4m GR126 down Star Pact trash clear wiz

Wizard
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12/14/2017 01:25 AMPosted by StoleOwnCar
Probably not viable but I would be curious about a zodiac version where you use the molten impact rune (ditching the illusory boots and cubing zodiac instead of rorg). Has anyone tried it? I don't really have gear of friends left to play with in this anymore, so I can't try it. mcdundee, if you could just give it a shot or two when you usually run, it'd be cool. It might need actual CDR rolls to work though. I can zbarb if needed.


Early on after 2.6.1 I tried a Molten Impact/Zodiac variation of the current FB Meteor Shower build. It was actually not bad and could still probably work quite well for solo or 2m. I did have a few CDR rolls just to get more molten impacts out. They do hit hard and have a nice AoE.

Unfortunately, for group play pushes it loses the massive WoF Arcane attunement multiplier. Also Zodiac relies on a spender to reset cooldown, so it synergies well with a pure channeling build. This Star Pact build is barely a channeling build, in the sense that you really only channel for about 0.5s just before meteor impact. The rest of the time you’re using a generator skill to regen AP and build Dynamo stacks. So I’m not sure Zodiac synergizes well with the generator/Dynamo mechanics.

Would be happy to test some things out with you in-game.
Molten does have one thing going for it: It's fire element, so you get another active skill, and flame blades can be put to work.

The problem is you can't use WOF:AA (arcane) or BH:SS (long-ish cooldown competes with zodiac). So you are down like 400-800% dmg out the door compared to arcane meteor variants. Plus Zodiac replaces Mantle of Channeling/Rorg, SOJ, or something else valuable. Plus stacking CDR always comes at a cost. Plus stacking Arcane Dynamo comes at cost of Zodiac Procs.

I don't predict grand things for Molten Impact + Zodiac.
The base damage difference is huge as well

Molten does 1648% + 625% dot

Star pact, has a base damage of 740% + 20%/extra ap

with ideal gear has 145 max ap. With meteor costing 18 ap (grand vizier + paragon), the additional dmg is 20% * (145 - 18) = 2540%

Total dmg for star pact is 740% + 2540% = 3280% wd

And for reasons specified by mcdundee and vox, biggest one is losing arcane attunement stack (4% per enemy) and trading stats for cdr.

Makes me wonder if we cant play a regular meteor shower using flame blades and manual casting + deathwish though, I wonder if it could top the solo version of just channeling.
12/14/2017 11:22 AMPosted by dejuvenate
with ideal gear has 145 max ap


Slotting Energy Armor Energy Tap can increase max AP by another 20 as well.

As far as I know the only gear slots that can roll +max AP are offhand and wizard hat. I’ve even considered dropping Illusory Boots for a wizard hat for the sole purpose of increasing max AP. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of wizard hat options that synergize well with the current skill set.

Velvet Cameral could synergize with forked lightning and allow you to regen AP slightly faster due to the doubling effect.

Crown of the Primus could be neat if you could afford to slot slow time instead of an armor spell (but you lose the extra AP from Energy Tap so no real net gain in AP).

Plus Illusory Boots are really hard to give up. The trade offs probably aren’t worth it, but I’m loving all the theory crafting ideas.
For speed run, one max out the first arcane COE, in other word, the dmg of single star pact. HOWEVER, in high GR, the total output overtime is more important.

W/ conflagration and full CHC, one can recover ~145 AP with 6 electrocute, which is the shortest rotation one can reach. If one shoots for higher AP, then one needs longer rotation. I'm not seeing a big enough benefit to use Energy Tap and/or a wizard hat. For higher raw dmg, mantle of channelling is a fair choice.
12/14/2017 01:02 PMPosted by WorkWorkWork
For speed run, one max out the first arcane COE, in other word, the dmg of single star pact. HOWEVER, in high GR, the total output overtime is more important.

W/ conflagration and full CHC, one can recover ~145 AP with 6 electrocute, which is the shortest rotation one can reach. If one shoots for higher AP, then one needs longer rotation. I'm not seeing a big enough benefit to use Energy Tap and/or a wizard hat. For higher raw dmg, mantle of channelling is a fair choice.


These are good points and you are probably right that max dmg over time is likely achieved through more frequent but slightly less powerful Star Pacts.

Additionally, there will be a GR ceiling where Energy Armor no longer suffices and you just need SA/Karini to survive. EA was a fun tweak but I will probably be switching back to SA/Karini for any higher pushing.
Since you wont need etched sigil anyway, what if you wear OoID and slot explosive blast in place of magic weapon ignite? That should boost your toughness so much.

It will screw up arcane dynamo... So one thing to keep in mind. This build wrecks your fingers already as it is, any additional complicity.
12/14/2017 03:43 PMPosted by dejuvenate
Since you wont need etched sigil anyway, what if you wear OoID and slot explosive blast in place of magic weapon ignite? That should boost your toughness so much.

It will screw up arcane dynamo... So one thing to keep in mind. This build wrecks your fingers already as it is, any additional complicity.


Etched Sigil is the must because 150% damage which is higher than that from OoID.
12/14/2017 10:49 AMPosted by Vox
Molten does have one thing going for it: It's fire element, so you get another active skill, and flame blades can be put to work.

The problem is you can't use WOF:AA (arcane) or BH:SS (long-ish cooldown competes with zodiac). So you are down like 400-800% dmg out the door compared to arcane meteor variants. Plus Zodiac replaces Mantle of Channeling/Rorg, SOJ, or something else valuable. Plus stacking CDR always comes at a cost. Plus stacking Arcane Dynamo comes at cost of Zodiac Procs.

I don't predict grand things for Molten Impact + Zodiac.


Well, my idea was maybe that the DoT zone could stack up. As far as rotation you just stack 1 black hole:SSS (nice thing about this is that it increases durability as well), 5x flame blade strikes (should go very quickly with PE stacks), and then cast+channel meteor (channel till both meteor and black hole reset), repeat. Black hole and meteor would share cooldown, but if you stacked a bit of CDR I believe this could be quite minimal to get both of them back up. Alternatively maybe zodiac replace PE, but probably not optimal.

The thing is, watching that Chinese video of that individual playing, I noticed that I think he rarely ever got off that many meteors on his arcane cycle in the first place. That, and he didn't seem to hit many of them at max AP anyway. He seemed to be struggling to keep AP up. Build seemed like a big PITA to play...

Anyway, actually though one of the bigger reasons I thought about Molten Impact was the large increase to its radius, though. An increase of radius to 20 from 12 is a huge increase in the area of a circle. With heavy AD stacking, I think Molten might make better use of it in large mob sizes. That's about it.

12/14/2017 04:56 PMPosted by SIAMTHAID3
12/14/2017 03:43 PMPosted by dejuvenate
Since you wont need etched sigil anyway, what if you wear OoID and slot explosive blast in place of magic weapon ignite? That should boost your toughness so much.

It will screw up arcane dynamo... So one thing to keep in mind. This build wrecks your fingers already as it is, any additional complicity.


Etched Sigil is the must because 150% damage which is higher than that from OoID.


Well, I've been out of the loop for a while, but has it been confirmed that Etched is a separate multiplier from Deathwish specifically? Just genuinely curious.
Etched Sigil and Deathwish are both multiplier on their own.

There is a variant use OoID, illusionary boot and RoRG, replacing Magic Weapon and Storm Armor by Explosive blast and black hole. ~25% less dmg, a bit complicated gameplay, but you can move around.
You guys saved your 8/4/10/6 Stormcrows, right?

Right?
12/14/2017 04:56 PMPosted by SIAMTHAID3


Etched Sigil is the must because 150% damage which is higher than that from OoID.


You cast meteor manually so it procs AD and consumes additional AP, as well as takes advantage of dynamo. So etched sigil is not used at all except for proccing very weak, non-AD star pact.
12/14/2017 05:45 PMPosted by WorkWorkWork
Etched Sigil and Deathwish are both multiplier on their own.


Like, can you just link me to the post where Cratic no doubt tested this? It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just always skeptical unless someone has run some hard testing on things.

12/14/2017 10:05 AMPosted by mcdundee
Would be happy to test some things out with you in-game.


What times are you usually on? I've been having a messed up sleep schedule, so I wanted to kind of defer on that till I was sure I could be on when you were.
12/14/2017 08:35 PMPosted by dejuvenate
12/14/2017 04:56 PMPosted by SIAMTHAID3


Etched Sigil is the must because 150% damage which is higher than that from OoID.


You cast meteor manually so it procs AD and consumes additional AP, as well as takes advantage of dynamo. So etched sigil is not used at all except for proccing very weak, non-AD star pact.


Manual casted meteor get boosted from Sigil if you channeling while meteor impact. You could set simple test and see by yourself.
12/15/2017 12:44 AMPosted by SIAMTHAID3
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You cast meteor manually so it procs AD and consumes additional AP, as well as takes advantage of dynamo. So etched sigil is not used at all except for proccing very weak, non-AD star pact.


Manual casted meteor get boosted from Sigil if you channeling while meteor impact. You could set simple test and see by yourself.


My question was not whether Sigil boosts damage in general while channeling. My question was whether Sigil is truly a separate multiplier from Deathwish, or whether they go into the same bin. Yes, I could test it myself, but since you folks were saying it was a separate multiplier in such an authoritative manner... I had the assumption that it was actually empirically tested at some point. Well, I'm sure someone has tested it, otherwise more people would be running OoID in solos.
12/15/2017 12:44 AMPosted by SIAMTHAID3

Manual casted meteor get boosted from Sigil if you channeling while meteor impact. You could set simple test and see by yourself.


Have you tried this? There are no mention of it anywhere in cratic's thread. Pretty sure something this significant will be mentioned.

Cba to test atm
Tested it myself. First manually casted meteor without channeling. Then manually casted meteor with channeling somewhere else, damage is 2.5 times of that without channeling.
I noticed this build is now on the NA season 12 4m leaderboard.

GR 131 in 11:22 at 2800 paragon.
Trying to understand this...while chanelling i lose dynamo stacks but i gain sigil buff..how can i cast star pact manually while chanelling if i am to lose dynamo stacks?
Confused..
12/18/2017 01:55 AMPosted by Leontokardos
Trying to understand this...while chanelling i lose dynamo stacks but i gain sigil buff..how can i cast star pact manually while chanelling if i am to lose dynamo stacks?
Confused..


Try not to think about this as a channeling build. You only channel Flame Ward for about 0.5seconds just before and at the moment of meteor impact to gain the buffs from deathwish and sigil. You only use sigil for the dmg buff, not for the autocasted spells.

Remember there is 1.5 seconds between meteor cast and impact. The trick is to manually cast Star Pact to consume Dynamo and then start channeling just before impact. Once your meteor has landed you can stop channeling and focus on forked lightning to regenerate AP.

Here is the process for 1 full rotation:
1. Cast WoF in density to gain Arcane Attunement stacks.
2. Cast forked lightning to regen AP and build Dynamo stacks to 5.
3. Manually cast Star Pact to consume Dynamo (your AP will now be empty).
4. While the Star Pact is in the air falling, immediately cast forked lightning quickly to regen some AP.
5. Start channeling just before the meteor lands. You want to time it so your Star Pact impacts during Arcane phase of CoE.

If you have done everything right your manually casted Star Pact will have massive impact multipliers from WoF, Dynamo, Deathwish, Sigil, and CoE (also oculus if you’re lucky). It will also trigger lots of area dmg.

Hope that helps.

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