So is the necromancer garbage?

General Discussion
I was thinking about buying the necromancer dlc but as a pet class he just seems kind of terrible and i don't really want to play his other styles. The fact that his skeletons only do 50% weapon damage compared to the WDs zombie dogs doing 120% seems crazy low.

On top of that, his max permanent pet count is lower than some none pet classes. So with having less pets, and weaker pets, what is the point of his pet builds? I could understand more numerous but weaker pets, or less pets but more powerful, but it seems he gets the worst of both worlds
In necro's pet builds most damage comes from Skeletal Mages, particulary with the Singularity rune, which is quite powerful.

What I personally don't like about necro is that the most powerful builds rely on Corpse Lance fueled by Land of the Dead. That's hilariously gimmicky playstyle. 10 seconds of massive damage, almost 2 minutes of doing nothing but herding enemies and staying alive.

Lately I've been playing Lazy Inarius. Not a pushing build (can do GR70 in ~5 minutes) but it's fun to just let the bonestorm melt everything around you.
04/25/2018 01:11 PMPosted by Kirottu
In necro's pet builds most damage comes from Skeletal Mages, particulary with the Singularity rune, which is quite powerful.

What I personally don't like about necro is that the most powerful builds rely on Corpse Lance fueled by Land of the Dead. That's hilariously gimmicky playstyle. 10 seconds of massive damage, almost 2 minutes of doing nothing but herding enemies and staying alive.

Lately I've been playing Lazy Inarius. Not a pushing build (can do GR70 in ~5 minutes) but it's fun to just let the bonestorm melt everything around you.

Yeah, he seems more like a mage than a necro. I am only really interested in playing a pet build and temp pets don't really count. They are pretty much spells with visuals of pets for a few seconds. I will probably wait for another sale on him, considering none of his sets even bolster his summon numbers
You have no idea, Necro is exact reverse whatever you assume he is. You're welcome.

04/25/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Froststorm
The fact that his skeletons only do 50% weapon damage compared to the WDs zombie dogs doing 120%


Skeletons hit a target at the same time, via Command Skeleton:
50%*7 = 350% weapon damage at the initial hit to a focused target. Unless you're a great fan of Stand Alone passive (use Devour-Ruthless or CS-Kill Command, easy) you'd want them to stick around and keep smacking away.

Zombie Dogs scatter and bodyblock 3 different targets:
120%*3 = 360% weapon damage to different targets overall once they engage and hit once. 5 dogs and it still means different targets. Dogs are only there to be a tank, or Sacrifice'd.

Difference is WD's Dogs require Sacrifice to deal proper damage spikes, while Necromancer's Skeletons are a whole pack on their own.

04/25/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Froststorm
more numerous but weaker pets


Skeletons max 7, Zombie Dogs max is 3. For reaching 5-6 Zombie Dogs, WD have to equip 3 dedicated passive abilities. Even if so, WD still lacks the ability to focus down a single target like Necromancer do. WD pet damage will be always scattered, while Necromancer can focus and intensify it at will.

When looked upon items for both aspects for becoming a pet build, WD obviously have way better choices rather than becoming a pet doc. ZD damage is actually pathetic and only can be focused through the usage of Sacrifice. That means you have to use low-end equipment just to improve Sacrifice and ZD spawn rate instead of your own pets' damage, or cater to Gargantuan for having a reliable source of damage dealer.
Necro pet build is viable(see leaderboards to get more info) but is different than WD. Is much more "active", in therms of damage per second, necro is not worse than WD but you need to constant re-summon Mages, constant revive, constant command skeletons, constant command golems...

Overall, i liked the blood skills IMHO fit better necromancer fantasy of master of life and death than poison but disliked that :
- Revives only last 15 sec, even 180 sec duration on D2 was too low.
- No bone wall/bone prison

Other think that i don't like is that even your minions scale only with weapon. I hate that everything in D3 is %WD and you can't improve on anything by your own, only wear different gear... But other classes have the same problem. More big, sharp and heavy your axe is, more damage your zombie dog will deal.

Skeletons hit a target at the same time, via Command Skeleton:
50%*7 = 350% weapon damage at the initial hit to a focused target. Unless you're a great fan of Stand Alone passive (use Devour-Ruthless or CS-Kill Command, easy) you'd want them to stick around and keep smacking away.

Zombie Dogs scatter and bodyblock 3 different targets:
120%*3 = 360% weapon damage to different targets overall once they engage and hit once. 5 dogs and it still means different targets. Dogs are only there to be a tank, or Sacrifice'd.


Also you can command skeleton
If you like the idea of having a new class and new legendary/set pieces to tinker around with builds, enjoy the current game content, but don't mind that the necromancer is similar only in name to the class of D2, you will probably have fun with this new class.

If you are expecting this to play the exact same way as the D2 necro, are expecting this to magically fix issues with build diversity/balance or add tons of new content, you will be disappointed.
04/25/2018 01:27 PMPosted by naksiloth
You have no idea, Necro is exact reverse whatever you assume he is. You're welcome.

04/25/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Froststorm
The fact that his skeletons only do 50% weapon damage compared to the WDs zombie dogs doing 120%


Skeletons hit a target at the same time, via Command Skeleton:
50%*7 = 350% weapon damage at the initial hit to a focused target. Unless you're a great fan of Stand Alone passive (use Devour-Ruthless or CS-Kill Command, easy) you'd want them to stick around and keep smacking away.

Zombie Dogs scatter and bodyblock 3 different targets:
120%*3 = 360% weapon damage to different targets overall once they engage and hit once. 5 dogs and it still means different targets. Dogs are only there to be a tank, or Sacrifice'd.

Difference is WD's Dogs require Sacrifice to deal proper damage spikes, while Necromancer's Skeletons are a whole pack on their own.

04/25/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Froststorm
more numerous but weaker pets


Skeletons max 7, Zombie Dogs max is 3. For reaching 5-6 Zombie Dogs, WD have to equip 3 dedicated passive abilities. Even if so, WD still lacks the ability to focus down a single target like Necromancer do. WD pet damage will be always scattered, while Necromancer can focus and intensify it at will.

When looked upon items for both aspects for becoming a pet build, WD obviously have way better choices rather than becoming a pet doc. ZD damage is actually pathetic and only can be focused through the usage of Sacrifice. That means you have to use low-end equipment just to improve Sacrifice and ZD spawn rate instead of your own pets' damage, or cater to Gargantuan for having a reliable source of damage dealer.

You proved my point pretty well actually so thank you for the break down. Single target damage is only an issue when it comes to bosses which are generally alone anyway and for bosses with adds, the witch doctor can take down large groups much faster than the necro. So in a single target situation the WD wins whether it be with 3 dogs or 5 dogs and atleast the witch doctor has the option to increase the total amount where the necromancer is much more limited in that regard.

As for trash packs, it is actually better for pets to spread out and gain aggro to keep enemies off of you, and trash mobs are so weak anyway that having 7 summons on one enemy would be a waste, the skeletons simply have to have that mechanic because their dps is so low. So in both cases the witch doctors pets are much more powerful and much more customizable.

04/25/2018 01:35 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Necro pet build is viable(see leaderboards to get more info) but is different than WD. Is much more "active", in therms of damage per second, necro is not worse than WD but you need to constant re-summon Mages, constant revive, constant command skeletons, constant command golems...

Overall, i liked the blood skills IMHO fit better necromancer fantasy of master of life and death than poison but disliked that :
- Revives only last 15 sec, even 180 sec duration on D2 was too low.
- No bone wall/bone prison

Other think that i don't like is that even your minions scale only with weapon. I hate that everything in D3 is %WD and you can't improve on anything by your own, only wear different gear... But other classes have the same problem. More big, sharp and heavy your axe is, more damage your zombie dog will deal.

Skeletons hit a target at the same time, via Command Skeleton:
50%*7 = 350% weapon damage at the initial hit to a focused target. Unless you're a great fan of Stand Alone passive (use Devour-Ruthless or CS-Kill Command, easy) you'd want them to stick around and keep smacking away.

Zombie Dogs scatter and bodyblock 3 different targets:
120%*3 = 360% weapon damage to different targets overall once they engage and hit once. 5 dogs and it still means different targets. Dogs are only there to be a tank, or Sacrifice'd.


Also you can command skeleton


And I am not doubting the necromancer is viable, Blizzard does a good job to make sure all diablo classes are very strong. However there isn't really a such thing as a Necromancer pet build. The skeletons and Golem are kind of just for show as they don't scale very well with the Necro and temporary summons are just active spells, not really pets. So overall the necromancer seems like a decent wizard but as far as pet classes go, a monk or even a barb would probably be a more fun choice
04/25/2018 01:52 PMPosted by Zeddicuus
If you like the idea of having a new class and new legendary/set pieces to tinker around with builds, enjoy the current game content, but don't mind that the necromancer is similar only in name to the class of D2, you will probably have fun with this new class.

If you are expecting this to play the exact same way as the D2 necro, are expecting this to magically fix issues with build diversity/balance or add tons of new content, you will be disappointed.


The Necro seems to be the only class with poor build diversity from what I have seen, but I agree that expecting the D2 necromancer would be a mistake. I would be happy with even a solid Golem centric build or something of the sort but the Necro just doesn't have any real legendaries or gear bonuses to cater to that. Even the Barbarian has a set focused around permanent summons which makes it even more crazy to me that the Necro doesn't
You proved my point pretty well actually so thank you for the break down.


*shrug*

Are you aware that WD can clear crowds by "casting" massive area spells while Zombie Dogs tank and block aggro, right? ZDs ain't killing anything alone, nor capable of hurting large crowds unless you have Sacrifice or have dedicated passives. Spread 120% weapon damage is still 120% weapon damage per target. Their aggro always scattered among the battle field and sometimes get outnumbered.

Skeletons at this case is an actually direct damage with Command Skeletons embed in itself. Take a look at builds, Jesseth and Bone Ringer have much more potential to deal direct damage than any of WD's Dog spawn related legendaries.
04/25/2018 02:07 PMPosted by naksiloth
You proved my point pretty well actually so thank you for the break down.


*shrug*

Are you aware that WD can clear crowds by "casting" massive area spells while Zombie Dogs tank and block aggro, right? ZDs ain't killing anything alone, nor capable of hurting large crowds unless you have Sacrifice. They're always scattered among the battle field and sometimes get outnumbered.

Skeletons at this case is an actually more direct damage with Command Skeletons embed in itself. Take a look at builds, Jesseth and Bone Ringer have much more potential to deal direct damage than any of WD's Dog spawn related legendaries.

Oh I have no doubt that the Necromancer is a phenomenal direct damage dealer. However he is pidgeon holed while most other classes are much more free. As a WD my zombie dogs, gargantuan, and fetishes can clear trash, and bosses all day long without me getting touched.

The necro simply doesn't have that. With their lower overall damage and less spread, skeletons are generally less effective. The golem also isn't as powerful as the garg. On top of that, except for Jesseth, the Necro doesn't have any real set options for pets and Jesseth is pretty lack luster. And don't even get me started on his legendaries.

Over all as a direct damage class the Necro is great, I just think they should have marketed him as something else because he isn't much of a Necromancer when he is one of the weakest overall summoners in the game
04/25/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Froststorm
And don't even get me started on his legendaries.


I get that you never heard of Bone Ringer exploit back then. Missed opportunity.
04/25/2018 02:19 PMPosted by naksiloth
04/25/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Froststorm
And don't even get me started on his legendaries.


I get that you never heard of Bone Ringer exploit back then. Missed opportunity.

I generally don't consider exploits a class feature. Maybe in the future if the Necro goes on sale again I will pick him up and see if I can't make some sort of golem build or something to make decent use of his pets. But until he gets a set that lets him have a revive pet as a permanent summon or increases his skeleton damage I can't foresee paying $15 dollars to use him as a subpar pet class.
04/25/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Froststorm
And I am not doubting the necromancer is viable, Blizzard does a good job to make sure all diablo classes are very strong. However there isn't really a such thing as a Necromancer pet build. The skeletons and Golem are kind of just for show as they don't scale very well with the Necro and temporary summons are just active spells, not really pets. So overall the necromancer seems like a decent wizard but as far as pet classes go, a monk or even a barb would probably be a more fun choice


Well, IMHO Revives should last longer, skeleton mages should be permanent but you should need to command then.
OP, who hasn't actually played the necro,
asks question about necro,
get's answers, from people that have actually played the necro
but, they are all wrong.

OP already has all the answers.
nah uh! neKro aint garbo!
Might as well pay $15 and try it out. So far every dollar I spent on this franchise is money well spent because i play them for hundreds of hour, comparing to Far cry 5 which I paid $60 and got bored after 6 hr...
I got the Necro for the extra stash tab and two character slots. Personally I want to like it but I find the toon to be somewhat disappointing given the long cool downs and running around and not die.
I can't deny the facts though:
- Necro is a fun class that feels unique enough from the other classes to belong
- Necro does not live up to the D2 iteration but we all knew it couldn't.
- Rathma Skeleton Mage build is a huge glass cannon with absurd damage output and plenty of skeletons...it best fulfills the fantasy of the character while being somewhat competitive.
- Inarius build can maintain 100% run speed at all times and is a lot of fun but limited to lower difficulties only (amazing solo rifter or solo bounties). By far my favorite Necro build.
- Easily provided over 20 hours of fun so you could argue the price was worth it for the play time

You might say that I recommend it and that's somewhat true...but keep in mind this is DLC. Which means the asking price for the content provided is way off. Blizzard probably charged 2x to 3x more than they should have when you consider what we got for the base game and expansion packs by comparison.

It's a lot of added replay value so judge for yourself if that'll be worth it.

I don't consider Necro my favorite Diablo 3 class by the way but opinions on that likely vary quite a bit. I'm partial to Monk, DH and Wizard for what its worth.
As another said, I bought it for the stash tabs. I liked the Inarius build until they nerfed it. I can't stand any of it's current meta builds as they either require a ton of button mashing or gimmicky cooldown waiting.

I might rarely dust it off and do some lazynecro farming but that's about it.
Necro purchase is definitely worth it ...

$14.99 gets you 2 stash tabs and 2 additional toon slots....

on top of the slot / tabs, it's at least 30 hours of a new toon class.

not sure if I would play it anymore, but for what they are asking right now, $14.99, well, go for it. I would in OP's shoes.

edit: I play mostly witch doctor, and this toon is too similiar to wd, int. class n all...the best thing it has is that you can 'command' the skeletons which is something I wish I could do with wd dudes.

you also must have already purchased RoS in order to purchase the url linked necro.

https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/diablo-iii-rise-of-the-necromancer#techspecs

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