Ranged 4p Star Pact variant, 130+ish viable

03/17/2018 06:42 PMPosted by WorkWorkWork
This thread has came into my eye for long, I should have replied earlier.

The thing is, WoF is multiplicative while BH is additive. And in 4man, you have ~120 additive buff/debuff already. In other words, in a GG map, BH will provide ~150 additive, strongarm another 30, bringing additive to ~300, so 95% actual dmg increase. As for WoF, in a GG map, you always get 70+ stacks, so 280+% actual dmg buff.

Of course you can always use BH, it's a nice build, however it'll be nowhere close to the ceiling of WoF. Besides, WoF and BH could be combined, if you really want to push to the limit, though I don't like the playstyle that much. (Replace magic weapon by BH, and use FB 2piece to provide the 3rd fire skill) .

Besides, there're several WoF variant either have TP or illusory boots, which enable good use of Oculus.

The problem with any melee variants that try to run TP or Illusory boots is that they're losing any other options they could have put there. The big advantage with the ranged build and oculus is that you lose absolutely nothing to be able to stand in the oculus rings. In fact, for any of them that spawn more than 30 yards out, you're gaining quite a bit of damage.

You are correct about WoF being multiplicative. By increasing the density significantly and then adding in all of the possible group buffs, Black Hole falls behind significantly. One thing I would like to note though, is that technically it is possible to run WoF on the ranged version as well. Having to run back to get the bonus would be a little awkward, but you have a much higher cap on damage per meteor burst simply due to the zeis bonus being so much higher. That's not factoring in the ability to stand in oculus.

That being said at that point it's moreso a playstyle difference than really being a separate spec. The melee version could technically do this too, just making it so it stands on the outside of the gathered mobs rather than directly in the center.
03/18/2018 01:47 PMPosted by mcdundee
We also tried Frost Nova Deep Freeze for 10% CHC.

I have to say actually that using Frost Nova with Deep Freeze was actually one of the biggest surprises of all of our trials. That 10% crit chance increased the amount of burst that the build did rather ridiculously. Because almost every single mob that was hit by the meteor, was hit with a crit. The burst just skyrocketed because then every single bit of AD that bounced around was AD that was triggered by a hit that was a crit. Arguably, Frost Nova gave Black Hole a run for its money and maybe even beat it. It's certainly much easier to keep up, having nearly 100% uptime.
If you're aiming for 2m or 3m, I agree this variant might be better than the melee version, simply because we're more likely to run leaner (fewer mobs) w/o a zbarb. A higher burst (instead of higher DPS) is indeed better in this scenario.

However, w/ a zbarb, always go higher DPS, no doubt about it.
Fun thought. Could you wear Tals amulet and belt to get 2 piece bonus? Could the fire meteor ignite elites? Could run Focus and Restraint. Cube CoE. 4 man only I guess since you would lose HoK. I'm guessing you come out ok dmg wise giving up SoJ. Not sure if you can make do without SoD though.

Edit: I guess you would free up 1 skill slot and gain a few meteors, but they wouldn't proc AD. Guess that's a small gain. You could work in Black Thorns set and get 10% elite dmg and 10% elites dmg reduction and some ground immunities. lol

Focus and Restraint could open up for a HF amulet, or a moonlight ward or something. Seems like small gains though.
Does the fire thorns from the crafted demon set count as a fire skill for igniting the firebirds set bonus?
05/17/2018 08:53 AMPosted by panzerdoc
Does the fire thorns from the crafted demon set count as a fire skill for igniting the firebirds set bonus?

Nope. I tested many fire item procs to see if any count towards FB ignite. The only ones that work are FB2 and Tal2.
Wow thank you for this post it has real amazing insights. I had no idea all these combinations could be possible.
2 Questions for the Pros:
Background: currently pushing 113 GR in tal rash with 2280 para

I have messed with all sorts of TR builds, and am having trouble with 113. Isn't there a more viable build with TR? Anyone have any ideas how to get into higher GRs with it? i can play without unity, but even sporting a primal perfect jordan, the damage just doesn't seem to be there.

The hear of my issue: I play star pact and die over and over. Was there one "key" thing any of you found that changed your star pact solo runs from "die a lot" to "don't die a lot"? I am missing something key.

I generally aim for the same gear as the board leaders.

I am wondering if i just need more para for the resists, or maybe there is something i need to be more away of. I see players charging into a mass of mobs on the vids, but when i do it i end up dead as soon as the stun drops off.

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