Diablo III Skill System Sucks

General Discussion
The rune system for skills in Diablo 3 is just so bad.

Why does Chain Lightning have a rune that enables it to do fire damage? Why would a skill named "Electrocute" ever do any damage other than lightning? If they wanted to make the rune system interesting they would build on this premise rather than completely change the ability so that it's basically a placeholder. Likewise, why would a skill named Shock Pulse ever do any damage other than lightning?

The Wizard doesn't have a single low level ability that does Fire damage. The first skill that does Fire damage is Hydra, which you get at level 21. How is this good design? The earliest fire-based skill that the Wizard gets is a Rune variant of "Charged Bolts" at level 18, which is already useless because Charged Bolts was never meant to be a high level ability in Diablo 2 or Diablo 3.

Where is the build options? You're basically pigeon holed the entire game into whatever the strongest element is at your level. Gear doesn't change this until you get to the late game (takes maybe 2 days) at which point it goes the opposite direction and pigeon holes you into the element that has the gear to back it up. There is absolutely no options, at any point in the game, unless you want to make things far more difficult than they need to be (and the game is already a snooze-fest at high difficulties).

In Diablo 2 you could start out right away with your choice between Ice Bolt, Charged Bolt, or Fire Bolt. That's 3x as many options as Diablo 2. Then you got to choose whether you wanted to further specialize into those elements and they were all viable so long as you actually specialized into them intelligently.

The only argument against these "choices" is the fact that Diablo 2 had monster element immunity affixes, which made you have to diversify your build. How is this any different than Diablo 3's affixes? You're forced into defensive play styles because of the gear-check affixes that deal damage without any ability to be evaded such as Plague Pools, Jailer, Frozen (the orbs do significant damage before they explode), leaping monsters (way too many), etc. etc. How is this any different? They've literally just changed it so that instead of being able to choose how you diversify your build you're pigeon holed into 1 or 2 viable options. I consider "viable" in Diablo 3 to be anything that works above Torment 80, which is basically the difficulty equivalent of "Hell" in Diablo 2. Anything below that is just as easy as a level 80 Diablo 2 character doing Nightmare difficulty.

Lots of thoughts here but I've been playing Diablo 2 recently and I don't know how they lost so much of what was to be learned. Why are they including abilities that even in Diablo 2 were just placeholders for higher level abilities? Why are they including runes that are basically "select your element" variations when elements are entirely meaningless. Why are there so few options for the elements that you're able to take advantage of (aside from elements being meaningless). Why did they even include elements at all? Just over homogenizing things for the same of over simplicity, did nothing but take away from the game.

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In Diablo 2, I found an Amulet for my Necromancer that increased cast-rate by 10%. The design of the game is so good that I was actually able to use this Amulet all the way to the next difficulty without needing to improve it. It didn't inhibit my character's progression. In fact, my 2 rings and amulet are all from like level 5. In Diablo 3 that would be absolutely impossible to have these items be this useful for that long (unless you've already completed the game). How did you miss so much, Blizzard? Like how is the design so bad when you had Diablo 2 to learn from? All that had to be done was improve minor problems.
Prepare for a lot of butthurt.

People here think that if you like an more RPG-Like progression on skill power instead of "everything scale with weapon" and more big, sharp and heavy your axe is, more strong punches, frost beams and skeletons you can have, is only by nostalgia.

The changes to %WD and rune system killed the fantasy of "master of elements" that Wizard should represents.

EDIT : About immunity, IMHO the solution is simple give dual damaging skills and make immunity less frequent. On D2 there are birds immune to Lightning. If a Molten Boulder deals physical + fire damage, why a meteor deals only fire damage?
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!


You can't actually give me a number on the amount of people who currently play/like the game, so your claims mean less than actual objective rational. There are probably as many people playing Diablo 2 right now as Diablo 3.

I am playing Diablo 2. But for a game to start from this and turn into Diablo 3 is objectively bad. If Diablo 3 were a standalone game sure but to claim to be the third installment is just absolute rubbish.

On D2 there are birds immune to Lightning. If a Molten Boulder deals physical + fire damage, why a meteor deals only fire damage?


People already "fish" for good Greater Rifts because some are just garbage. It's the same thing arguably worse. In Diablo 3 they make absolutely no attempt to be intelligent about the circumstances of a run, and literally delegate any difficult decision to RNG (including affixes on items) They have some cookie-cutter pool of effects and they literally roll a dice to see what's going to be on any given item, all the way through.

I'm getting the sense that the vast majority of people who "like" the game would say they pretty much "like" everything. It's more a question of standards than a question of quality.
ya agreed on the rifts... they r terrible... design to density everything just sucks bad... but u actually begin playing at lv70 and u begin with ALL the options available...
why post to the forum if you think it is bad? it's been out a very, very long time, and everyone here is totally used to it (or they wouldn't be playing or viewing the forum).

everyone has already long ago thought about all that you brought up; it's very, very old news. Hey thanks for bringing it up for the millionth time, gosh it sure worked this time!

It is not D2 definitely, but !@#$%ing about it doesn't do anything other than point out who is foolish. D2 was a different time, the designers/programmers were superior, and they wouldn't call out other Diablo devs by saying about Brevik "F that loser"....

...everyone gets that....

assuming all of that, D3 is what it is; as of right now, it's in a good spot compared to all other arpgs out there. IF that's not the way you feel, adios! They all have issues and there isn't anything exactly matching what D2 brought us, but gameplay of D3 beats everything right now on current PC systems, imo. Could go into about how everyone thinks that D2 was this 'god-like perfect game' but really wasn't but I won't go there. Yes, I had 2 toons to level 90, back in the day, btw...

around the end of 2012 this post would make sense (along with the other 20,000 posts spouting similiar info), but it doesn't now at all.

ENOUGH!
It's to hard for blizzard (north could have not south)
A lot of things in D3 suck. Skills are just one problem. The bad part is that the Devs that designed the skill system and the skills think they did a superb job lol.

99.9% of the people that would agree that D3 is a big letdown have long left the game and the forums.

There are people like me that can't help it but to hope that D4 will bring a real successor to D2. This is why people like me "play the forums" at least, trying to swim against the current of "Noobsauce" flowing my way.

Noobs and casuals have invaded and destroyed the franchise by making Blizzard believe they did a superb job with D3. Those noobs and "casuals" that play the forum more than the game, are defending D3 24/7. I don't know if most of them are just trolling or if they actually believe what they say.

RIP Diablo 2012
Hey, OP, if you think the game is a snooze fest at higher GR levels, then just take off the set that pigeonholes you into a few skills and an element. Put on the gear you want, use the skills you want, with the element you want.

When you get the the edge of the envelope with that character, you will be anything but asleep.

I finished Guardian on 4 accounts this Season so far. I don't see any reason to keep going with those characters because it is just more of the same, with no real goal in sight.

So I rolled up a Necromancer, I'm using mostly crafted gear, the skills I like, and I'm playing at T4. I've found I can get up to about T8-10 before the Necro sux, but at the levels I have designed the build for, it's great fun.

The game is what you make it.
ok mr stone i think we had enough of ur 4 guardian fairy tale... ya we get it u have a lot of money ok... now just tone it down a little...
04/30/2018 06:25 PMPosted by steve
Where is the build options?

I partially agree with OP, however the lack of (endgame) build diversity is not because of the rune system, but because of massively overpowered sets and legendaries that basically funnel everyone into the same default builds.

04/30/2018 06:25 PMPosted by steve
Why are they including abilities that even in Diablo 2 were just placeholders for higher level abilities?

At first D3 was not planned to have these OP endgame sets and legendaries, many of which often make cooldowns and resource costs redundant, which allows you to spam skills that otherwise required resource or time management (cooldowns).

The idea was that skills like Charged Bolts, Electrocute, Bash and other primary skills were meant to either generate resource or to give you a way to deal damage while your resource is empty and your skills are on cooldown...

...but since they have basically gotten rid of resource and time management in many cases and allowing these powerful skills to be spammed, primary skills have gotten more and more useless.

If they wouldn't have gone in that direction, primary skills would have been much more useful and honestly I would have liked that...

04/30/2018 06:25 PMPosted by steve
Why are they including runes that are basically "select your element" variations when elements are entirely meaningless.

It wasn't like that in vanilla.

Most skills for physical classes did not have elemental variations on their rune effects. The runes on these classes mostly only changed the effect of the skill, but kept the damage physical, but that changed with RoS where they gave every rune a different elemental effect.

And even many caster skills did only have one element, like all the runes on Arcane Orb did arcane damage and just had different effects, same for Meteor where every rune did fire damage.

04/30/2018 06:25 PMPosted by steve
Why are there so few options for the elements that you're able to take advantage of (aside from elements being meaningless). Why did they even include elements at all? Just over homogenizing things for the same of over simplicity, did nothing but take away from the game.

Yeah, I also think it would have been cool if elemental effects wouldn't just be slightly different variations of the same thing.

It would have been very amazing if they had implemented what they were teasing during the D3 vanilla beta, were every element had a secondary effect - frost slowed enemies, fire ignited enemies, lightning had a chance to stun etc - so that elemental effects would have much more individual character.
04/30/2018 08:35 PMPosted by NightRaven
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!


What a D3-defending post. What a great way to add-context and reasoning to why you think D3's is so great...just go tell someone to play something else...instead of...contributing to the discussion.

"I like D3...u don't...go play somethin else..." unfortunately is the mindset of way too many say 2013 and after forum-ppl here after most the D1 n D2-minded ppl left D3.
05/01/2018 02:58 AMPosted by Thorodan
04/30/2018 08:35 PMPosted by NightRaven
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!


What a D3-defending post. What a great way to add-context and reasoning to why you think D3's is so great...just go tell someone to play something else...instead of...contributing to the discussion.

"I like D3...u don't...go play somethin else..." unfortunately is the mindset of way too many say 2013 and after forum-ppl here after most the D1 n D2-minded ppl left D3.


What point exactly are you trying to make?

Those who like D3, defend it, because get this, they like it. Those that thought it would be a clone of D2 and still moan about the fact that it's not still complain about that five years later. Logically, they get told to play something they might enjoy even more, perhaps D2.

Some of those who could not somehow accept the fact that it's not a clone of D2 left the game and the forums. Again, that makes sense. They accepted that Blizzard was not going to scrap the game, or re-code it based on their disappointment.

When you don't like Pizza, you either order something else on their menu, or go someplace else to eat. You don't sit in the Pizzeria and complain how in the past it was an Italian restaurant with a full menu that you loved. You also don't insult the customers that came there for Pizza explaining how they are less refined for enjoying it. If a customer who is offended by your whining tells you eat somewhere else, they're not being rude, you are.

This is a game, you play to have fun. When the fun is done, you leave.
05/01/2018 02:58 AMPosted by Thorodan
04/30/2018 08:35 PMPosted by NightRaven
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!


What a D3-defending post. What a great way to add-context and reasoning to why you think D3's is so great...just go tell someone to play something else...instead of...contributing to the discussion.

"I like D3...u don't...go play somethin else..." unfortunately is the mindset of way too many say 2013 and after forum-ppl here after most the D1 n D2-minded ppl left D3.


Something that all players need to understand is that blizzard is a for profit business. They do not concern themselves with the beliefs of a single player. Diablo 3 is designed to attract the largest amount of players and purchases and blizzard tracks that data. The choices they make have nothing to do with blizzard north or south, their choices are completely revenue driven.

Every choice they make with this game is because it brings in more revenue or because it is most cost effective.
05/01/2018 05:24 AMPosted by Griff
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What a D3-defending post. What a great way to add-context and reasoning to why you think D3's is so great...just go tell someone to play something else...instead of...contributing to the discussion.

"I like D3...u don't...go play somethin else..." unfortunately is the mindset of way too many say 2013 and after forum-ppl here after most the D1 n D2-minded ppl left D3.


What point exactly are you trying to make?

[/quote]

The point appears to be, that "I like it the way it is" and "go play something else" does not in any way adress the issues the OP brought up that are very valid observations.

This is a forum and this thread is posted in "General Discussion". Unfortunately 90% of internet users seem to be entirely oblivious as to what the term "discussion" entails, i.e. scrutinizing the matter at hand.

However the real Diablo community has left this forum long ago so all that remains are rabid Blizzard fanboys and heaven help you if you dare to question their golden calf; they're gonna crucify you.

This is the most solid piece of evidence that this game is truly dead. When people simply stop caring. Well Blizzard did long ago.
04/30/2018 08:35 PMPosted by NightRaven
A lot of people like it the way it is, if you don't like it, play something else, too simple!


I would say that "tolerate" is more of a choice word than "like". Most of the people playing enjoy the game, and many would gladly accept improvements to the skill system.
D3 skill system rocks. It allows you to try and error other combination without feeling restricted or get lock down even if you were screwed up.

D2 tree skill is laughable. If I spent my 20 skill points max amplify damage, I guess I am screwed up because I don't have enough skill for the synergy. Without the extra 20 skills synergy, now my character take longer to kill stuffs at hell.

Blizzard: Okok, here is your respec feature.

D2 fanboys: But...but...I thought my choice mattered? How can you do that...

And for those who said that set items locking your character, even if you removed the set item, people will still go for BiS build to clear the GR. The only different is instead of clearing GR 130++, you guys stuck at GR LV60 or something. I guess you guys weren't there during the D3 classic where everyone wore the same BiS gear and skill set.
05/01/2018 07:21 AMPosted by Kilometer
And for those who said that set items locking your character, even if you removed the set item, people will still go for BiS build to clear the GR. The only different is instead of clearing GR 130++, you guys stuck at GR LV60 or something. I guess you guys weren't there during the D3 classic where everyone wore the same BiS gear and skill set.

The problem is not that best builds, best skills or BiS items exist.

That only becomes a problem when the best skills/builds/items are significantly stronger than more average skills/builds/items, which is the situation we have right now in D3 where builds that are supported by 6piece sets and their complementary legendaries are up to several hundred times stronger than most of the average (LoN) builds.

Same goes for items: there might be an optimal item for a build with which you can push a little higher in GR's, but if there is another item which is not as strong as the BiS GR push item, but which provides other beneficial bonuses, you might wanna use that one, because it suits your own playstyle better for example. Also not all players want to do high level GR's and a small loss in efficiency might be acceptable for them, as long as the loss in power is not too big.

For example the best builds may be builds that someone does not really like, but when his favorite build is not significantly weaker then the best builds, that player would be okay with playing his favorite build, even if it is not optimal. However, if the gap is too big, it would become frustrating because the best builds are so much more efficient than the players favorite build, which basically makes the best builds mandatory.
04/30/2018 07:02 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
If a Molten Boulder deals physical + fire damage, why a meteor deals only fire damage?


Molten Boulder is a huge rolling rock, it's the grandparent of Meteor. Meteor being a hot-headed little sh*t only deals damage with the impact blast radius, since its stone core is so small compared to a man-sized rock who is her grandparent. Read into the lore, man. You're lacking.

04/30/2018 06:25 PMPosted by steve
How is this any different than Diablo 3's affixes?


Most of the people who left here never played D2 at all. They just fiddled around for a few hours then went "I didn't like it". Else only started their RPG journey with D3 yet they claim exactly reverse. So... by starting a thread like this you'll probably get baseless claims and fallacies. I say, prepare for baseless hatred and jealousy from fanboys towards anything D1 and D2. I'll just open a bag of popcorn and sit here.

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