Endgame broken for multiplayer

General Discussion
I play games like Diablo 3 with people. In particular, of late I play with my wife. And that's the problem. For some reason, Diablo 3 SUCKS for multiplayer in the endgame, and it seems to be intentional. The item sets seem geared specifically and intentionally to break multiplayer. With x3, x5, x30 damage buffs based on specific sets and/or legendaries, one player will automatically vastly outpace the other relatively quickly during the endgame. And then it just feels pointless. That's not even talking about item sets that are explicitly counter to multiplayer, such as the Firebird set. To play that in endgame, you absolutely have to set an elite on fire and NOT KILL IT. Drag it around the map killing everything else. And if your ally, who is playing an action RPG specifically to kill demons, actually does so? Well, you're screwed. Then there are the gems, such as the Hoarder gem, that only drops money if YOU killed an enemy, in counter to literally everything else about the game that's shared between teammates. So if you want to go on a money run with someone? Good luck! Only one of you is getting any money: the one with that one extra legendary that gives them a massive damage buff that you don't have yet.

Yeah, I'm done with Diablo 3. Tried playing two seasons, and both sucked in the endgame. If you can't be chuffed to make a game that's actually fun for multiplayer, then stop billing this as a multiplayer game. Save people like me the wasted time!
I'm assuming end game means higher lvl content? There are classes that synergize better together than others. Try pushing higher greater rifts with them. Often times it does mean one player playing a support role. But you can go duo dps if both are equally geared.

You can also do T13 split bounties.

If you're talking about playing regular rifts, I personally don't consider that end game content.
Items are so easy to get in this game I don't know why you're having problems. The only argument I could see for multiplayer being broken is that it's obviously so much easier when playing as a party than solo, so the difficulty scaling is broken or the design of how classes work together or maybe the AI that corresponds to the benefits isn't well designed, but an argument like this:

To play that in endgame, you absolutely have to set an elite on fire and NOT KILL IT. Drag it around the map killing everything else. And if your ally, who is playing an action RPG specifically to kill demons, actually does so?


Just means you're not very familiar with how to play your character. You don't need to drag an elite around the map to get an insane amount of value out of Firebird's. The benefit only really comes though when you're comfortable enough to strictly hunt for Elites during very high GR levels. Before that the build in general isn't that fun or valuable (but that's because the design of the sets and items and skills in this game are really bad).
My wife and I still have plenty of fun. Sure, some builds don't work great together but plenty of other builds do.

We have a blast speed farming with chicken witch doctors or wiping out entire screens with multishot DH.
04/30/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Simianpower
in counter to literally everything else about the game that's shared between teammates. So if you want to go on a money run with someone? Good luck! Only one of you is getting any money: the one with that one extra legendary that gives them a massive damage buff that you don't have yet.


Money runs as you would look at them are really key runs done on T13. If you have any kind of decent endgame build both of you should destroy it even with both having Boon of the Hoarder gem. It is not like in some games where you have to have one that is all out dps or you won't clear the content. Just take two speed builds one for your wife and the other one for you. Then make sure to use Gold Wrap Belt, Avarice Band Ring, and Boon of the Hoarder for both builds on T13. Then just sit back and watch the gold pile in.
04/30/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Simianpower
I play with my wife. And that's the problem


Ouch. Don't let her read that.

Yes, Firebirds set could be so good, but it is still terrible. So much unfulfilled promise.

04/30/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Simianpower
So if you want to go on a money run


Vault run or wear avarice/hoarder gem.
I feel your pain OP, balance and build compability is a total lack in this game, and it's even worse if one got just a bit more time on their own hand than the other. It just seems like you always end in a situation where one is dragging the other.

It's so sad that proper balancing is so far off, that you have to down gear pr carefully plan which builds to match to be able to play together in a team, instead of just teaming up and go smash some demons together as a team.
He is right. On D2 you can be helpful even naked , on D3 you need to get specific set that boost your damage by 643737658748748764y52636542% in order to damage monsters with the health more inflated than Zimbabue currency. That means that a enemy that a high geared player can OHK, a not good geared character can fire all day and do no damage.

The level of gear dependency on this game, since every skill is %WD and damage and health is more inflated than zimbabue currency, means that unless both have almost the same gear, they can't have fun in same "team"
I don't play ROS. So could someone explain me the probability 2 high end players play the exact same greater rift level ?
Because in d2 there is only 1 level difficulty for high end. The way this game is designed goes beyond my imagination.
05/03/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Olbat
I don't play ROS. So could someone explain me the probability 2 high end players play the exact same greater rift level ?
Because in d2 there is only 1 level difficulty for high end. The way this game is designed goes beyond my imagination.


You don't join public games based on GR level it would be Torment level. The party members would then choose what GR difficulty to run at or look for another group running higher or lower content as needed. Most times people announce in various communities what GR level they are running and if looking for more players.
05/03/2018 11:40 AMPosted by GhostDragon
05/03/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Olbat
I don't play ROS. So could someone explain me the probability 2 high end players play the exact same greater rift level ?
Because in d2 there is only 1 level difficulty for high end. The way this game is designed goes beyond my imagination.


You don't join public games based on GR level it would be Torment level. The party members would then choose what GR difficulty to run at or look for another group running higher or lower content as needed. Most times people announce in various communities what GR level they are running and if looking for more players.


Yes I know this. Now what's the probability you can play with one of your friends.
05/03/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Olbat
I don't play ROS. So could someone explain me the probability 2 high end players play the exact same greater rift level ?
Because in d2 there is only 1 level difficulty for high end. The way this game is designed goes beyond my imagination.

About 1 in 100... Although statistically it will vary within the territory for which you define "end game".

But given that stat and affix ranges and build effectiveness varies as greatly as it does, it's just almost impossible.

I for one have never run the same GR level in groups as I do in solo.. Either it is lower and I'm dragging someone, or it is higher and I'm being dragged.
05/03/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Olbat
I don't play ROS. So could someone explain me the probability 2 high end players play the exact same greater rift level ?
Because in d2 there is only 1 level difficulty for high end. The way this game is designed goes beyond my imagination.


A fact you just admitted you are not playing RoS is equal to saying you don’t play Diablo 3 at all. RoS was an partially successful attempt to fix the game. Game literally begins after you hit 70 and start your journey in adventure mode.

To answer your quarry about possibility of 2 high end players doing same GR levels, it is a little bit curly, but I’ll try.

First, we need to define the term “high end players”. In season high end player definition keeps changing as the season goes, most of the higher end players will be 1000 paragon in less than a week, about 2000 and up paragon 5-6 weeks in, toward 3000 in last 2 weeks. In general anyone in 2500+ paragon area can be considered ”high end” in season. On non season anything below 2000 is low/casual, 2000-3000 is half way decent, 3000-4000 is dedicated, 4000+ is high end, but this is going towards 5000+ as of late.

Now, the end game oscillates around Greater Rifts and the benefits they give (gems, loot, xp), and there is 4-5 ways players approaching that.

1. They don’t care about efficiency and play solo at their peak performance

2. They are efficient solo players, always playing with full XP pool benefit, grinding on GR levels where they can close in less than 10 minutes

3. They play in random groups that are not optimized. Often it will be made up from 1 support (heal Monk always welcomed) and 3 random DPS classes using solo builds

4. They will participate in first meta setup, which is (in)famous Ratruns. Composition made from 3 Necromancers and one barb, barb and one Necro are support roles, 2 Necros are DPS. This is the most efficient seasonal progression composition, especially for players below 2000 paragon

5. They will participate in second meta composition, made from Monk, barb, Necromancer and Wizard (WD is a half way decent substitute in lower levels). This group also have 2 DPS and 2 support chars.

Now, likelihood of 2 high end players being in same GR level is really high, and simultaneously chances of low level players be in same GR level is high. Reason for it is, that vast majority of games is created via communities, clans and friend list. Naturally, hero capable of doing given level as wizard/Necro will broadcast and look for games within his bracket, and will be invited into such games, by players who are at same progression stage, more or less. What is a good part of it all is, that there is a low level entry barrier for low paragon players that can participate in high end game by playing support roles, if they are good at it. As example, I will be playing DPS in anything below GR125 on non season, but at the same time I will play as zbarb or zmonk in 130+ content, because I am a high end player for those who look for DPS in 100-120 range, while at the same time I’m on a lower end for players capable of 130+ since they are typically 4000+ paragon.

You can also find yourself in an akward situation, when you will be playing DPS class in group of higher paragon players, because they don’t have a group DPS builds or they simply like to get their 5 gems and keep pools, and it is not that uncommon, you can see a 3000 paragon barbs playing support for 2000 paragon DPS, or 3000 paragon monks doing the same.

Reality is, that likelihood of playing with players on same levels of progression/advancement is high.

This doesn’t hold true in public games, this is something that should be adjusted because public matchmaking in D3 is pretty flawed. We can not specify what range of GR we are looking for when we search for games, and this can result in completely mismatched powerwise composition (like paragon 800 jumping in the game with 2000+ paragon) and typically it may take a few tries till you will find a game that fits you. But, this it true for players who technically don’t care about progression much, if they would they’d look for games within communities and current meta compositions. When I’m in mood I carry GR 100’s in pubs, and I don’t really care who joins, I just ask them to change few things if necessary to have a better synergy, and simply play as their performance cannot really impact negatively my clear capacity.
05/03/2018 09:24 AMPosted by KiWeN
I feel your pain OP, balance and build compability is a total lack in this game, and it's even worse if one got just a bit more time on their own hand than the other. It just seems like you always end in a situation where one is dragging the other.

It's so sad that proper balancing is so far off, that you have to down gear pr carefully plan which builds to match to be able to play together in a team, instead of just teaming up and go smash some demons together as a team.


I respectfully disagree. After the power creep/balancing patch playing with friends using builds you like is relatively easy. Yes, you are funneled into few builds per class, but as long as you are on same power level (aka you are on same bracket paragon/augment wise) you can play on the levels you want, as long as it is realistic. Like for example I have no issues doing 100-110 in non meta composition, we just hop with friends on our DPS builds and have a blast, and it doesn’t matter that I’m running a Pestilence Necro or HoTA barb along the side of 2 saders or a Wizard. Is just that we are more or less on same power levels and we play builds that we know what they are capable of solo. If my barb, Necro and Sader are all 110++ capable, I don’t see why I cannot play 105’s with friends who have builds capable of 110 solo.
05/03/2018 12:05 PMPosted by S4v4G3

A fact you just admitted you are not playing RoS is equal to saying you don’t play Diablo 3 at all. RoS was an partially successful attempt to fix the game


Thank you for your detailed examples. It's still possible to play with a huge difference of in paragons level, to a certain extent. However, I think d2 offers a more straightforward way to play together. I know what they technically brought with ROS, and that they didn't fix anything artistically, rather made it worse.
04/30/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Simianpower
Yeah, I'm done with Diablo 3


cool! use the extra time to go back to school and figure out proper English with paragraphs that are readable.

do you think anyone, other than the crazies, read that giant paragraph?

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