Should Diablo get his RPG elements back?

General Discussion
Blizzard decision to """simplify""" RPG elements trying to appeal to more masses ruined WoW and D3. In WoW they removed skill trees and other things that are on the game for years to try appeal to masses and gain subscribes and in the same time, they removed RPG elements from D3. Here is a old new about Bliz defending it (
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-08-blizzards-street-defends-wow-talents-revamp )

Now, Both WoW and Diablo barely have any character progression. In fact, the character progression and customization. A Firewall spell of D2, more you invest, more damage and radius it will have. A skeleton, more you invest on it, more skeletons and more powerful they will gnna be. On D3, how it works

- A apprentice necro after learning how to raise skeletons can raise 7 skeletons that scale by some unknown reason with weapon
- An master necro, after decades of training, study, killing the primal evils in his journey to maintain the balance and unlocking god-like powers can raise 7 skeletons that scale by some unknown reason with weapon

Only how big, sharp and heavy the axe is matters in therms of "spell power". Same for a monk's punches and kicks. Monk on D1 was a hard class to play on D1 - hellfire because balance his attributes is not easy not because you need to find a heavy and sharp axe to have strong punches and kickes...

And Blizzard had success on their "simplification"? No. Since Pandaria, they are losing subs on WoW. And after the Nostalrius shut down, they din't get many subs back. In fact, people who like RPG's will simple play move to other private servers or other MMORPG's that din't abandoned RPG elements. Don't get me wrong, play in private servers is not right. Piracy killed Troika games(my favorite developer), and there are ethic solutions aka search another game. It is more ethic and will reward developers who don't abandon RPG elements.

People who play RPG wanna immersion, character development and hard choices. If you remove it trying to appeal to non RPG players, you will end up with adventure games, not RPG games. Look to Dragon Age. Since DA2 they abandoned most RPG elements and adopted "weapon damage skills" and now... Remove it from RPG games is like remove recoil, windage and bullet drop in a FPS game only because casual players can't deal with it.

Diablo 3 now have an """character customization""" that is worse than FPS games.
Massive downvotes and no arguments about why the actual "fps like" system is good. What is the next? Remove strategy from RTS?
L0rdV1ct0r post.

*clicks down vote*
What RPG elements? elle-oh-elle!
D3's core can not be changed, what can you add there? It's an Action-RPG without RP. D2 was a hack'n slash with RP and D1 was a dungeon crawler with RP. D3 way too diverted from its main objective to hit the target. If they want this game to see another 10 years they have to do some tweaks at the some core systems. Player expects some more interaction and free space from a game at '18.

04/27/2018 10:50 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Same for a monk's punches and kicks.


https://oskarpannier.com/en/comics/detail/moenche-und-waffen/
Obligatory
04/27/2018 11:11 AMPosted by DonMartin
L0rdV1ct0r post.

*clicks down vote*


You know, you can simple "mark" ignore me...

Otherwise i changed my mind. How dare people wanna RPG elements into a RPG game? This is solo by nostalgia!!!! I love having a friend in my game who can fire all day and not kill the enemy because he don't have completed a set, love how i can change my character like i can change on CoD and how inflated the damage is /sarcasm

D3's core can not be changed, what can you add there? It's an Action-RPG without RP. D2 was a hack'n slash with RP and D1 was a dungeon crawler with RP. D3 way too diverted from its main objective to hit the target. If they want this game to see another 10 years they have to do some tweaks at the some core systems. Player expects some more interaction and free space from a game at '18.


You are right. But i was talking about RP mechanics in general.
04/27/2018 11:15 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
You are right. But i was talking about RP mechanics in general.


Dude, I know we discussed this but after this point they can not change main systems, yet as I hope they could change how they interact with each other. Skill system and item system need more interaction between each other, that's for sure. A self-sustained loothunt can't be made as long as there's a huge powergap between gear qualities. Scrapped Talisman and Jewels could be added for smaller item chase. Some scrapped ideas can be salvaged and implemented without disturbing the game's current playerbase.

That's what I could think of, but none of these could help this game to become an RPG at all. What this game needs is a new expansion, and possibly we won't see that. Not this Blizzcon, neither at the next. I'd really like that one Community Manager to appear and call me "REKT" but it won't happen either.
04/27/2018 11:09 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Massive downvotes and no arguments about why the actual "fps like" system is good. What is the next? Remove strategy from RTS?


massive downvotes yep all 6 of them..... now 7. that is pretty massive.
04/27/2018 11:28 AMPosted by naksiloth
04/27/2018 11:15 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
You are right. But i was talking about RP mechanics in general.


Dude, I know we discussed this but after this point they can not change main systems, yet as I hope they could change how they interact with each other. Skill system and item system need more interaction between each other, that's for sure. A self-sustained loothunt can't be made as long as there's a huge powergap between gear qualities. Scrapped Talisman and Jewels could be added for smaller item chase. Some scrapped ideas can be salvaged and implemented without disturbing the game's current playerbase.

That's what I could think of, but none of these could help this game to become an RPG at all. What this game needs is a new expansion, and possibly we won't see that. Not this Blizzcon, neither at the next. I'd really like that one Community Manager to appear and call me "REKT" but it won't happen either.


Blizzard don't make a Vanilla WoW server despite losing millions of subs to other MMO's like EQ(din't abandoned RPG elements) and private servers, i really expect that they will write the progression and re balance d3? Obvious NO. An vanilla wow server for then is much more easier than my suggestion. I only like read butthurt of console peasants who never played a single true RPG in their lives...
Dude! What are you smoking?
I don't know if you know this or not, but a game doesn't need to have assignable attribute points and a skill tree to be an rpg. In fact, the majority of rpgs don't have these things
04/27/2018 11:54 AMPosted by PreciousRoy
I don't know if you know this or not, but a game doesn't need to have assignable attribute points and a skill tree to be an rpg. In fact, the majority of rpgs don't have these things


But need character progression and customization. Only one question. Is GoW an RPG for you? In fact there are more customization and progression in GoW than in D3.... Seriously. If every game that you play a character is an RPG, even God of War is a RPG. And no, the majority of RPG's have attributes and skill levels.

Attributes are vital to represent how your character is in relation to the world. For example, in DnD the average attribute for the average human is 10. If you have 6 STR, you are very weak and if have 18 STR you are insanely strong. More than 20 you are a super human. In fact a Tyrannossaurus Rex on DnD have 25 STR ( http://www.aidedd.org/dnd/monstres.php?vo=tyrannosaurus-rex )

Name one RPG that more sharp and heavy your weapon is, more cold your cold spells will be and more strong your punches/kicks will be. Only one.
04/27/2018 11:54 AMPosted by PreciousRoy
In fact, the majority of rpgs don't have these things


I wouldn't talk so sure. Tabletop RPGs are RPG too, like DnD and many more sub-realms.
I don't know if you know this or not, but a game doesn't need to have assignable attribute points and a skill tree to be an rpg. In fact, the majority of rpgs don't have these things
What is up with these 3 or 4 posters creating non stop threads about D2 vs D3, comparing, criticizing, linking worthless YouTube content?

All these “ ‘memberries” should be posted on D2 forums.

As for the topic, I don’t know why you are still beating the dead horse, it’s not like D3 will get reworked from ground up to make it different. It’s an action hack and slash, not like it was any different at any point in time and you wanna go back to it, you are asking for D2 instead of D3. Play D2 if you think it’s better and more fun for you.

I think quite a few players are pretty content with current game stats. Sure, there is a long list of QoL things we would all love, there is a need for minor balancing and opening up game on few things, but all these D2> D3, “let’s make D3 more RPG” (its an action rpg by definition, if you wanna play true rpg you need to go back to Black Isle games, and if you wanna play MMORPG there is quite a few on the market) and “we need X,Y, Z here to bring D3 back” are just annoying as fvck. Game is where it is, and aside of some QoL, char pack, cosmetics (even via in game shop and micro transactions) and balancing here and there it’s not gonna change. You had plenty of time to leave it, or go back to WoW it D2 if you don’t like it.

People, stop this nonsense. It’s a video game and you are acting like developers abused your couch pet in real life. Stop trying to fix something that isn’t broken, core of the game will not change.
If I wanted to play an RPG I'd go play something from the Witcher series. That is not the experience I get or want from D3.

I also don't want D3 (or D4) to become D1 and D2, if you want to play those go right ahead. If Blizz makes a remastered D2 Ala StarCraft cool, but I won't play it as much as D3.
04/27/2018 12:06 PMPosted by S4v4G3
All these “ ‘memberries” should be posted on D2 forums.


There are no D2 forum, only classic games forum

04/27/2018 12:06 PMPosted by S4v4G3
it’s not like D3 will get reworked from ground up to make it different.


Truth; look Bliz to WoW. They rather lose milions of subs than bring RPG elements back or create an vanilla server. WoW and Diablo will be dead soon.

04/27/2018 12:06 PMPosted by S4v4G3
but all these D2> D3, “let’s make D3 more RPG” (its an action rpg by definition,


Name one, just a single one RPG element on D3.

Also, Diablo is just one more franchise dead by "lets remove RPG elements from a RPG game". Dragon Age died on 2, Gothic died on IV, nwn1 and 2 was epic and become a generic mmo...

What is the next? Developers will try remove strategy from RTS games????????
While I don't fully agree with the things they did with Diablo 3 (I think I've made that clear in a few threads), I've long ago realized that the current foundation of the game is how it's going to be with minor tweaks and (hopefully) some balancing. I faced two options: Continue playing the game as-is or drop it and move on to something else. The things you don't like are too deeply ingrained into the game to make such drastic changes. Some of the things I don't like are too far ingrained for the game to change. However I feel about it won't change those facts.

I, for one, enjoy the game despite its many flaws. I may not agree with some of their choices they made in development (or potential development), but overall I still enjoy the game for what it is. I continue to play it off and on and will most likely do so for quite some time to come. If I didn't enjoy the game as it is, I'd have dropped it and moved on to the next game. Of course, since I still enjoy the game, I will speak against things I see as detrimental to the game that are within reason to be adjusted/changed/ not implemented if it's an incoming change.

So, given your strong convictions for D3, you are at a path with 2 forks: One is to leave the game and hope they've learned their lessons for a potential Diablo 4. The other option is to accept the major flaws as they are and speak your mind if they try to change anything that is further detrimental to a game you might still enjoy playing despite the warts.
04/27/2018 12:31 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
What is the next? Developers will try remove strategy from RTS games????????


I'm pretty sure these called "simulations". You remove a core element from a well-known genre, add in horrible controls then sell it as "simulation". Well known trick in the industry.

Do I think D3 is a simulation? Nope, I don't think it has horrible controls to begin with. If the day comes where it requires us to imitate "Drunken Fist" technique of a Monk with XBox Kinect then we'll know.

Name one, just a single one RPG element on D3.


You pick a class. Checkmate.

There are no D2 forum, only classic games forum


I think it requires a legit cd-key to join in. Do you have D2 installed now or not? I appreciate this sorta threads that criticize D3, but you can't make D3 into something else "anymore". Anything you try to "go retro" would make this game into a horrible simulation beyond repair. I don't think you grasp it or just like to troll these forums.
04/27/2018 12:31 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Name one, just a single one RPG element on D3.


health and damage being displayed as numerical values, towns with npcs and shops, attributes like strength and dexterity (just because you don't assign them yourself doesn't make it not an RPG, again, most RPGs don't make you assign them yourself).

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