How in your opinion skill system should be in D4?

Games & Technology
D3 is already done. You can criticize all day and it will probably never changed. But lets suppose that you can make changes into d4 skill system. What changes you will gonna make?

I personally will pick exactly the skill trees from D2 and make a simple change, instead of only skill point/level, allow a "sub skill point" too. That sub skill points can will add "modifications" to current skills. For example :

- Faster projectile speed
- Multiple projectiles
- Costs health instead of mana
- Increase damage and costs health and mana
- Casts other spell on hit
- Casts other spell on kill
- Elemental conversions
- Larger AOE
- Heal on hit
(...)
Each "modification" will affect the skill in a different way. Multiple projectiles will drastically increase the AOE usefulness of a spell like fireball but will reduce drastically the damage.

That way each "sub class" will be more unique. A Frozen orb sorc will have tons of different ways to be played. A wind druid will or have a great DPS or a great AOE effect. Or imagine how cool summon multiple bone spirits at once will be.
-Damage skill
-Defense skill
-Utility skill
-Resource Battery skill
-Ultimate skill
Only 4-5 skills should suffice, no need for more. Instead of dex, str, int we should have "main damage stat" written with big fonts and "Health" stat.

...
Now where do I remember those from?...
Just curious, LordVictor, what is your primary language?
04/06/2018 10:40 AMPosted by StoneCold
Just curious, LordVictor, what is your primary language?


Portuguese

04/06/2018 10:33 AMPosted by naksiloth
-Damage skill
-Defense skill
-Utility skill
-Resource Battery skill
-Ultimate skill
Only 4-5 skills should suffice, no need for more. Instead of dex, str, int we should have "main damage stat" written with big fonts and "Health" stat.

...
Now where do I remember those from?...


Don't forget the 120sec cooldowns and Zimbabwean inflation inspired damage scale. That is absolutely necessary!
Skill point allocation system (not a tree - no prerequisites except some level/stat requirements). Not every skill level will cost only 1 point, first level may cost 3 points to unlock, ultimate skill levels may require extra points. Scaling will be not always be straightforward. Upper level investments in a skill may continue increasing damage while the area of effect no longer increases.

All that is to avoid 1 point wonders, and also avoid situation where skill must be maxed by providing flexibilty for skills to fill certain roles at low investment eg. If a skill has a damage component and a CC component, it should be viable for CC with few points and viable for main AoE damage only with full point investment.

Then rune system to do kinda what you are talking about. I imagine world found runes. They are generic in that they can be applied to a wide range of skills from all different classes and unique in that there is only 1 like it so it is used in only one place. Several runes can be applied to one skill. They would be restricted to certain "types" of skills. Skills would be classified in many layers, by damage type, active or passive, ranged melee spell etc. and that would determine which runes could be applicable.

Additionally, runes might even be socketable into items instead of skills. That could have the effect of applying the rune's ability in the form of a to hit or be hit proc.
A skill system I think that could work well, with some modifications, would be how Skyrim did it. Specialize into some areas, or light on all for Jack of Trades. Different kind of skills per class, with multiply options.

With current system, I've always felt it would have been better of with only 3 runes per skill, but have 4-5 levels per rune to invest in.
04/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by KingD
A skill system I think that could work well, with some modifications, would be how Skyrim did it. Specialize into some areas, or light on all for Jack of Trades. Different kind of skills per class, with multiply options.

With current system, I've always felt it would have been better of with only 3 runes per skill, but have 4-5 levels per rune to invest in.


In therms of Elder Scrolls system i think that Morrowind is better than Skyrim
04/06/2018 11:50 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
04/06/2018 11:12 AMPosted by KingD
A skill system I think that could work well, with some modifications, would be how Skyrim did it. Specialize into some areas, or light on all for Jack of Trades. Different kind of skills per class, with multiply options.

With current system, I've always felt it would have been better of with only 3 runes per skill, but have 4-5 levels per rune to invest in.


In therms of Elder Scrolls system i think that Morrowind is better than Skyrim


Arx Fatalis skill system is way better but I doubt we'd ever get "FPS-ablo".
So, you want D2 all over again?
There is no D4.. Jesus!
04/06/2018 11:50 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r

In therms of Elder Scrolls system i think that Morrowind is better than Skyrim


So that basically you prefer system which allows player to become jack-of-all-trades (which was Morrowind system) rather than one which forces player to specialize (as in Skyrim)? While removing the attributes was a tiny bit of simplification, the system in Skyrim was overall a massive improvement.

In Morrowind (and Oblivion) when your skill increased to certain point, you'd always get "a perk" automatically to that skill. In Skyrim you'd have to choose yourself where to invest those perks and you'll have very limited amount of perk points to invest. In this regard Morrowind has no real customisation. The selected class only defined which skills counted towards character level and how fast those skills gained experience.

I know this is a bit offtopic but simply cannot comprehend how a system which basically lacks any proper customisation could better than one which has.
04/06/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Shanso
So, you want D2 all over again?

No, he wants PoE made by Blizzard.

Worse, IMO.
04/06/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Shanso
So, you want D2 all over again?


Improvements over d2 allowing more diversity via a system inspired by PoE

04/06/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Wyrmheart
04/06/2018 11:55 AMPosted by Shanso
So, you want D2 all over again?

No, he wants PoE made by Blizzard.

Worse, IMO.


A diablo with the best aspects of D2 and best aspects of PoE. IMHO is better than a "isometric wow" aka diablo 3.

04/06/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Kirottu
04/06/2018 11:50 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r

In therms of Elder Scrolls system i think that Morrowind is better than Skyrim


So that basically you prefer system which allows player to become jack-of-all-trades (which was Morrowind system) rather than one which forces player to specialize (as in Skyrim)? While removing the attributes was a tiny bit of simplification, the system in Skyrim was overall a massive improvement.

In Morrowind (and Oblivion) when your skill increased to certain point, you'd always get "a perk" automatically to that skill. In Skyrim you'd have to choose yourself where to invest those perks and you'll have very limited amount of perk points to invest. In this regard Morrowind has no real customisation. The selected class only defined which skills counted towards character level and how fast those skills gained experience.

I know this is a bit offtopic but simply cannot comprehend how a system which basically lacks any proper customisation could better than one which has.


yes, you are right morrowind is better due attribute system not skill system.
04/06/2018 12:25 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r

yes, you are right morrowind is better due attribute system not skill system.


Which was nothing but a burden due to shoddy implementation. You were basically forced to grind additional skills in order to get +5 to those attribute buffs on levelup. That wasn't fun and as a result you'll end up becoming jack-of-all-trades. No customisation, no depth.

Bad system. At the very least it's worse than in Skyrim. The whole basis of TES character system is learn by doing, you improve your skills by using them. The attributes were basically unnecessary for that. The attributes were included in earlier titles because of the ancient RPG mentality, meaning an RPG needs to have attributes. No, it does not. The attributes are not the only way to define an RPG character system.
i do enjoy a plus to stat or plus to skills type of system. like for example in d3 there are some runes that looks awesome but just underachieves. would be nice if we could actually buff it so we can actually test it out and make it work in the way we want to play.
04/06/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Kirottu
04/06/2018 12:25 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r

yes, you are right morrowind is better due attribute system not skill system.


Which was nothing but a burden due to shoddy implementation. You were basically forced to grind additional skills in order to get +5 to those attribute buffs on levelup. That wasn't fun and as a result you'll end up becoming jack-of-all-trades. No customisation, no depth.

Bad system. At the very least it's worse than in Skyrim. The whole basis of TES character system is learn by doing, you improve your skills by using them. The attributes were basically unnecessary for that. The attributes were included in earlier titles because of the ancient RPG mentality, meaning an RPG needs to have attributes. No, it does not. The attributes are not the only way to define an RPG character system.


I agree that attribute system in Morrowind could be better. Like no attribute cap and only +5,+3,+1 attribute per level up instead of you be able to get +5,+5,+5 but say that "ancient rpg mentality" i strongly disagree;

Attributes is a way to represent how a character is in relation with the world. The average person in DnD universe have 10 basic attributes. A pretty strong guy will have 16 STR. If everyone runs at the same speed, have the same strength and etc then everyone is a clone.

If you remove all RPG elements like character sheet, attributes, customization, etc, etc, etc you will have a adventure game. At the same way that if you remove all "shooter" mechanics like recoil, ballistics, bullet penetraion, etc from a shooter, you will have a interactive movie... And that is my main critique to modern """"rpg's"""", they are much more adventure games than RPG's. like fallout 4. Is a shooter, not a RPG. Skyrim have very little RPG elements but at least roleplay still possible if you instal a lot of mods.
You're still missing my point. Attributes are not the only way to define an RPG. If a feature contributes no actual depth to a system, it's pointless to keep it. Attributes in TES served no actual purpose. They added no depth, had no meaning, had no real effect in regard of customization. Why keep something pointless?

The character system in Skyrim, while lacking attributes, has bazillion times more customization and depth than previous titles. So was removing attributes really a meaningful loss? Nope.
How in your opinion skill system should be in D4?

I would want it to be basically the same as what we have in D3. If I preferred having to allocate individual skill points in some kind of permanent fashion, I would be playing D2, Torchlight 2, or PoE(?) right now instead of D3.
Imo, I hope that they make an entire new style of game. Sure, it should be within the genre of Diablo, but I hope for a larger game with more end game content.
More everything actually.
More builds, more maps, maps that is not always the same layout etc. etc.
I just want them to remove Paragon point caps in all categories, and reduce all set damage bonuses by a factor of 10. Game fixed.

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