Cratic, RE: DMO EB.

Wizard
Long time, no see... err, talk. :) Hope all is well.

So I'm subscribed to your YouTube channel and noticed that you just recently made a new video about a DMO EB build. This is also a build that I've been using for quite some time, as it's been my main source of D3 Wizard entertainment since it's something that most people have overlooked and that I think has good potential (not chart topping by any means, but should still be able to get up to 110 or so maybe).

This is my character:

https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/Malakai-1265/hero/48713352

I also spent all weekend gathering footage for a video to show the build in higher GRs which I should be able to have done in the coming days if I still decide to post it. I have one put together already of a GR100 clear in under 10 minutes that I just need to upload, but I really want a good one of a GR105 clear to upload instead. I'm really picky about the footage I get because I tend to choose the music I want to use first, and then try to get footage that goes along well with it, and that's proving to be difficult right now. heh.

Anyhow, I know that your video mainly talked about speed farming with it in the mid 80's to mid 90's (which you did a great job demonstrating), but I wanted to discuss higher GR solo clears regarding the build. There are a few things I disagree with in your video, but most of it I agree it.

1)- Event Horizon. It's definitely one of the better runes for higher GRs, especially since survivability becomes the biggest factor once you get into the GR100 range. Being able to eat up all the nasty affixes around you helps tremendously, and especially against certain RGs. EH is what I use to clear GR100-105 with and it's a godsend.

2)- Unity. You really don't need it at the GR85-95 range at all. I've cleared up to GR105 without it, instead opting for ORotZ (and sometimes CoE) for the higher damage output. I do want to experiment more with Spellsteal + Unity for higher GRs, though, as it's not a combo that I have tested out a whole helluvalot. I did use Spellsteal + CoE or ORotZ a lot in the past, however, but mainly on 90-95 stuff, which the combo is great for.

3)- APoC. Not needed either surprisingly. With 10 RCR from Paragon, one other RCR roll on gear, Power of the Storm, and a good channeling belt (mine has 63%) I'm able to dps for very, very long periods of time without running dry, even when using ORotZ. This allows for shoulders with INT, RCR, +EB, and CDR, and then a source with INT, CC, +EB, and CDR. If you find yourself manually casting a lot of BHs, though, you'll definitely need APoC, but I don't ever find myself doing that often at all. You'll also need APoC if you use the Flash rune for obvious reasons.

4)- LoH. You'll definitely need to roll it on an Ancient weapon if you're going for higher GRs since the bracer roll is much lower and there's no room for shielding in the build. Otherwise you get wrecked, or have to move way too much due to re-positioning and lose DPS time.

5)- Bracer slot. I prefer to use Strongarms for the extra multiplier over Nemesis when going higher GRs. It allows for more consistency since you don't always get a bunch of Pylons, and Nemesis does nothing for RGs whereas the Strongarm debuff works even if the mobs aren't pulled by BH.

6)- Energy Twisters. Another option I like to use when doing lower GRs is to use the Twister bracers and use Gale Force or Wicked Wind instead of Black Hole. This lets you round up a ton of trash mobs and blow them all up really, really fast with the pull. Plus the extra Fire damage from Gale Force is nice. Twisters get buffed by the bracer, Deathwish, and Sigil, too, so it's some nice extra dps added.

7)- Arcane version. There's also a good Arcane-based setup that you can use that utilizes Unleashed for EB and Arcane Attunement rune on WoF instead of BH or Twisters. You lose the pull that BH or Twisters offer, but for the lower GR range when you're able to round up ridiculous number of mobs it can be quite devastating while not relying on another cooldown.

8)- Frozen Solid. It's another option to use instead of BH, Twisters, or WoF, and then going with APDs for another layer of defense.

9)- T13. You can actually do T13 decently well with the build by dropping Deathwish for Aether Walker, use the Wormhole rune (to save on AP when Teleporting), use Astral Presence instead of UA, but you'll definitely need APoC and some more RCR as well (one of my AWs has RCR on it). I basically teleport around and just go Elite hunting on T13 with it if/when I decide to use the build there (which is rare, I'd rather use my LoN Frozen Orb build for that). Losing Deathwish damage is perfectly fine there since our multipliers are so huge now.

Anyhow, just wanted to add my 9 cents to the mix since it's also a build that I HIGHLY enjoy (keeps you on your toes a lot and isn't as "lazy" as the TR Meteor Shower build when doing higher clears) and one that I've been using ever since they buffed Sigil, WoH, and Deathwish. I hope that Blizzard does something to buff the build a little bit so that it can be added to the ever growing list of viable builds at the higher end of the solo GR climbing spectrum.

Take care, and I hope to hear your thoughts on things soon. :)
In before Cratic :p

Hi Malakai,

some background:

I have been following your guides, vids and tips since season 4 or 5, when I switched from Crusader to your old fashioned lightning wizard with your shard of hate and AT SD :-) You recorded a vid just for me to demonstrate how to play it in a better way as I did in my vid. I learned a lot and had a lot of fun playing like you afterwards.

The last season I just copied your Tal 6 Channeling Meteor setup of Shien and reached a GR105 as a fun casual. I was very happy to be able do so! Sorry for being such a copycat :p

Now back to the thread:

I even saw your DMO EB setup during S12 and now in S13 I had almost everything collected to play your setup, but some things are already missing, to have so much fun like you and Cratic in his vid. But during a live Twitch stream of Cratic - playing Tal 6 EB channeling speeds - I remembered your setup and gave him the hint to have a look at your profile. He tried it and seemed to be very happy about the result. :-)

So now I'm very happy to have you both Wizard experts back in the discussion about builds that I may enjoy later!

Thank you both for giving me permanently new reasons to play D3 again with some fun.

Best Regards,
Ravolos
Hi Malakaï,
Long time no see indeed and happy to see you around, again ! : )

I came back like 3-4 weeks ago (after a 1 year break, playing Nioh on the PS4) and really enjoyed seeing EB was resurrected even if not the meta (as a skill fan since the CM era, back in 1.0X).

So yeah , I tried the current meta (FB + meteor) and did not like it, so I tried to work my way up in GR investing in DMO-EB (DMO always been appealing to me, too).
I will definitely keep working on that build. So thank you for your inputs (had forgotten about LoH on the weapon lol).

Besides, I have a question : how do you manage the Halo of Karini buff proc VS single targets (RG anyone ?) since we have to melee with EB ? Very accurate positionning or positionning management (back and forth), I expect ?

Thanks in advance for helping. : )
Hello Malakai, long time no see. I think I saw you last when we were messing around with Static Discharge builds like 1-2 years ago!

Back when 2.6.1 was PTR, I did some relatively sophisticated (for gnuplot!) simulations of EB comparing different cooldowns, runes and items (like CoE vs ORotZ). You might find some of it intuitive and some of it counter-intuitive:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20759177904?page=1
This post has lots of follow up posts testing other configurations.
Nice build, but now I'm curious what this music might be....
Hey, Ravolos! I definitely remember you. It's funny you posted, too, because I was just thinking about that video I posted back in the day because of the music I used in it. I'm glad that I was able to help you out some and that you're still playing the game. :D

I really miss those days when we were trying to push non-conventional builds as high as they could go. You learn a lot about the game and how to play better when you put limitations on yourself. Plus you can see how a lot of those non-conventional builds eventually received more item support and were able to push even higher. Items like Manald Heal, and the buffs to Nilfur's, Woh, Deathwish, Sigil, Unstable Scepter, Triumvirate, etc really helped propel those "Tier 2-3" builds from back in the day into highly competitive builds. It's nice to know that the Devs were paying attention to things and wanted to make the game more fun for us Wizards. Because 84 seasons of Archon dominance was just something that totally turned me (and many others I'm sure) off from the game.

Now if we can just get them to support Electrocute builds (and LoN builds in general for Wizards) to where they're competitive... ^_^
03/20/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Gelador
Hi Malakaï,
Long time no see indeed and happy to see you around, again ! : )


Thanks, man. You too!


So yeah , I tried the current meta (FB + meteor) and did not like it, so I tried to work my way up in GR investing in DMO-EB (DMO always been appealing to me, too).


Yea, I'm not really a fan of FB either myself. It's strong, no doubt. I just don't like how vulnerable I am until I find either an elite or a huge pack of mobs to set on fire. Would be nice if they doubled the bonuses you get per mob but cut the number of mobs you needed on fire to get the max bonuses. Would make it much more fluid and enjoyable IMO.


Besides, I have a question : how do you manage the Halo of Karini buff proc VS single targets (RG anyone ?) since we have to melee with EB ? Very accurate positionning or positionning management (back and forth), I expect ?


A combination of both, depending on the mob/RG. Some RGs you're able to position carefully in order to always have the HoK buff. Others you have to Teleport in and out in order to maintain it. Just have to really pay attention to things, which I fail at sometimes still. Wormhole and Reversal Teleport can really help, but you lose the DR from Safe Passage, which can hurt.
03/21/2018 08:49 AMPosted by aloc
Nice build, but now I'm curious what this music might be....


I hope you guys enjoy the music selection I chose for the video that I might post, as they're one of my favorite bands by far and they have a new album coming out next month. With my videos I always try to not only showcase new tech or new build ideas for others to build upon, but to also introduce folks to the music I enjoy that I feel deserve more exposure. I've gotten messages in-game and on YouTube from quite a few folks that thanked me for getting them into a lot of the music I put behind my videos, which is always cool to hear about. :)
03/22/2018 05:12 AMPosted by Malakai
Hey, Ravolos! I definitely remember you. It's funny you posted, too, because I was just thinking about that video I posted back in the day because of the music I used in it. I'm glad that I was able to help you out some and that you're still playing the game. :D


That's awesome! :-)

To be honest I didn't like your background music always, because I'm not a hard rock or metal fan :p

I even put some credits to you regarding S12 without you being active in the forums:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20759329835?page=6#post-118

Thanks Cratic, Bluddshed, Ged, Malakai and sVr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mLuxUlKjXA
( Diablo 3 PS4 S12 GR105 Wizard Tal6 Meteor Para 1040 16k Int )


Cloning your char Shien and following the guides of the others :p and remembering your tips from the past by using AT:SD and playing melee.

As you can see I'm still active as a Fun Casual guy, but now on the PS4. Still fighting against the controller ;)

Yes, good old times! After testing a lot and copying meta speed builds i now returned to my favorite ecute style for farming bounties and T13 SSF: Tal 6, FB2, Pig Sticker equipped (>2,1 APS w/o Gogok), AW in the cube, F&R and Gogok & Zeis, so not melee. I really enjoy the playstyle!

Cratic prepared similar proposes for that kind here for me: https://www.d3planner.com/794687448 I'm always testing new variations about that.

I even like Tal 6 Non Channeling Fire Meteor Shower by using ecute during porting and triggering F&R for speed farming. 70s to 75s in 3 to 4.5 minutes around Para 830 in S13 without augs. Wonderful!

Above that switching between your and Cratics DMO EB, DMO Orbit (I wish the lightning rune was competive!), Tal 6 lazy Met Channeling speed and Vyr MH Lightning Chant whatever I'd like to play in that moment. Two wizards in the season, now 9 builds stored :p

Still thinking about what to push with in S13 SSF. I gonna observe your findings in this thread. Perhaps I will push with DMO Channeling EB.

I hope Cratic will find some time to react on this thread by himself soon! :-)

Take Care,

Ravolos
Malakai!

Admire your work, enjoyed AT:SD back in the day, as well as Twister and Arcane orb builds.

Love the build idea, by the way. Including a pull with EB and Etched sigil works surprisingly well.

Adapted the DMO EB setup over the week prior to the video for a speed setup. Very rocky at first, was getting very slow clears, but after many more swaps, landed on something that was unique, tanky, and fun, and felt like sharing it.

I feel bad now that I've made a few minor mistakes in the video guide, and stolen some of your thunder.

I questioned about putting out a video at all, but after looking at how much I'd altered it compared to your original (at the time was looking at the ranslor + twister setup), I felt the build was different enough to put a guide out on.

If you do put out a video or a written guide for a higher pushing solo build, I'll be sure to promote it, and hopefully correct some of my mistakes. You can send me a PM in game, on diablo fans, or twitch, and I'll help out where I can.

Apologies for not replying earlier. I've been sick this week, and when I have been well I am working. Hoping to get better soon.

1)- Event Horizon.

Good point. I should have emphasized the strength of this rune a bit more, especially for pushing. I was speaking from the context of running the speed GRs, which, when at that speed level, those elite affixes don't hurt quite as bad, but still a good option.
2)- Unity.

Ah rings, yes! It's preference here mostly. I prefer the tankier setup for solo speed, and the ability to slot extra mobility on the teleport rune. I did test both Zodiac and CoE. I have to say I prefer the CoE to Zodiac at current, since Zodiac tends to randomly reduce cooldown of the other cooldown based skills on the bar (not always EB).

As far as the speed goes, technically CoE + Safe Passage allows more damage, but I both found it harder to survive (mostly against RGs), and slower to traverse the less dense rifts. Hence how I ended up on Unity for the time being. Wanted to preserve that 5th gem roll. =)
3)- APoC.

Ah, interesting. I think the need arises for APoC because I swapped out of PoTS, and also don't have that extra RCR roll on gear at the moment (curse my pauldrons of despair~!). But you are right, as long as you have Hergbrashes, the fire EB gives quite high allowance for resource.
4)- LoH.

Thanks for the testing here. Again, in the video I put out, I was talking in regards to the speed version, which bracer roll felt perfectly fine, especially with the Unity in place. On the written guide I did include LoH on weapon as an option. Good to know it's better to have there for higher pushes.
5)- Bracer slot.

I agree. Strongarms will be better for pushing especially.
6)- Energy Twisters.

The pixel pull was undeniably fun, and really good at dispensing trash. I found this setup good for trash heavy rifts, but overall less consistent for a speed than BH, mostly because you can combine the black hole with Nemesis bracer.
7)- Arcane version.

Had this in mind, though did not test it out for speeds. Probably one of the higher damage configs, but I have doubts on it's efficacy at low density rifts, even with Zodiac equipped.
8)- Frozen Solid.

Ah, I remember this one. Might prove very fun indeed. The main benefit as I recall was that you could drop a defensive ring. Not sure if dropping Karini would be worth going after, but definitely some builds that could be fun with this in mind.
9)- T13.

Wow, cool build, seems similar to the DMO orbit AW build that used to be around. I'll have to try it out.
03/20/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Malakai
I hope that Blizzard does something to buff the build a little bit so that it can be added to the ever growing list of viable builds at the higher end of the solo GR climbing spectrum.

Me too. Me too. I'd love to see EB in general get a bit of a boost (hopefully with many different runes still viable).

Thanks, cheers, and loves!
03/22/2018 05:12 AMPosted by Malakai
Now if we can just get them to support Electrocute builds (and LoN builds in general for Wizards) to where they're competitive... ^_^

Shh, no one talks about LoN any more.

I'd love to expand that into: support Signature based builds. Electrocute is amazing, the chains are awesome, but you also have Spectral Blades, MM that are now antiquated.
Besides, I have a question : how do you manage the Halo of Karini buff proc VS single targets (RG anyone ?) since we have to melee with EB ? Very accurate positionning or positionning management (back and forth), I expect ?

A combination of both, depending on the mob/RG. Some RGs you're able to position carefully in order to always have the HoK buff. Others you have to Teleport in and out in order to maintain it. Just have to really pay attention to things, which I fail at sometimes still. Wormhole and Reversal Teleport can really help, but you lose the DR from Safe Passage, which can hurt.

If the RG chases well, you can run back just far enough for Karini to proc, then the RG will close the distance. Takes practice to estimate right though.
03/22/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Malakai
hope you guys enjoy the music selection I chose for the video that I might post

Awesome I'll have to check the music and bands out as well.
Sorry I haven't responded to this in a long time. Been super busy with work and some other things and haven't really had a lot of free time to play or post until the last few days.

Soooo... after getting frustrated at not being able to get a video I was happy with for a 105 clear, and after continually thinking to myself how much I would love to have both Twisters + Ranslor's AND Black Hole, and constantly hurting for defense, I started to look at other options. While going through some of my characters for other gear, I realized something that I should have a long time ago...

Firebird's uses the exact same gear slots, but has a free cheat death proc, and has a higher set bonus multiplier and the extra damage from the burn which more than makes up for slotting in Unity instead of ORotZ or CoE. Not to mention not needing Bubble anymore, thus allowing me to use both Twisters and Black Hole in the same build. This also allows for the +15% from Gale Force, too.

The results are pretty amazing so far. Survivability shot way up, and damage is fantastic. Not all of my gear is augmented yet, but I'm still able to clear faster than the DMO setup. I'm really, really loving it. Especially the playstyle. I traverse through the rift, using Twisters to pull the trash along until I either find an Elite pack or have a huge pack of mobs. Then I pull them together all tight with a Twister, Black Hole them (Spellsteal is godly here), and blow them all up. If I find an Elite pack, I ignite them with the set bonus, then pull in a bunch of trash with the Twisters, Black Hole them, and go to work on em. I can really see this pushing higher than the DMO version, especially when you're able to get those super dense rifts and take full advantage of Spellsteal if survivability allows when dropping Event Horizon.

Once I get my gear all augmented up, I'll try pushing again to see how high it can go. Plus I need a bunch more Rift Keys since I used them all up the other day farming on my DH and Necromancers. I really wish they'd do away with Keys already, or make more ways to get a bunch of them at once (Cube recipe, Bounties, Rift Key Goblins, clearing GRs several levels under your max clear gives your Key back when you finish it in under a certain amount of time, a vendor where you spend your mostly useless Gold on them, etc). No one wants to do mindless T13 Rifts for hours upon hours for a whole week just to have fun pushing in GRs for a day or two. It feels too much like work, saving your pennies all week just to have fun at the movies or shopping for a day or two and going back to being broke again. Games are supposed to be an escape from all that mess and not be punishingly tedious before you can have the fun you want.

Anyhow, back to the game and then some sleep. I'll keep you guys updated if folks are interested.
Good idea, using Firebirds, and I do love some FB EB action. It's actually one of the builds i've been pushing for fun this season. Can't wait to try out what you end up deciding on.

My own endeavors with this type of build have relied on fishing for better mob type and on the templar's pull (using bone chill / arlyse / APDs), but I can see where having one or both consistent pulls might come in handy. At the very least, gameplay would be more dynamic, more active perhaps with having multiple pulls, similar to condemn sader.
04/17/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Malakai
I really wish they'd do away with Keys already, or make more ways to get a bunch of them at once

Very much agreed, the game needs more methods to get keys faster and easier, or undo their need altogether.

This season I intend to push on several builds (5-6) that I wanted to push in the past but never got around to trying out. It's requiring an inordinate amount of keys to both augment and push these builds.
Hi mal :)

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