A few insights on state of PVP (2.6.1)

Hello everyone, as some might remember I was a PVP DH back in the pre-RoS days but I consistently lurk these forums and comment on PVP ideas (mostly with valid but negative remarks on how X won't solve a problem).

As many of you are well aware, PVP nowadays (patch 2.6.1) is VERY VERY different than in the glory days of 1.0.7 and 1.0.8 (Jan 2013 - March 2014). In those glory days, PVP was indeed fun to play and the gameplay wasn't as stale as it is today (and only a couple class restrictions were needed for balance).

The release of Reaper of Souls and subsequent power-creep patches have nudged the PVP aspect of D3 more and more towards rocket-tag (everyone 1-shots with anything). But, in the old days pre-RoS days, 1-shots still existed! For example, Monks with Wave of Light - Exploding Light would generally always 1-shot a DH (sometimes even without a critical hit); what made it difficult for the Monk was hitting the DH in the first place! An evasive playstyle and effective use of cover was what the DH needed to win that encounter. The moral of that story: not all 1-shot attacks were unbalanced.

The case of 1-shots in the current state of the game (2.6.1), is quite different. Instead of relatively slow and direct or short-ranged attacks being capable of the 1-shot-kill, basically EVERYTHING now can 1-shot-kill. With a UE DH using Vengeance and unleashing 3 multishots and 15 rockets per second (which lock-onto targets and will track regardless of distance), this becomes an impossible to avoid missile volley of death!

So now I have some good news and bad news:

Bad news: the D3 PVP scene is dead and will likely never be revived. With D3's aging life-cycle, it seems increasingly unlikely that the developers will ever "address the white elephant in the room" (as they did once during a D3 panel and called it exactly that). Because of this, regardless of any new patches or player-motivated stuff that is done, the brawling aspect of D3 will remain unfinished. By unfinished I mean: there is no scoring mode, no spectator mode, no setting of custom rules, no rewards, etc.

Good news: There is still hope for unrestricted PVP! By unrestricted I mean, full legendaries, sets, gems, and the like, but it requires some extreme planning. Of course there have been players who suggested "blue gear only" or "yellow gear only" brawling (with disabling of things like Kanai's cube or paragon) but these seem like a turn-off for a lot of players who are used to the synergies of their sets and playing with their hard-earned legendary equipment.

So you may ask, how does one survive with the absurd damage players do nowadays!? The answer lies in building characters with more toughness, and no, I don't mean like XxTaZzLoCCxX#1989 super tank DH (which had 160M profile toughness and about 6B buffed toughness according to d3planner), and no I don't mean his idea of his "optimized" PVP build tanker (~40B toughness according to D3planner) with essentially no DPS (500k damage per hit): https://www.d3planner.com/805693909 but instead I mean a FULL-set PVP character with 100B+ toughness, yes that's 100,000,000,000+ toughness AND reasonable (~25% PVE) damage!

I have done some testing and it appears that most PVE-oriented player damage can be tanked when you have at least 100,000,000,000 toughness. The questions are now: how can you reach that absurd amount of toughness!? And how can you reach that absurd amount of toughness WHILE maintaining a full 6-piece set with some DPS stats too!? The answer is in very careful planning! I have created a prototype of my ideal PVP DH in d3planner using the full N6/M4 build on a paragon 2000 character with level 100 gem augments: https://www.d3planner.com/348460940

This PVP DH build has ~110B toughness and ~1.7M sheet DPS (with the 4x cluster arrow damage from Manitcore in cube, 36x damage from N6, and the 5x damage to sentries from M4). This build actually has maybe 25% of an actual PVE-oriented N6/M4 build but some 100x the toughness! It could be balanced to more damage but slightly less toughness by using a Bombardier's Rucksack.

I am in the process of grinding gear towards that goal but I still have a lot to find. I'm not 100% sure, but I think if many other players adopt the goal of reducing PVE damage by 75% while increasing toughness by 10,000%, PVP will be once again a non-1-shot-kill fest but rather a more enjoyable but chaotic battle (with rockets and things flying everywhere).

Once I get closer to my ideal PVP DH goal, I will accept challenges from anyone to observe the outcome of my theory-crafting.

Thank you for reading,

Update: upon chatting with long-time PVP friends, I noted that there are some items that will need to be banned in the unrestricted PVP format because they cause glitches and otherwise hamper the metagame. For example, the bleed-type gems (Toxin and Pain) cause issues where players cannot revive and the immunity amulets would of course ruin the battle against players using the opposing element.

But other restrictions might need to be considered too depending on the strength of the attack (e.g. Lord Greenstone's Fan might be an issue).

I did not test every single thing there is to test with all skills and classes but rather just tested damage from a few different DH builds against a tank DH. I did conclude that 25B toughness versions of the N6/M4 PVP DH I proposed is not tanky enough! I did test with a higher-toughness version (~120B) but no 6-piece set (hence no DPS) against a higher DPS version of my ideal N6/M4 PVP DH (maybe 1/4th the toughness but 2-3x the damage) and it was not tanky enough.

However, as I do not have (and nor does anyone have) a full build like the one planned on d3planner, I cannot verify how that build would fare against itself.

Lastly, we also tested the no set-items rule and we quickly concluded that it always ends in a stalemate when both players go tanky enough (we did not test with Lord Greenstone's Fan but rather Karlei's + Impale).
Very nice. But don't you think you need more +damage to elites other players are treated as elites?
01/16/2018 06:34 PMPosted by SevenShadow
Very nice. But don't you think you need more +damage to elites other players are treated as elites?

Yeah I did consider that but the issue is that elite damage bonus and reduction from things like Blackthorne's set are relatively minor compared to the larger damage and toughness multipliers. Even if DH could use the Furnace, Manticore (with it's 4x multiplier and 50% cost reduction) would beat it by far.
I finished theory-crafting a PVP Barb with 2 variants: LoN and IK6. I think the IK6 variant is stronger but it depends on how easily killable the pets are (like with N6/M4, this is the reason for the Enforcer gem).

The PvP dont exist in D3 and the game die because has no end game.Kiling monsters (fighting with the artificial inteligence) cant be a chalange also the fact that we can get only paragon points but nothing else can stack for future to make use of that time spent in game is not Ok
Ah was a feature that make players happy a reason to grind gear and aell on AH.They should only limit the number of transaction per day at one or 3 was enough.
Game is ded and with no pvp plans or Ah plans for future i think we can find better games like poe or loa or wolcen and so on.
Rip D3.

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