M6 Multishot GR110+ New Build Guides

Demon Hunter
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06/18/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Silent
Physical UE Multishot is rank 1

https://i.imgur.com/Z4Z2L84.png = Asia
the build
https://i.imgur.com/R0kE2I7.png Physical UE Multishot

https://i.imgur.com/sr4RKlT.png = EU
the build
https://i.imgur.com/uQ0L57p.png N6N4 Fire

https://i.imgur.com/IkakhsY.png = US
the build
https://i.imgur.com/bH4B91w.png Physical UE Multishot


Paragon into account, the clear ceiling is pretty close between these builds. It'd be really helpful to see how far one of the UE6 greats can push M6. I think we'd all like to hear that feedback.
06/18/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Silent
Physical UE Multishot is rank 1

https://i.imgur.com/Z4Z2L84.png = Asia
the build
https://i.imgur.com/R0kE2I7.png Physical UE Multishot

https://i.imgur.com/sr4RKlT.png = EU
the build
https://i.imgur.com/uQ0L57p.png N6N4 Fire

https://i.imgur.com/IkakhsY.png = US
the build
https://i.imgur.com/bH4B91w.png Physical UE Multishot


Phys UE just pulled ahead yesterday on US servers, but all of this is not surprising. Look at it from an overall perspective.

Thousands of people have played, spoken about, and pushed UE and N6/M4. All top clears are paragon 4k+ with 130+ leg gems.

M6 MS had arguably only one person pushing (the build creator) all this time, and held a top position with only high 2k paragon and lower leg gems.

If this potion blast spec of dmkt's have been around and experimented with like the UE and N6/M4, there's no doubt that this would be top on all servers. How far ahead of the other builds it could be is yet to be determined, but I assume it won't be nearly as far ahead as the 100% chc FoK builds use to be seasons ago.
06/18/2018 11:10 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
06/18/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Silent
Physical UE Multishot is rank 1

https://i.imgur.com/Z4Z2L84.png = Asia
the build
https://i.imgur.com/R0kE2I7.png Physical UE Multishot

https://i.imgur.com/sr4RKlT.png = EU
the build
https://i.imgur.com/uQ0L57p.png N6N4 Fire

https://i.imgur.com/IkakhsY.png = US
the build
https://i.imgur.com/bH4B91w.png Physical UE Multishot


Phys UE just pulled ahead yesterday on US servers, but all of this is not surprising. Look at it from an overall perspective.

Thousands of people have played, spoken about, and pushed UE and N6/M4. All top clears are paragon 4k+ with 130+ leg gems.

M6 MS had arguably only one person pushing (the build creator) all this time, and held a top position with only high 2k paragon and lower leg gems.

If this potion blast spec of dmkt's have been around and experimented with like the UE and N6/M4, there's no doubt that this would be top on all servers. How far ahead of the other builds it could be is yet to be determined, but I assume it won't be nearly as far ahead as the 100% chc FoK builds use to be seasons ago.


if you look at the links i posted it shows who is rank 1 on all servers other than china from when the post was made not sure if its been took over not checked but from when i posted thats what was rank 1 with the build included to show you what was used
wudijo just posted this 118 clear with the potion-blast M6 build using MS Full Broadside. He included a link to this thread in the description.

https://youtu.be/YwhZik9syEU
06/19/2018 07:52 PMPosted by RedCell
wudijo just posted this 118 clear with the potion-blast M6 build using MS Full Broadside. He included a link to this thread in the description.

https://youtu.be/YwhZik9syEU


Well that was quick! Wudijo played the maps very well. I noticed a different technique in his sentry placement. I'm not sure if intentional. Some sentries are placed far away from the enemy pack. or along walls but facing in the direction of enemies.

I figure to place them on top of trash to apply Cull of the Weak and Bane of the Trapped, but i think he's maximizing the direction of sentry fire and the size of the cone so it hits more enemies. Maybe this is best? place 3-4 afar and 1-2 on top of the pack to enforce slow.

If you're reading this Wudi, thanks for the cautious build endorsement. The detonations and unique game play make it super fun. The 20-30 seconds you spend working the map, injuring yourself, and timing the potion pay off with a big and rewarding explosion. Well done on the clear.
So I did some comprehensive calculations on this and think my numbers match the reality pretty well.
TL;DR: The boost from using timed potion vs. normal gameplay is roughly 4 tiers. With a complete fix to the snapshotting, we should see our clears go down by ~7 tiers with timed potion or ~2 tiers if you just play the same build normally. Right now I would say that M6 Multi is roughly 1-2 tiers stronger than UE / N6M4 if played optimally.

M6 Phys Multi (normal potion)

Base dmg on CoE: 1 (Multishot over Sentry on quiver)
DH dmg per CoE Multi: 151 (6pc)
Sentry dmg per CoE Multi: 5 (4pc) x 5 (no. of Sentries) x 0.6 (Sentry targeting) = 15
MS per CoE: 11
Attack dmg per CoE: (151 + 15) x 11 = 1826

Avg. time between potions: 40sec
Avg. boost from potion: 15 (Sentry dmg) x 151 (6pc snapshot) x 0.5 (3/4 chance to pot outside of CoE) = 1132
Dmg per CoE from potion: 1132 x 16 / 40 (time factor) = 453

Combined dmg per CoE: 1826 (attacks) + 453 (potion boost) = 2279

Sentry vs. Multishot on quiver (normal potion):
DH dmg: 1661 (DH dmg) x 1.3 / 1.45 (missing Multishot roll) = 1489
Sentry dmg: 618 x 1.3 / 1.45 * 2 (quiver Sentry roll) = 1108
New combined dmg: 1489 + 1108 = 2597 (100% Sentry is better than 15% Multishot by around 1 tier)
Dmg gain: 2597 / 2279 = 1.14 -> 14%

Share of DH dmg: 1489 / 2597 = 57.33%
Share of Sentry dmg: 1108 / 2597 = 42.67%

M6 Phys Multi (timed potion)

Base dmg on CoE: 1 x 1.3 / 1.45 x 0.965 x 0.965 = 0.835 (missing one Multishot and two defensive rolls)
DH dmg per CoE Multi: 151 (6pc) x 0.835 = 126.1
Sentry dmg per CoE Multi: 5 (4pc) x 2.3 (Sentry rolls) x 5 (no. of Sentries) x 0.8 (Sentry targeting) x 0.835 = 38.41
MS per CoE: 8 (more time spent pulling)
Attack dmg per CoE: (126.1 + 38.41) x 8 = 1316

Avg. time between potions: 32sec
Avg. boost from potion: 38.41 (Sentry dmg) x 151 (6pc snapshot) = 5800
Dmg per CoE from potion: 5800 * 16 / 32 (time factor) = 2900

Combined dmg per CoE: 1316 (attacks) + 2900 (potion boost) = 4216
Share of DH dmg: 1009 / 4216 = 23.93%
Share of Sentry dmg: 3207 / 4216 = 76.07%

Additional guesstimate multipliers for timed potion gameplay:
Reduced Wolf uptime: 0.95 (Wolf only every 32sec)
Reduced slow uptime: 0.97 (Sentries not used for slow, activating Spider companion required for the nuke)
Less attacks outside of CoE: 0.98 (more pulling)
Sentry deployment delay: 0.95 (have to find the right spot first)
Failed / delayed potions: 0.9 (level switches, no damage taken, …)
RG struggle: 0.95 (hard to proc potion in most cases)
Reduced pylon effectiveness: 0.92 (only one CoE is really strong on power, no shield, …)
Reduced Vengeance effectiveness: 0.95 (only one CoE is really strong)
AD bonus: 1.5 (better grouping + nuke in one attack)
Ambush bonus: 1.15 (big burst goes over 75% threshold more often)
Increased Oculus value: 1.25 (easier to stand in for a second only)
Reduced Zei’s value: 0.85 (Oculus is usually quite close)
Total combined guesstimate multiplier: 1.175

Final combined timed potion dmg: 4216 x 1.175 = 4954

Normal potion dmg: 2597
Timed potion dmg: 4954
Difference: 4954 / 2597 = 1.91 => ~4 tiers (1.17 ^ 4 = 1.87)

Dmg with snapshot completely removed:
Normal potion: 2597 (total dmg) – 453 (potion boost) * 1.3 / 1.45 * 2 (quiver Sentry roll) = 1785 (>2 tiers lost)
Timed potion: 4954 (total dmg) – 2900 (potion boost) * 1.175 (guesstimate multiplier) = 1546 (>7 tiers lost with same playstyle)

Main parameters and sources of error:
- Sentry accuracy
- Ambush value
- AD value

Additional RNG considerations for timed potion gameplay:
- Power pylon can be a huge burst or nothing at all (crits, AD, ambush, Oculus, …)
- Certain RGs make it almost impossible to proc potion reliably
- Waller affix is more devastating than on normal build
- More reliant on map layout
- Less slow uptime makes it easier to group mobs and pull elites through the map

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, dmkt. I love the playstyle, the strategy behind sentry positioning, Vengeance use, potion timing, etc. all makes for an incredibly fun build, I hope Blizz sees that and won't fix it just like with N6M4. It's really some fresh air for the DH class and almost on point balance-wise.
I went through the calculations and estimates. There are several new parameters introduced -- some representing human error, some Sentry error (aims at the wrong target) and others are just luck based.

Every potion usage will produce different damage output -- pull the trigger one moment and you may get 50T damage. Clone that same situation and delay the potion activation by 0.5 seconds, so that ess of johan triggers a tighter pull and applies slow to more enemies, but only 4 sentries land their attack, and that number might become 90T. Do it a second later with only enough hated to fire one attack and the damage might be 45T.

We could probably have a lengthy discussion about every guestimate item on the list. The build has depth and it is super hard to quantify the averages.

More GR push data will tell us the true strength of the build and its variants. You set the bar pretty high. I push Fire(Cinder) and am personally finding GR117 to require near perfect execution and golden maps. Even returning back to GR116 with higher gem levels has still proven to be a challenge and this is because the maps on my record clear were godly. (probably to the point where N6M4 would have an equal chance at winning too).

For anyone concerned about the balance implications, when we predict build strength, and look at these numbers -- always remember the maps and enemies served are often a bigger performance factor than the build itself.
good posts

thanks for stopping by wudijo, nice clear also
dmkt, for one you are running with Endless Walk, which has *always* been and probably is forever going to be worse than FnR on DH. I also don't really see much of a point in using Cindercoat, it does virtually nothing for Vault since you can just run Tumble, and your hatred barely matters since you only nuke very little. If you endorse EW so much, I'd suggest to try equipping Unity, at least you get a juicy elite dmg roll there that should somewhat rival the fire damage and have perma Dark Heart + one defensive roll on top of it. It also allows you to run the physical rune, which might actually be a little stronger overall (and HFA is probably better than EoJ equipped like I had).

About the calculations, of course all these factors can vary a lot depending on the run and even split second actions (like Ess of Johan pulls you mentioned). The RNG swings a little more heavy here than most other builds because we don't have uniform dps, just 32sec bursts much like LoN FoK. So even in a perfect rift you might just always get walled or EoJ in the wrong moment and never have a chance to begin with. Same thing can happen on all other builds too just to a little smaller degree but in the end it will always average out.
Hey again! Cindercoat is desirable to me for a few reasons:

- There is a higher spender to generator ratio, i can build stricken faster on the RG, capitalizing on Yang's speed bonus. With ~70-80 seconds of stricken stacking a solo GR115 RG @ 50% life can die in one shot. Those rockets are incredible. The same applies to stray elites leftover after the trash is gone, less elite abandonment with Fire.
- More multishots more damage -- at least that's what Dieoxide says.
- I like to make sure my potion strikes land, i'm usually stationary, firing multishot at least 1-2 seconds before I trigger the potion. (we may be able to squeeze in an additional rocket strike, there might be an audible -- unconfirmed, but it feels this way and it only happens when you follow through with your MS firing). I personally have higher success doing this with Cindercoat because the resource depletion is slower. Also, i don't have to worry about the generator requirement with F&R, which can make your blast tardy in tight situations.
- The mobility is arguably better too, but only when NOT doing consecutive vaults.
- I run Endless Walk without Awareness -- when things get hairy, I get a small safety cushion from the mobility.
- Cindercoat's 20% extra fire damage is roughly 14% to everything, not just elites. which closes the gap a little.

As you suggested, a skilled player will get more damage out of F&R -- that's how the maths tell it. I am not that player, and hence i've adapted to use Endless Walk.

Several hundred paragon ago, i cleared GR112 with physical / ess of johan -- it's phenomenal for blowing up hearty trash (lacuni slashers and such) -- i'd get to the boss with an extra 30-45 seconds -- but I would find myself using 5-6 potions to kill the RG. There were a few GR114 pushes, where I met with the RG with 2:30 left on the timer, and I felt cheated because my 3rd potion only inflicted 8% damage. (WHAT? C'MON!?) That's why i switched back to Fire, i can knock a lone RG out in 3 potions, and possibly even 2 potions with a power pylon.

You have good success with physical, and a lot of prior experience working it with UE6. Some players I've talked to prefer it. Maybe your reflexes are quicker? You're able to vault, fire and hit a potion and deal big damage consistently -- for some reason I need to fire a few rounds. (running 90-110ms ping)

I will definitely try the Unity suggestion, maybe i'll be able to swim in those oculus rings to make up for fewer multishots? And you've inspired me to try pushing with F&R again. Thanks!
06/21/2018 02:17 PMPosted by dmkt
Hey again! Cindercoat is desirable to me for a few reasons:

- There is a higher spender to generator ratio, i can build stricken faster on the RG, capitalizing on Yang's speed bonus. With ~70-80 seconds of stricken stacking a solo GR115 RG @ 50% life can die in one shot. Those rockets are incredible. The same applies to stray elites leftover after the trash is gone, less elite abandonment with Fire.
- More multishots more damage -- at least that's what Dieoxide says.
- I like to make sure my potion strikes land, i'm usually stationary, firing multishot at least 1-2 seconds before I trigger the potion. (we may be able to squeeze in an additional rocket strike, there might be an audible -- unconfirmed, but it feels this way and it only happens when you follow through with your MS firing). I personally have higher success doing this with Cindercoat because the resource depletion is slower. Also, i don't have to worry about the generator requirement with F&R, which can make your blast tardy in tight situations.
- The mobility is arguably better too, but only when NOT doing consecutive vaults.
- I run Endless Walk without Awareness -- when things get hairy, I get a small safety cushion from the mobility.
- Cindercoat's 20% extra fire damage is roughly 14% to everything, not just elites. which closes the gap a little.


If I read his post correctly, I think he's saying that since a huge chunk of your damage comes from the potion blast rather than a constant rate of fire, you could manage without cindercoat and it may not be a big deal for you. The way it seems the build is being understood is that your MS's in between the blast is sorta fluff/pull until the blast happens, relatively speaking.

Could just be a matter of preference at this point though imo.
I think that is the case for Physical, it does enough damage to fully kill most enemies out the gate. Fire has a different distribution, it is weaker with trash and benefits greatly from stricken stacks on individual target, the small trash dies, the big trash remains, and you don't score progress until it dies. Some trash is so hearty it takes 2 blasts to clear it: Entombed, Thralls, etc. You either add to it, kill it off, or drag it. Many times, ill deplete the hatred to finish em off, or make the next strike more potent if it's worth sticking around.

With Physical you are abandoning small packs and lone elites if they cannot be merged with new trash.

In the highest GR pushes, most trash and elites gets dragged anyways, and that's why Physical really shines.

Wudi did select a Topaz for the helm socket which is near middle ground for RCR, which makes sense. but let's also not forget, the UE2 bonus is not present, neither is full time Vengeance Seethe. That's a crap load of hatred loss, and why he is not seeing much damage outside of the potion blast. The s/g ratio is like 6:1.

As a byproduct, this affects the vengeance overlap. I am pretty sure he is getting 40% every 74 sec at 18% CDR.

00 sec - potion blast w/ vengeance
32 sec - potion blast w/o
74 sec - potion blast w/ vengeance
106 sec - potion blast w/o

With diamond...

00 sec - potion blast w/ vengeance
32 sec - potion blast w/o
65 sec - potion blast w/ vengeance
97 sec - potion blast w/o

More blasts per grift, is the map play still doable without that Topaz, yes but it's harder to survive and travel and land pots.

Food for thought.
Not sure if the potion blast could also be abused with Shi Mizu (EW-set, RorG cubed) and paragon swapping.

In theory you could setup the pull with 20k Vit, get 100% crits on your nukes with max area damage + other extra stats (instead of crit chance) and maybe even drop WoC or Garwulf for something like Strongarms with knockback as secondary.
The main mistake of all unintentional players is that they do first, and only then think.
All that needed to be done was to send a report to the developers about the found bug.
But what did topic starter? He threw this, with a high degree of probability, incurable cancer just to take hype and think its ok.
Rip solo DH and clear builds.
Rise up abusers bugers and exploiters...
06/22/2018 05:12 AMPosted by Rudi1337
Not sure if the potion blast could also be abused with Shi Mizu (EW-set, RorG cubed) and paragon swapping.

In theory you could setup the pull with 20k Vit, get 100% crits on your nukes with max area damage + other extra stats (instead of crit chance) and maybe even drop WoC or Garwulf for something like Strongarms with knockback as secondary.


You'd gain 56% damage from raising crit chance to 100% alone. You'd also gain rolls on helm, rings, amulet, gauntlets, quiver. You could use them for damage range, ad or all resist, vit rolls, or cdr. How much mainstat to lose is TBD -- i don't know what survival would be like, but I'd want to be running around with 1.5M hp -- I never played a mizu build.

This is a broadside based build for sure, and might give the power to fully take out blue targets.

Enforcer instead of Sticken would give even bigger output in 2-man runs (DH + Necro).

It seems very challenging, but could be fruitful. I will go through my stash to see what i have available -- i think it's all there.
06/22/2018 05:37 AMPosted by Coltovsky
The main mistake of all unintentional players is that they do first, and only then think.
All that needed to be done was to send a report to the developers about the found bug.
But what did topic starter? He threw this, with a high degree of probability, incurable cancer just to take hype and think its ok.
Rip solo DH and clear builds.
Rise up abusers bugers and exploiters...


Thank you for sharing your opinion. It is a bit pessimistic though, as if not regarding the any of the above discussion.

You automatically assume +2 GRs strength is the end of build diversity. It isn't, look at S6 Impale, which is many tiers below UE6 Physical -- people still play and push with it. UE6 Physical is slightly ahead of N6M4, but at this point we attribute the difference to the map.

I wish we had these same mechanics and they were intentionally provided via skill or legendary effects, not augmented via potion.

DH has been playing the same mechanics since 2016, slightly buffed. 2.6.1 helped so much with diversity.

People WANT new game play experiences and this just happened to fall on our laps. It is condescending to call open-minded players abusers.

This M6 multishot build is a refreshing change. It barely closes the power gap between classes and it barely disrupts intra-class pushing.

Right now, players are still learning about this build, the potion blasts, etc. Many are experimenting and forming their own opinions on whether it should stay or go. We are going to see a shift in the distribution of leaderboard clears because the build is brand new. It doesn't mean it will stick, take N6 FoK for example, it is similar in many ways, but rarely played -- some just don't like waiting around to deliver big damage. That sentiment might be shared with M6 Multishot.

The top of the leaderboards are already changing on the EU server. The build is slightly more powerful and a GR120 clear emerged from the same 6700 paragon player who cleared GR128 with condemn crusader. Another 5400 paragon player cleared GR120 too. The clear times were 14:51 and 14:59 respectively. That is all the data we have.

It is hard to perfectly execute 25-28 consecutive potion blasts in a row. Is it fair for a challenging build to perform better than a simpler one? We literally have to do everything UE6 Multishot does plus take damage, time a potion with CoE, time Vengeance with the potion and CoE, make sure our sentries are in range and hope for the best. That is a separate topic for debate.

People are going to still play S6 Impale, N6M4 and UE6 -- and when the next PTR emerges, we'll request buffs to those builds and new ones too.
I also think Diamond is better and started using it a bit ago, the RCR was mainly for discipline but you can play around it and get some more Vengeance uptime, which is really nice.

Shi Mizu is not really going to work, I checked that with my character already and even with really good rings / amulet etc the potential gain is marginal. The closest we could compare it to is N6 + SMH, where the SMH version is maybe 2 tiers or so stronger than the regular if everything goes perfectly. Main issues with M6 are that we are using a quiver and not dual wield, thus lower CHD, and we want to use Steady Aim but can't give up Awareness in a SMH build, N6 doesn't have Steady Aim. Other factors are that N6 uses a lot fewer Oculus rings, and the amount of pets is not negligible either, on N6 you know precisely how much damage you're going to take while with 6 targetable pets and follower it's kinda RNG.

Coltovsky, you haven't even pushed properly since LoN FoK times, I don't see why you're complaining about the fact that we have a new and exciting build to play right now. Maybe log in and try it out? It's fun! M6 was already pretty dead but at least usable with Cluster Arrow before. M6 Multishot was simply outclassed by UE and pretty much the same playstyle anyway. Here we have something really new and that was definitely needed after seasons of N6/M4 and UE dominance. All we'd need now is to bring down this build's damage by maybe 20-25% and it would be perfect.

Edit: Well, two keys after this post... https://gyazo.com/925d0fd0b474f4f289840df816e66e48
Was a pretty good rift and I didn't really do big mistakes, maximum potential would be ~120 in a dream rift at 3k paragon I'd say, so I'd rank it 1.5-2 tiers above UE.
We all know, that heal potion must heal you, not multiply buged snapshot damage, right?
So what is the point to play this broken mechanic? Only because its fun?

wudi, we all know about last solo dh bug, when you can equip knife and crossbow at same time. This bug was fixed, but some players be able to play it for whole year! The next point was abusing bug exploit dh + necromancer, but developers have stopped responding correctly to such things.
Now you know why did i left game and "haven't even pushed properly".

Let's sum up the results:
Abusing bug exploits does not lead to anything good, both for the game itself and for those who play it.

You keep making mistakes and learn nothing from history, guys.
Demon Hunter realy need some buffs, but not the buged ones.

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