Diablo Future (Trading, skills, pvp)

General Discussion
It's quite sad coming in the forums and seeing how dead the chat is compared to a few years ago. Then again, it's been awhile since I've hopped into an actual Diablo 3 grind. I played casually when the necromancer came out and religiously before that for a few years.

The Diablo train faded quickly for me even though I tried hanging on as tightly as possible. From the auction house, to lack of pvp entirely, no trading implementation, it's been a rough ride to say the least. But there were also many cool changes that were made such as smart loot, adventure mode, grifts, augments, etc...but in the end, even those seem to be narrow and way too time-consuming with little reward.

Truthfully, I've always loved the Diablo series and still have so much hope for its future. Sure, you can jump right into Diablo 3 and rank up rather quickly with the new loot system but after becoming level 70, ripping away at paragons, you essentially meet the same end as every other chart. Finding ancient gear, leveling augments, rinse and repeat. There truly is no sense of self. The skills are the same. The gear cannot be traded. There is no real or enjoyable pvp... Diablo doesn't have to be the same formula as previous installments but people should always look to what made the game so enjoyable in the first place.

Without the core feature of trading and not being able to customize skill points, characters seem to be carbon copies of other players and one that takes way too much time to invest in and actually feel like you've accomplished a unique and personal chart. I know blizz has tried adding in pets and such for variety, but without a trading system, skill allocation, and even pvp at the least, I don't think this satisfaction this will ever come to pass.

My hope for future installments of Diablo, is that devs can come to understand these elements truly made this game an RPG and one that continuously brought fans back years and years later. Go back to the gritty, dark realism of Diablo and the core mechanics that made the game still viable to this day. If you enjoy Diablo 3, the more to you but I think for years now the fan base has spoken about what truly is missing and it looks like it's showing.
The carbon copy statement you made is how Blizzard does things now. Take WOW for instance, every character essentially has the exact same skills, just different names. Unfortunately innovation, uniqueness, attention to detail is gone.
01/10/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Matheyus
to lack of pvp entirely

Thanks God
No need for pvp in Diablo games.
:-)
Yea PvP just adds loads of balance issues that can never be fixed and it just screws up pve.
Title Change:
Diablo Past (Trading, skills, pvp)

Fixed.

Well, except for the skills part. Every class still has as many active and passive skill availability. Every class can benefit from the RRoG, introduced well after the release of Vanilla Diablo 3.

There's lots of room for improvement within Diablo 3, but not in Trading or PvP.
01/10/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Matheyus
Without the core feature of trading and not being able to customize skill points, characters seem to be carbon copies of other players and one that takes way too much time to invest in and actually feel like you've accomplished a unique and personal chart. I know blizz has tried adding in pets and such for variety, but without a trading system, skill allocation, and even pvp at the least, I don't think this satisfaction this will ever come to pass.

I agree that PvP and trading should make a return in D4, but I disagree on skill points for active skills.

D3's rune system for active skills is better than D2's point based skill tree in my opinion, because it allows for much more and better customization. Putting more points in active skills in D2 only changes numbers, while the rune system allows the skills to do something completely different.

I know the rune system and a point based system are not mutually exclusive, but you wanna have your main skills maxed out anyway and a point based system would only lead to players maxing one or two skills while ignoring most other skills and using one point wonders.

However, I would love to see point based systems for passive skills and an attribute system, because passive skills and attributes are all about numbers, so I think point based system fit there much better than on active skills.
Trading is not something that is really important to me in a game. I like to play solo mostly so I like a good single player game - meaning I do not want to play a game balanced around trading.

PvP is something nice to change up the pacing with. Not the hostile feature of D2, something like CTF or king of the hill or team death match.

I do believe skill points are the way to go. In combination with a D3 style rune system like here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20760718663#post-1
I Would like to see trading put back in the game, there is nothing that ticks me off more then rolling with some friends and they get an Item I need and have been farming for hours from Kadala and I get one for them and we cant trade, this should not be an issue especially with the implementation of Primal Ancient Items.
01/10/2018 05:04 PMPosted by ProtossLord
I Would like to see trading put back in the game, there is nothing that ticks me off more then rolling with some friends and they get an Item I need and have been farming for hours from Kadala and I get one for them and we cant trade, this should not be an issue especially with the implementation of Primal Ancient Items.


Honestly never understood why you can't trade any item gained in a group. Really, what's the difference between killing for an item or trading an item that you gained with the shards earned from the kills.

Other thing that always ticks me off is the crafting aspect. We have three types of followers that use Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence. Why, as a Intelligence based character, do I have to create a Dexterity based character to create gear for the Scoundrel?

Same goes with the Mystic. I should be able to turn that Intelligence based item into Dexterity without loading a Dexterity based character.

It's not like it's a big deal, just a pain in the butt to have to go through hoops for something so simple.
01/10/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Griff
01/10/2018 05:04 PMPosted by ProtossLord
I Would like to see trading put back in the game, there is nothing that ticks me off more then rolling with some friends and they get an Item I need and have been farming for hours from Kadala and I get one for them and we cant trade, this should not be an issue especially with the implementation of Primal Ancient Items.


Other thing that always ticks me off is the crafting aspect. We have three types of followers that use Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence. Why, as a Intelligence based character, do I have to create a Dexterity based character to create gear for the Scoundrel?

Same goes with the Mystic. I should be able to turn that Intelligence based item into Dexterity without loading a Dexterity based character.

It's not like it's a big deal, just a pain in the butt to have to go through hoops for something so simple.
I guess their smart loot system can't differentiate. I never liked the idea of smart loot. Didn't like the primary stat system either. Would be better if damage was not tied to a particular primary stat then no need for smart loot and then no problem with mystic.
01/10/2018 03:25 AMPosted by clueso

However, I would love to see point based systems for passive skills and an attribute system, because passive skills and attributes are all about numbers, so I think point based system fit there much better than on active skills.


D3 already has a point based system for passive skills in the form of Legendary gems. Players chooses three gems with different powers and then earn ranks, aka skill points, by completing GRs of ever increasing difficulty. This is probably one of the best system additions to D3.

Putting 20 skill points into a D2 skill wasn't anything to get excited about, but getting my Zei's to rank 116 was pretty satisfying. In addition to that, getting my Gogok ranked high enough to grant me >20% dodge chance at max stacks felt really good.

In short, I completely agree with you on this point. Skill points for active skills aren't very exciting, but supplemental point based systems for passive type skills can really add some nice flavor to an ARPG.

P.S. In D2, characters eventually stopped earning skill points altogether. In D3, a hero can always earn up to 5 skill points by completing a Greater Rift. How potent those points are depends on how powerfull and/or skilled the player is.
01/10/2018 03:25 AMPosted by clueso
Putting more points in active skills in D2 only changes numbers, while the rune system allows the skills to do something completely different.


Unfortunately only one is ever useful, so out of all the runes you end up having to use one becuase set powers that one up.

Take US monk (cold EP only) for example. SSS = only sustained attack rune, etc... I liked runes, but blizzard fails to make them all relevant, so instead of choice. We just have 1 useful, and space fillers.

I don't think it's the issue with rune system. I think it's everything became stupidly broken once blizzard started inflating numbers.

I don't remember last time I made anything with blacksmith even anymore. It's all worthless today.
@Midnight

Well, everybody thought MS - Arsenal was the only option for high GR until wudijo cleared 109 with Full Broadside.
01/10/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Midnight
01/10/2018 03:25 AMPosted by clueso
Putting more points in active skills in D2 only changes numbers, while the rune system allows the skills to do something completely different.


Unfortunately only one is ever useful, so out of all the runes you end up having to use one becuase set powers that one up.

Take US monk (cold EP only) for example. SSS = only sustained attack rune, etc... I liked runes, but blizzard fails to make them all relevant, so instead of choice. We just have 1 useful, and space fillers.

I don't think it's the issue with rune system. I think it's everything became stupidly broken once blizzard started inflating numbers.

Yeah, that is right, it primarily is not the fault of the rune system itself that just a few runes are viable, but it is the fault of these massively inflated numbers on sets and legendaries that only buff one skill or a set of skills, which funnels everyone into the same predetermined builds.

I think these massive multipliers are D3's biggest design flaw, because they drastically reduce (endgame) build diversity.
01/10/2018 09:01 PMPosted by RedCell
01/10/2018 03:25 AMPosted by clueso

However, I would love to see point based systems for passive skills and an attribute system, because passive skills and attributes are all about numbers, so I think point based system fit there much better than on active skills.


D3 already has a point based system for passive skills in the form of Legendary gems. Players chooses three gems with different powers and then earn ranks, aka skill points, by completing GRs of ever increasing difficulty. This is probably one of the best system additions to D3.

Putting 20 skill points into a D2 skill wasn't anything to get excited about, but getting my Zei's to rank 116 was pretty satisfying. In addition to that, getting my Gogok ranked high enough to grant me >20% dodge chance at max stacks felt really good.

In short, I completely agree with you on this point. Skill points for active skills aren't very exciting, but supplemental point based systems for passive type skills can really add some nice flavor to an ARPG.

P.S. In D2, characters eventually stopped earning skill points altogether. In D3, a hero can always earn up to 5 skill points by completing a Greater Rift. How potent those points are depends on how powerfull and/or skilled the player is.


Exactly! I'm even ok with that implementation. Like I said smart loot and even the loot based gear is somewhat cool because it adds to skills/ makes more character depth and variety. However, they shoot themselves in the foot in that same regard because you CAN'T trade. What is the point of grinding with one another, team matches, adventure mode, accumulating all of that awesome gear...if you can't and I mean can't do anything with it at all.

That just isn't much fun to me and doesn't give the player the freedom nor pleasure to want to grind and find the items outside maxing your chart out. Which as I stated before become fairly stale early on.
If anything there are a lot of great responses in this. I like hearing different ideas and opinions even if they differ from mine. The bottom line to me is most players (not streamers, advanced) go for mainstream builds even with all the gear variety and gems. I can't get past the idea of not trading. It just ruins the freedom of play for me.

Pvp I can see where it causes balance issues, etc. But still working towards something would be cool in my eyes. Diablo 2 or Diablo 1 even you can duel and then carry on with gameplay and team coop. However, within D3 no matter what cool gear I get, or how much I max out a character, I still feel like I have to spend entirely too much time on doing just that. Which even that, would be ok considering you don't want someone to be godly within a day of playing.

However, if you can't do anything with that loot...can't trade...negotiate... It just seems to be repetitive and gets rather boring quickly. Cool ideas though besides that everyone. Thanks for your feedback.

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