdin crusaders and Shadow DHs rely heavily on this, so they get instantly skipped at high levels. At lower levels, however, you won't even notice a difference, especially given the fact many sets got a substantial boost that's enough to feel completely overkill up to around GR80 in many cases. Once you start nearing the GR100 mark, however, juggernauts become substantially more resilient, which is why most people just skip them.


I solo'd a GR100 as a DH, Juggernaut didn't slow me down.

Additionally, i'm a lil tired of people casually tossing out "try doing a 100, then you'll see"

I HAVE DONE 100's AND I'M STILL CALLING BS ON YOUR BS

Clear enough for ya?

I didn't say it was impossible. I say most people don't bother to kill them because you can easily kill a couple packs in the time it takes to bring a juggernaut down. Learn to read, understand what's being said, and don't get mad because you can't understand what's being said properly. Whether you managed to do it or not doesn't mean they don't negate a large portion of the damage you deal coming from that CC immunity, so your little boasting was pretty much irrelevant to the arguments presented. At best it was a non sequitur. Hope that's not too difficult to understand.

To iterate a bit more on the discussion, Juggernauts move slower, take 30% more damage, and are CC immune. However, consider the following scenario: A DH using a standard shadow build will have at least 20% extra damage coming from strongarm bracers, at least 30% more damage from the bane of the trapped effects, 20% additional damage from cull the weak. that's 70% extra damage coming exclusively from CC related effects. There's a tangible difference between an elite with and without this affix. Sure, they can be killed, but going by my own experience against these, I'm suspecting that 30% extra damage they take isn't high enough to compensate for the massive damage loss a build like this suffers against them. Certainly not enough to support the claim of them "not slowing me down". Whether you decided to persist and killed them is irrelevant at this point. If anyone has the numbers, it would certainly be interesting to know the actual dimension of that loss.
Skip packs or get better at killing juggies. The choice is yours.
11/18/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Arawn


I solo'd a GR100 as a DH, Juggernaut didn't slow me down


I may not have gotten to GR100, but I know for a fact the demon hunter class is a whole different breed. They have more damage reduction and damage avoiding options without hindering damage than the other classes. Other classes have to rely on the cc options tied to skills and items for survivability and damage. A juggernaut logically gets in the way of that. You won’t see a single Necro on the leaderboard without a Krysbin Sentence ring, and they push the highest of any class last I checked.
@Arawn Try soloing a Juggy as a glass cannon Necro at GR90+ without slow/CC. Definitely doable, but a waste of time. I lose like +400% damage without my Frozen Lands able to CC.

The problem is both the way the affix works, and how it hurts certain classes with very poor mobility in GR push build.

So obviously a Demon Hunter will have very little issue with their mobility against Juggys compared to a Necro, whose only way to kite, is to mouse click to move away slowly.

Add in waller, frozen, vortex, fast, thunderstorm, fire aura, jailer, and you're in for a world of hurt. With no way to stop incoming damage but to run like hell, and pray you don't die too many times for the timer.
As a Necro i can kill rift guardian quicker then I can kill juggernaut, why bother ?

Funny thing about them is that they usually tend to follow you.
Get a ghost juggernaut in bastions keep dungeon like maps and he will be on your tail untill you get to the other end unless you spend precious time to bring it down.
Just rekt Juggernaut from affixes-table. I also hate this affix since it was launched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEYViV8p-Ow
11/19/2017 03:59 AMPosted by Grumpy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEYViV8p-Ow

LOL even xmen skip juggernauts
11/18/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Arawn
11/18/2017 05:03 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
It's a hindrance when your build revolves around CC to boost damage. Builds like Hammerdin crusaders and Shadow DHs rely heavily on this, so they get instantly skipped at high levels. At lower levels, however, you won't even notice a difference, especially given the fact many sets got a substantial boost that's enough to feel completely overkill up to around GR80 in many cases. Once you start nearing the GR100 mark, however, juggernauts become substantially more resilient, which is why most people just skip them.


I solo'd a GR100 as a DH, Juggernaut didn't slow me down.

Additionally, i'm a lil tired of people casually tossing out "try doing a 100, then you'll see"

I HAVE DONE 100's AND I'M STILL CALLING BS ON YOUR BS

Clear enough for ya?


Your DH assertions do not apply to non-DH’s. Mechanics which limit other classes do not limit DH’s and vice versa. That’s why they are DIFFERENT CLASSES.

Clear enough for ya?

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