Blizzard vs 3rd Party Software

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If this is true, I'll laugh so hard at the people that thought thud was not against Blizzard EULA because they were not banned.

But again, only if this information is true.
Some of the posts are really amusing to read.

>Cheaters need to cheat because cheating is where it's at when your a high level competitor.
>Casual players can't understand how important it is to gain the edge with 3rd party software in order to make it to the top?
>Blizzard has authorized the use of 3rd party cheat programs since they exist and so many players use them.
>There will be a negative effect if the cheaters can no longer cheat and stop playing.
>Cheating allows for a level playing field since so many cheat.

Seems to me that removing the ability to use 3rd party programs levels the playing field completely.

It's obvious that the botters gain a huge advantage as far as reducing the effort/time behind the keyboard needed to become more powerful. Botting is like running a marathon against others, but only having to do part of the race. Yes, it takes skill to win in the end, but it also requires endurance to get there.

Then there is THUD. On one hand, those in favor of THUD tell you it's needed to expedite the process of progress in the game. On the other, the same people will tell you that THUD adds no advantage, so it should be permitted. Again, no THUD equals a level playing field for everyone.

Then there is the argument of players leaving. Who honestly cares? If they do get banned, Blizzard already gained their money, same if they don't get banned. Difference being that those who get banned, and still wish to play, now have to pay again. That an all the threads we have with players no longer interested in playing, or coming back, because of cheaters. I rather have honest players return, or new players come to the game, than have the cheaters remain cheating.

Then there is that "Casual" verses "Dedicated high end player" BS. Profiles don't indicate dedication to the game. I'm casual, as is my wife. I play the game quite a bit and enjoy it, despite my lowly status and less than pristine skills. Public bounties are often plagued by botters which effect even us casuals. Also, I don't have to strive for the leaderboard to appreciate that some of my fellow players that play legitimately do. It's called having respect for others in your community.

Inconsequential, yet a nice perk will be coming to these forums and not have 30 threads asking when Blizzard will punish/remove cheaters. That and having so many threads derailed into yet another argument about bots and cheaters. Might even create a positive atmosphere for would be players looking into the game, who knows.

In the end I would say this. The web sites offering 3rd party services are very instructive in explaining the methods of masking their software so as to not get caught and banned. If such programs were accepted as fair play by Blizzard, such anti-detection methods would not be necessary. In short; if you cheat, you know you cheat, so stop claiming innocence.
This Friday will be interesting when the patch goes live.

Also, with S13 essentially being the same as S12, it will be super interesting to see what the Leaderboards will look like as the season goes along if THUD and Bots stays non-functioning throughout the season :)
Blizzard allowed addons in wow since day 1. Deadly boss mod had been considered a must for over 10 years now, even for the worst of noob raiders and it's ok with everyone.
Wow addons collect tons of game info for players to analyze and improve their performance. But in diablo it's cheating somehow? This game already functions like a broken slot machine.
Sokon, you're right on the spot, buddy.
02/19/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Evenstar
Blizzard allowed addons in wow since day 1. Deadly boss mod had been considered a must for over 10 years now, even for the worst of noob raiders and it's ok with everyone.
Wow addons collect tons of game info for players to analyze. But in diablo it's cheating somehow? This game already functions like a broken slot machine.


They allowed addons within their own specific addon sandbox. Diablo has no such sandbox.
02/19/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Evenstar
Blizzard allowed addons in wow since day 1.


WoW Addons are:

-not third party software
-are text files (lua), not .exe files
-use the sandbox Blizzard built
-use the API interface that Blizzard provided
-are controlled by Blizzard in that Blizzard can break any that they don't like

That is why they are ok. Blizzard designed WoW to have an Addon interface on purpose. Of course people are ok with that.

They are not ok with cheating though - which gets accounts suspended and banned in WoW too. It also got a major bot maker for WoW shut down after several court cases.

Comparing WoW addons to actual cheating programs and bots is a false comparison. Stop trying to justify cheating. It is never, under any circumstances, ok.
02/19/2018 09:31 AMPosted by MissCheetah
WoW Addons are:

-not third party software
-are text files (lua), not .exe files
-use the sandbox Blizzard built
-use the API interface that Blizzard provided
-are controlled by Blizzard in that Blizzard can break any that they don't like


False and true: WoW addons are third party software: they are software and written not by me nor Blizzard, ie., by a third party. They are not only text files, but may contain other files too. However, they only work on the API provided by Blizzard inside the sandbox provided by Blizzard, and therefore Blizzard has complete control over what they can do. There are only a couple of things that addons can technically do, but are forbidden to.
Like I said, only map reveal can be considered as an actual cheat. Rest of the stuff hud provides is a nice information to know that doesn't make or break anything.
02/19/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Evenstar
Like I said, only map reveal can be considered as an actual cheat. Rest of the stuff hud provides is a nice information to know that doesn't make or break anything.


Thud or no Thud, LB will not change much or at all with it working or not. They would change if they would ban all botters, but a fact that map hacks are working or not will not affect much in terms of getting the ranks. It’s dead simple, folks who push go for certain maps and mobs anyways, and can play it with or without google maps. It’s not like 4000, 6000 or more hours of competitive play will all of the sudden disappear. Pylon locations, progression, good mob types, this is constant, not variable.

I understand both sides of the coin in this argument, folks want leveled field while others want basic functionality of in game parameters enhanced. In the end it will not matter at all to be honest. Competitive players will be still light years ahead in the game, casuals will still whine, complain and ask for paragon caps or other handicap matters just to achieve something without actually achieving anything. This is not gonna go away, it’s not like 100% cheat and exploit free game will all of the sudden make forums here stop complaining. It’s dead simple, there is a huge discrepancy between folks who play end game and the rest of the world, and no matter where we will go from there, it will not change, at all. A lot of Casual solo players will still be the same, and accuse everybody else of something, be it even elitism, from lack of other arguments.
02/19/2018 09:56 AMPosted by S4v4G3
02/19/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Evenstar
Like I said, only map reveal can be considered as an actual cheat. Rest of the stuff hud provides is a nice information to know that doesn't make or break anything.


Thud or no Thud, LB will not change much or at all with it working or not. They would change if they would ban all botters, but a fact that map hacks are working or not will not affect much in terms of getting the ranks. It’s dead simple, folks who push go for certain maps and mobs anyways, and can play it with or without google maps. It’s not like 4000, 6000 or more hours of competitive play will all of the sudden disappear. Pylon locations, progression, good mob types, this is constant, not variable.

I understand both sides of the coin in this argument, folks want leveled field while others want basic functionality of in game parameters enhanced. In the end it will not matter at all to be honest. Competitive players will be still light years ahead in the game, casuals will still whine, complain and ask for paragon caps or other handicap matters just to achieve something without actually achieving anything. This is not gonna go away, it’s not like 100% cheat and exploit free game will all of the sudden make forums here stop complaining. It’s dead simple, there is a huge discrepancy between folks who play end game and the rest of the world, and no matter where we will go from there, it will not change, at all. A lot of Casual solo players will still be the same, and accuse everybody else of something, be it even elitism, from lack of other arguments.

True that, if you need festering with a conduit you don't need a map hack to play that.
Map hack makes high level 1% runs a lot more consistent.
02/19/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Evenstar
Like I said, only map reveal can be considered as an actual cheat. Rest of the stuff hud provides is a nice information to know that doesn't make or break anything.


S4v4G3

Competitive players will be still light years ahead in the game, casuals will still whine, complain and ask for paragon caps or other handicap matters just to achieve something without actually achieving anything.

Casual solo players will still be the same, and accuse everybody else of something, be it even elitism, from lack of other arguments.


I'm sorry, did some casual player steal your lunch at some point? You know, speak of whining, I don't recall many casual players demanding that Class "X" be nerfed because they are capable of doing higher GR's than class "Y". Are the casual players suggesting that Blizzard should allow cheats because their needed by the top so called competitive players? Can't recall them complaining about the waste of time Rift Fishing is in their game, nor the lack of perfect layout dungeons. They also don't whip out their profile and compare it to a others in order to explain that the person responding is wasting time and needs to learn to play like them.

Most casuals will quickly tell you that they don't care in the least about the leader boards. They do however care about fellow legitimate players, you know the high end ones, getting hosed over by cheaters.

They also care about the fairness of having to spend their time gathering materials, doing bounties, farming for gear and rift stones, while some botters set it and forget it with impunity. It also sucks as a casual to get botters in a public bounty group.

Oh, as far as elitism complaints? I think those who dismiss the casual players as not deserving an opinion about cheaters because they don't play high end anyway sorta demonstrates why that term is thrown around. You don't have to be in the top 100 of the game to recognize that cheaters ruin the enjoyment of others.
...

S4v4G3

Competitive players will be still light years ahead in the game, casuals will still whine, complain and ask for paragon caps or other handicap matters just to achieve something without actually achieving anything.

Casual solo players will still be the same, and accuse everybody else of something, be it even elitism, from lack of other arguments.


I'm sorry, did some casual player steal your lunch at some point? You know, speak of whining, I don't recall many casual players demanding that Class "X" be nerfed because they are capable of doing higher GR's than class "Y". Are the casual players suggesting that Blizzard should allow cheats because their needed by the top so called competitive players? Can't recall them complaining about the waste of time Rift Fishing is in their game, nor the lack of perfect layout dungeons. They also don't whip out their profile and compare it to a others in order to explain that the person responding is wasting time and needs to learn to play like them.

Most casuals will quickly tell you that they don't care in the least about the leader boards. They do however care about fellow legitimate players, you know the high end ones, getting hosed over by cheaters.

They also care about the fairness of having to spend their time gathering materials, doing bounties, farming for gear and rift stones, while some botters set it and forget it with impunity. It also sucks as a casual to get botters in a public bounty group.

Oh, as far as elitism complaints? I think those who dismiss the casual players as not deserving an opinion about cheaters because they don't play high end anyway sorta demonstrates why that term is thrown around. You don't have to be in the top 100 of the game to recognize that cheaters ruin the enjoyment of others.


I don’t know what beef you got with me, but I suggest you grill it up and eat it, because you are barking wrong tree here.

If anyone from mid-top end understands casual playerbase it is me, because I was one, with 400 paragon and hopelessly looking for help with builds, not too long ago. I was also a dude who lost several ranks in top 10-20 because of “players” with 23 hour a day average. I was also a dude who had issues to get a group going because I refused to use Thud in seasons. So, I suggest you ask around in barb forums about me or Evenstar, and see what are we doing there everyday, than go on with your tirade against us. Because as is, there are 100’s of casual players that progress in game due to the work we do there, everyday, for very long time, along with tons of other players.
02/19/2018 10:35 AMPosted by S4v4G3
I don’t know what beef you got with me, but I suggest you grill it up and eat it, because you are barking wrong tree here.


Dude, I'm using that with my co-workers. Brilliant.

02/19/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Griff
They do however care about fellow legitimate players, you know the high end ones, getting hosed over by cheaters.


Nah, I don't care about fellow high end legitimate players. I'm going to be honest. I love me some me.
02/19/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Evenstar
if you need festering with a conduit you don't need a map hack to play that.


I cannot agree with that. Especially if you have conduit pylon you want to have map hack to drag four or five elite on one point and to kill all with conduit.
02/18/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Evenstar
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I could care less about xp/hr, health %s on mobs, or whether I'm at 98.1 or 98.9% rift progression (seriously, that's beyond stupid).

Because you don't play competitively.


Please, enlighten me as to how knowing the 10th of a percentage in a Rift is helpful.

02/18/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Evenstar
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Exactly how competitive are you if you have to cheat?

I don't cheat. Never botted paragons and don't even have a bounty bot.


TurboHUD is cheating, therefore you cheat. Sorry. The definition of cheating isn't some moving target that varies from person to person.
I'm no high-end player (or even a mid-end player) so excuse my ignorance but wouldn't not having THUD have an impact on the leaderboards?

My understanding is that many (not all) zBuilds use THUD to find/pull mobs. So while some parties will continue to go along with no impact, there will be many that will not be able to push as high as they were able to due to dependencies on THUD that they had before? So that means less higher clears overall?
"Good riddance," I say. In terms of getting a top spot on the leader boards, a map hack is arguably more consequential than a bot, as the main function of a bot has been to acquire Rift Stones and complete Bounties. Granted, I have never used either, because a game licence is worth more than a temporary spot on the leader boards. Of course, lately, it seems that a lot of players have cheated with relative impunity, so they might be in for a bit of a shock. Well, you reap what you sow.

In the forums, we witness bot users point the finger at map hacks, and see map hack users point the finger back at bots. But, cheaters are cheaters, and so I hope that Blizzard's latest attempt to clean up the leader boards sends a message to all of them.

"Evil shall never be allowed to prevail..." unless Russia hacks your elections. *Cough*
So is this confirmed?

As in it's ruled out that the player wasn't an exploiter that was going to have their account banned anyway and the timing is a coincidence?

Gotta be sure before people start partying in Tristram...
02/18/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Evenstar
How knowing your xp per hour, xp number on your bar, location of your teammates, skill multiplier formulas are cheating? These should be customizable from game hud options.
Only map reveal function can be considered cheating, but believe me, top LB players know all maps like their own home.


It's quite simple, really.

Is it something the developers programmed in?

If yes, then it's fine.

If no, then it's cheating.

Should some of these things probably be added to the game? Sure. But until they add it to the game, then doing it means you have access to information that isn't available to every player. As long as you're making use of such information then you are a cheater. There is no gray area.

The impact may not be the same, but what does that matter? Are you any less of a shoplifter if you steal a shirt instead a stereo? Nope. Still a thief, either way.

02/18/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Griff
I like the two strike idea put forward by another poster. First time caught using THUD and it's a 30 day suspension. Second time, it's an account ban. First strike you can claim ignorance and bite the bullet, second time, well, you were warned.


I like this better. "You knowingly broke the rules, here's the banhammer."

Suspensions are for those few exploits where it's plausible that it was an accidental activation on the player's part. THUD and similar are willful, blatant breaking of the rules. There's no "oh, well I didn't know that was cheating" shield to hide behind.

02/19/2018 02:37 AMPosted by Kikaha
02/18/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Griff
It's time for the cheaters out there to have to legitimately earn their status or walk away.

That will be fun when all the whiners thinking hud = 10 grifts lvl ahead will understand that they still can't compete with ex-hud users.
I have seen very good players without hud, very good players with hud, and very bad players with hud. It doesn't make you better or worse, it just removes a bit of the RNG fiesta high grifts are.


There is no downside to getting rid of cheaters. Don't care how much of a difference you think it makes.

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