Introducing the Solo Self-Found League!

General Discussion
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02/18/2018 04:04 AMPosted by Craftyßanana
I'm pretty sure it would deter most people who would otherwise be interested in participating and would in turn weaken the message to Blizzard that part of the community would like this solo-competative mode.
Let's go one step further then and imagine Blizzard introduces SSF to D3. You know what happens then - current botters paradise extends, because bounties are the MOST BORING thing ever created in an aRPG game.

What I am trying to explain to you all is that if you want to have meaningful competition you have to make a meaningful format - SSF only does NOT create any meaning by itself. SSF in PoE is pretty popular and yet their team is clueless and sorts the ladder by first to reach 100 instead of fastest time to reach 100 making account sharing flourish.

You are doing the same thing here - when someone more experienced than you points out that such thing is not a serious competition (me, Ouroboros, TianZi), because nothing is made to stop the cheating, you all go and downvote like it's the end of the world.

SSF competition can only work if:

1) There is time requirement - time invested has to be taken into consideration in order botting and account sharing to not influence the top of the ladder.

OR

2) There is a cap of some sort - Rifts completed, Paragon level, etc...
02/18/2018 04:22 AMPosted by Skelos
You are doing the same thing here - when someone more experienced than you points out that such thing is not a serious competition (me, Ouroboros, TianZi), because nothing is made to stop the cheating, you all go and downvote like it's the end of the world.


Claiming everyone is downvoting you because they aren't as experienced as you is pretty arrogant, you don't know jack about anyone. I downvoted you because I think what you're suggesting would be too big of a hurdle for most people to stay interested and doesn't even prevent people from cheating.

We clearly have a differing perspective, so much so that it's pretty pointless to debate each other as neither one of us will budge. All I can say is that if don't like what Leviathan has created, don't participate.
02/18/2018 04:56 AMPosted by Craftyßanana
I downvoted you because I think what you're suggesting would be too big of a hurdle for most people to stay interested and doesn't even prevent people from cheating.
02/18/2018 03:37 AMPosted by Skelos
So the league could look like this:
- Rifts completed requirement
- No ancient items used
- No bounties completed
How are you going to cheat in such format? Bot experience in campaign mode?

If you meant the video upload and review - forget it, it's obvious neither the participants nor the OP organizers are interested in such thing. Focus on the above and tell me how you cheat in it.
02/18/2018 05:12 AMPosted by Skelos
If you meant the video upload and review - forget it, it's obvious neither the participants nor the OP organizers are interested in such thing. Focus on the above and tell me how you cheat in it.


I was refering to the recording of everything, yes.

As for those other 3 suggestions, I think the rift completed limit is a bit much at first but if the SSF gets a big enough following, implement it at a later date if it had enough backing. The ban on ancient items doesn't feel good in a game that revolves around loot and I'm impartial to the no bounties, I'd play either way.
If you ban bounties and limit Rifts completed in order to destroy botting, you have to ban ancients to reduce the item variance, it's a natural follow-up. Such mode then destroys cheating and makes a league based on this kind of competition meaningful.

So, we are back at the beginning... If it is about competition - enforce rules, if it is about fun - why have rules like SSF tag in names, submission of GR clears and etc?
Posted by Skelos
So the league could look like this:
- Rifts completed requirement
- No ancient items used
- No bounties completed


It would actually be just as easy to cheat such a system. Limit to number of rifts completed? Alright so 3 other crusaders and I are just going to full-clear T13 and reset without ever turning in until we've all loot-shared fantastic gear and stockpiled enough DBs to craft a ton.

I'm not sure what no ancient items is supposed to accomplish other than bring everyone's power levels down. I appreciate the fact that over time everyone gets good drops eventually and would rather keep ancients.

No bounties completed...if you join a game after all 25 bounties are done does that show up as having done a bounty? I have a feeling talking to Tyreal alone isn't a bounty of itself, but lets assume that does show up on your profile and invalidate your participation. By limiting bounties to 0 you're taking out any builds that use RoRG or Illusory Boots unfortunately. Better to me would be limiting bounties to 25 or 50/week which is quite humanly possible and allows for all builds...but again if you just leech caches will your profile say you completed 5 bounties/cache or will it say none?

Nothing is cheat-proof, play the game the way you have the most fun and I will play the way I have the most fun, which next week will be SSF HC!
02/18/2018 12:39 AMPosted by DEATHWISH
02/17/2018 05:16 PMPosted by DOA
Not using vendors/crafting, that's just martyrdom.


That´s why this "Mode" is called SELF-Found.
And not self-bought/crafted/gambled.

If you don´t know what Self-Found is or don´t want to play Self-Found then don´t call it Self-Found.

02/17/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
basic idea here is just to provide a niche where solo-only players can gauge their performance against other like-minded players


No problem with that.Then call it Solo League
Anything else is false advertising.

Whatever. If you want to bog yourself down with semantics, that's your call. Everyone else will simply keep understanding the very simple rules presented by Leviathan here.

02/17/2018 11:29 PMPosted by TianZi
On the other hand, trying to force a "SSF" into the character name, yet not attempting to fully block out cheaters is a little awkward. Why make a specific naming requirement to join a competition that may already be tainted anyways? I'd rather submit full video evidence of my runs than have to tag "SSF" onto my character name. If the SSF tag was to fully police the players to make sure there is no cheating going on, that would at least make sense. Right now it simply sounds like a tag for self promotion.

Agreed. It's particularly problematic if all your character slots are already full with mules thanks to the appalling stash situation the game suffers from.
Guys lets stop hijacking this thread!

We have something the OP started that hopefully will impact the player base and possibly get Blizz/Diablo team to create a SSF mode of play, eventually.

Skelos and the others have made their points so please move on.

You clearly don't have all the concepts down.
Even though an SSF character in a PoE account can share with other SSF characters, we realize this breaks our rules.

We are going by an honesty system to keep this SSF league as pure as possible.
It's not easy going SSF and it's clearly not going to be worthwhile playing SSF while cheating. What's the point of the hours upon hours each day grinding solo when your heart is not in it anymore because you've fouled the water?

To me SSF league in D3 gives me something to shoot for.
I've played D3 since that horrible first night when D3 servers first went live years ago.
I mainly have played solo.
I can hit GR 90 in two weeks solo, once a new season has started.
I can reach paragon 1200+ in season solo.
I don't like group meta runs because someone is always holding things up while I am ready to move to next GR. It seems impossible to find a like minded group that can run for an hour at a time then take a 10 minute break and we actually start again in 10 minutes.

SSF is for me. I can do this because I'm already doing it 95% pure last season.
Now I do it pure and we have something almost noble and fun and with the SSF communities and the SSF clan we have family.
02/18/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Chetanji
Guys lets stop hijacking this thread!
Nobody hijacks anything here. I have more than 100 posts defending solo play on the forums including this productive thread, which gave rise to new additions to the game: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/18724766798

This post - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/13686549761?page=1#post-20 - was made exactly 3 years ago for example:
The sharing of items is already a HUGE buff for multies. So, what can be done to make solo plays worth it then?

Trials:
1) Need to be removed completely
OR
2) With a 2s/3s/4s key should NOT be possible to enter a solo GR

Experience:
1) Need a buff for solo
OR
2) Paragon needs a cap (800 for example)

Legendaries:
1) Need a buff for solo
OR
2) Need a nerf for multi

Gem upgrades:
1) 2s, 3s, 4s GR groups should reach the same level as highest solo class
OR
2) Gems need a cap (level 50 for example)


02/18/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Chetanji
We have something the OP started that hopefully will impact the player base and possibly get Blizz/Diablo team to create a SSF mode of play, eventually.
And what then? Bots magically start bugging in SSF and everybody enjoys fair competition? Or LBs are not needed? Why the mode then? You can play SSF now, too. Nobody stops you. A SSF league/mode has to offer fair competition otherwise it's pretty pointless.

02/18/2018 08:04 AMPosted by TubaHero37
Alright so 3 other crusaders and I are just going to full-clear T13
This is not SSF and can easily be verified by the achievements. But you can do this alone too: if you run Rifts without killing the RG this won't count in the profile (at least I remember it was so), but the monster counts will drastically differ from the other so if you do it for the experience people will notice. If you do it for the items, you will gain extremely tiny advantage probably since ancient items are forbidden by default.
02/18/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Skelos
This is not SSF and can easily be verified by the achievements.


I see now where you can check other people's achievements in game, but then we're back to needing a squeaky clean new account that doesn't have "join a cooperative game." If one were to go that route with a league since the account is fresh anyway, I think it would be a thing to do between seasons. Then bots don't even have a huge advantage due to the time window of 1-2 weeks that's usually between seasons. I don't think I'd personally participate due to not wanting to buy yet another D3+ROS (I got it for PC and two consoles already) but it sounds like it could be quite cheat-free without having to offer other odd restrictions like paragon caps and no-ancients.
02/18/2018 10:52 AMPosted by TubaHero37
needing a squeaky clean new account that doesn't have "join a cooperative game."
New account? Isn't each new Season restarting the achievements?

02/18/2018 10:52 AMPosted by TubaHero37
it could be quite cheat-free without having to offer other odd restrictions like paragon caps and no-ancients.
No, it can't. People will just bot like they do in the regular mode.
I don't understand why there's pages and pages of arguing here. All of the rules in the document and what's explained in the YT video are completely fine.

Skelos, if you want to create your own league with strict rules and limitations that make absolutely no sense then no one is stopping you from doing that.
The people behind this movement do not want to spend their entire season and free time watching terabytes of videos from hundreds of players. All the video talk is impractical and they're not the NSA!

You arguing about what you've said years ago and your ideas of what SSF should be is off-topic for this thread. The minds behind the creation of this SSF league already have thought of everything and included it in the document/video

Suggestions or ideas are one thing, but you're beating a dead horse into powder here.
New account? Isn't each new Season restarting the achievements?


It only restarts seasonal achievements...and honestly I'm looking through the list from last season and I'm not finding any that actually say whether or not they were done in multiplayer when looking at someone else's achievements.
02/18/2018 11:08 AMPosted by Replay
I don't understand why there's pages and pages of arguing here.
I'll sum it up for you since you obviously hate reading:
02/18/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Chetanji
We have something the OP started that hopefully will impact the player base and possibly get Blizz/Diablo team to create a SSF mode of play, eventually.
And what then? Bots magically start bugging in SSF and everybody enjoys fair competition? Or LBs are not needed? Why the mode then? You can play SSF now, too. Nobody stops you. A SSF league/mode has to offer fair competition otherwise it's pretty pointless.


02/18/2018 11:09 AMPosted by TubaHero37
It only restarts seasonal achievements...and honestly I'm looking through the list from last season and I'm not finding any that actually say whether or not they were done in multiplayer when looking at someone else's achievements.
Well, if this is true and there is no way to verify if someone plays SSF or not, the whole thing turns into one big parody.
You should know what to expect from those forums Skelos, as diablo 3 was transformed in a casual clusterf without any thought towards what happends "end game" so were forums transformed into a trolling clusterf. We talk with players who barely play seasons and expect them to understand what seasons are about. No more.

I will support what Leviatan is doing because I do want it to succeed, I will play the first weekend to give them a +1 player in the end but wont keep playing. Unless its official from Blizzard things don't really interest me. I think there is a greater chance to see a diablo 4 sooner than to see some new system introduced in diablo 3.
I have been interested in this kind of thing for a long time, as I only have ever played solo. There was a solo clan formed a couple years back that I joined where we could share information on how we were doing, which was fun for a while.

I will give this a shot, because I would really like to measure how I do against similar players under similar circumstances. my fear is that after a few days into the new season, there will be players listed at Paragon 700 and GR 95. If that happens, I will just drop out. But I do appreciate the effort that OP is proposing!
02/18/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Lscott
my fear is that after a few days into the new season, there will be players listed at Paragon 700 and GR 95. If that happens, I will just drop out. But I do appreciate the effort that OP is proposing!
Why? It seems possible solo without cheating.
Sorry if this has been asked before but does it matter where we put the SSF reference in our character name? Does it need to be before or after the character name?
02/18/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Lscott
I will give this a shot, because I would really like to measure how I do against similar players under similar circumstances. my fear is that after a few days into the new season, there will be players listed at Paragon 700 and GR 95.


I think I can do that on hardcore in first weekend, maybe not 700 para but 600 is easy peasy and with classes like crusaders that can go to the moon in solo you can bet you will see paragon 1000 gr 100 in firstweek on softcore.
02/18/2018 01:17 PMPosted by ETpagh
Sorry if this has been asked before but does it matter where we put the SSF reference in our character name? Does it need to be before or after the character name?


Anywhere in the name, I'm putting mine at the beginning but you can put it at the end if you want.

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