Diablo's Lore has been backed into a corner.

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Blizzard is messing a lot with the lore of the games and removes or changes parts of it to create space for new lore.

Let's just take it a step further and pretend that Diablo 3 never happened in the first place :P
Everybody always talks about our character, but I like to focus on the characters actually in the game and that's where the real problem with lore is. Here is where the event's of d3 have left us...

Diablo - Dead and gone forever
Maphisto - Dead and gone forever
Baal - Dead and gone forever
Belial - Dead and gone forever
Azmodan - Dead and gone forever
Any form of a prime evil - Dead and gone forever
Soulstones - Destroyed/consumed and gone forever

Diablo 3 has left us with a MASSIVE imbalance between light and dark.

If there is ever a Diablo 4, it's going to have to be about humanity waging a war on heaven and killing all the archangels.

At this point that's the only way to restore the balance.

If this isn't done then eventually the archangels will destroy humanity. It's just the way it works. The heavens are just as destructive and deadly to humanity as the hells. If not more so.
11/25/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Thanatos
Diablo is thematically rooted in the idea of an unstoppable, eternal threat in the form of Diablo himself. So why even call a sequel Diablo when a Nephalem at the end of Diablo III can basically just stare at him and make him explode?


That's why Diablo 3's target audience are retarded teens who consider that Eclipse is a deep story.
04/09/2019 11:55 AMPosted by Buckles
Everybody always talks about our character, but I like to focus on the characters actually in the game and that's where the real problem with lore is. Here is where the event's of d3 have left us...

Diablo - Dead and gone forever
Maphisto - Dead and gone forever
Baal - Dead and gone forever
Belial - Dead and gone forever
Azmodan - Dead and gone forever
Any form of a prime evil - Dead and gone forever
Soulstones - Destroyed/consumed and gone forever

Diablo 3 has left us with a MASSIVE imbalance between light and dark.

If there is ever a Diablo 4, it's going to have to be about humanity waging a war on heaven and killing all the archangels.

At this point that's the only way to restore the balance.

If this isn't done then eventually the archangels will destroy humanity. It's just the way it works. The heavens are just as destructive and deadly to humanity as the hells. If not more so.


I would rather stick away from big fights between humanity, heavens and hell. This is one of the reasons why diablo 3 fails.

There's a basic rule in Gothic fiction: you never show the monster. You keep it in the background so it's always mysterious and its threat can never be quantified. When you show it, you make it real and defeatable. Though, Diablo 1 was the only game in the series to get this right. D2 comes close.

This is why isometric (non-wide camera) makes the journey more scary.
11/25/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Thanatos
Our Diablo III character is more powerful than that in canonical lore.


I doubt it. Just an inner voice telling me it's not the case.

11/25/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Thanatos

As the thread title says... Diablo's Lore has been backed into a corner.


And it should end there right away or we'd see another expansion pack for D3 to unveil the truth behind it all.

11/25/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Thanatos
If anyone has a better scenario for Diablo IV's story, I'd love to hear your thoughts.


I see more than one twists to the end of story. These mostly include the Adria as a key person for things to unfold at the future.

My opinion is that, we may never know what really happened until we see or hear the story of Diablo: Immortal. And yes, I know it sucks but I highly doubt Blizzard would be willing to unveil the further story until they tie up some loose ends at the past with D:I.

04/09/2019 12:54 PMPosted by Olbat
This is why isometric (non-wide camera) makes the journey more scary


Short sighted view with low resolution made it abit more immersive but artificial intelligence was weak at that times and one of the main reasons why we had such limitations. Monsters were incapable of seeking player properly and open to exploitation of their lacking features.

04/09/2019 11:55 AMPosted by Buckles
Diablo 3 has left us with a MASSIVE imbalance between light and dark.


Bittersweet ending where all evil let loose upon world and created a potential threat to everyone on their wake. I think it was pretty hitting.
04/09/2019 12:54 PMPosted by Olbat
This is why isometric (non-wide camera) makes the journey more scary


Short sighted view with low resolution made it abit more immersive but artificial intelligence was weak at that times and one of the main reasons why we had such limitations. Monsters were incapable of seeking player properly and open to exploitation of their lacking features.

To be more specific, what I meant is that wide angle viewing when seeing large background outdoor environments make the game more epic fantasy. Because less claustrophobic.
04/09/2019 12:54 PMPosted by Olbat
04/09/2019 11:55 AMPosted by Buckles
Everybody always talks about our character, but I like to focus on the characters actually in the game and that's where the real problem with lore is. Here is where the event's of d3 have left us...

Diablo - Dead and gone forever
Maphisto - Dead and gone forever
Baal - Dead and gone forever
Belial - Dead and gone forever
Azmodan - Dead and gone forever
Any form of a prime evil - Dead and gone forever
Soulstones - Destroyed/consumed and gone forever

Diablo 3 has left us with a MASSIVE imbalance between light and dark.

If there is ever a Diablo 4, it's going to have to be about humanity waging a war on heaven and killing all the archangels.

At this point that's the only way to restore the balance.

If this isn't done then eventually the archangels will destroy humanity. It's just the way it works. The heavens are just as destructive and deadly to humanity as the hells. If not more so.


I would rather stick away from big fights between humanity, heavens and hell. This is one of the reasons why diablo 3 fails.

There's a basic rule in Gothic fiction: you never show the monster. You keep it in the background so it's always mysterious and its threat can never be quantified. When you show it, you make it real and defeatable. Though, Diablo 1 was the only game in the series to get this right. D2 comes close.

This is why isometric (non-wide camera) makes the journey more scary.


You're not wrong. However, I think D2 did something unparalleled for me. It managed to show the main threat and I still felt like I was deprived of sight on what I'm facing against and made the threat bigger than ever.

Take a look at this cinematic from Diablo 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UELNx0YU0Qg

This cinematic can be analyzed in so many ways to why it's great, but I will just get to my point.

After Mephisto gave his speech and the Wanderer transformed into Diablo, his face never gets shown, his figure is veiled in shadow and then he disappears into the portal.

After my character went through that portal and arrived in the Pandemonium Fortress; The music, the surroundings, the dialogue all made me feel like my character is hopeless. That they're in a higher place beyond humans and cannot even begin to comprehend on what they're facing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2XzZZI0f48

Diablo 3 failed so hard to create atmosphere like this.
bravo sir. I agree.
In Diablo 4, we should play Diablo, and the Nephalems should be the bad guys. They can even pick a real player's character, maybe the most powerful during the Diablo 3 time and make him the bad guy? Or maybe have several Nephalems, one from each class be the bag guys, and the "hero" will be one of the demons or angels?
I think they did a horrible way of portraying Diablo, Azmodan and Belial.

Especialy Diablo and Azmodan. Having them constantly pop up on screen just to remind you about how evil they are was annoying at best. They more felt like Darkwing duck antagonists then actual demons.

I know diablo isnt a game about story. But they decided to put a lot of dialog and stories into the game and Blizzard has millions of dollars to work with. Dont tell me they couldnt get better writers then what they got here.

A lot of the dialog feels like its written by a 10 yr old.
Not to mention the death of deckard cain. What a letdown.
Diablo is not really Swords and Sorcery but just darker and edgier, its Call of Cthulu but with swords and sorcery. Mortals aren't meant to kill Diablo and his kin just as you arent meant to kill Cthulu. Instead they are stopped, narrowly, and at great cost.

When D3 was re-made as heroic fantasy it lost this aspect of mortal struggle against the Unfathomable Dark and thus lost its most important theme. This had multi-layered ramifications and I'll use the example of religion / belief as an example. In the D1/2 instruction manuals many of the classes / skills have vignettes that centered around mortal dedication, discipline, and belief triumphing over the forces of Hell. Religion can be seen as a sort of codification of the collective strength of thought / spirit needed to combat these extra-worldly entities that otherwise would drive the average person insane. Thus when D1/2 portray dark/desecrated religious imagery it resonates with the player, at least aesthetically speaking, because its like the very thing that gives mortals some ability to content with Hell is being perverted or brought low, leaving the player / mortal powerless and in peril.

D3 lacks this resonate imagery because they misunderstood the core theme of
"unknowable horror."
I am not very much into diablo lore but I like the swordplay barbarians and sorcerers idea...it is a very common game element and very popular to use
as for the story it is just angels are good, demons are evil, man is neutral and must decide to fight for his own interests

but you are complaining about diablo's power and that would fall into the programmers who are in charge of the boss battle system I guess

the problem with diablo is he is limited to a few skill moves I guess
hell lightning
bone prison
ring of fire
melee
and now the terror shadow form
summon clone
i'll be honest diablo 3 was a lot easier to play than diablo 2...you can basically kill everything with a few magical and rares unless you want to do the seasonal torments with the bonus crap

also diablo is a little skinnier than in diablo 2 so the 3d modeler had a problem making a more menacing demon body for him i guess

diablo 3 is pretty easy game the only threat to my low character is exploding elites and juggernaut slam attacks and i guess 20-30 javelins from goatmen or flying range attackers

so for diablo 4 blizzard must create a whole boss battle system that rivals world of warcraft bosses....giving elites and bosses special skills that make them totally more powerful than just a solo monk or necromancer spamming their dps in the billions

developers need to remember the skills they give to player characters and give them to elites and bosses more often...

teleport - when diablo is critically hit he teleports away
open a portal - diablo or other demons rely on portals to summon more allies
spineknockback - all diablo spineshards attacks perform knockback
cleave - diablos claws cleave multiple players in melee possibly even 1% autoslay
breath of fire - channeling massive dps
hell lightning - faster channel and heavier dps
ring of fire - quick cast leaves a burning pathway in 9 or 12 directions like d2
falling objects - greed's falling chests kill me alot so diablo needs some falling rock
seeking earthquake - greeds earthquake never seems to miss, diablo should use it

butcher's ground inferno - the butcher is probably harder for low levels, because the ground is on fire, he can pull you to him and he charges through ignoring dmg
if you were to fight diablo in his true lair and true form he would definately have traps and rough terrain in the hell sanctuary

malthael's death clouds - diablo could use some of these in a red fiery form

bone prison - maybe drain life while in bone prison until players destroy it
demonskin - diablo should resist physical damage because of his thick demon hide
juggernaut slam - a powerful troll slam with his both fists
pick up and bite the head off - one of the demons roars at you, might as well bite
demon barbarian leap - diablo jumps and slams an area like falling sword
minions - diablo should have minions like cultists, cultists who summon demons, armies of death knights (the d2 kind which use iron maiden and fire death bolts)
pitlords and siegebreaker beasts, as well as flying dragondemon escorts

decapitate - enemy rolls for a chance to autokill a player on a slow long swing
multiply - demons use mirror image to increase their number
reanimate - demons come back to life after death
lesser and greater whole - you destroy a big creature it turns into smaller lesser creatures, you destroy small creatures their souls animate a large object into destructive form

immunities - i'm noticing on lower levels that immunities are not very relative to the game, you can basically pick a element type and spam it and usually kill everything regardless of the element you pick

in diablo the devils and demons should have immunities
diablo immunity to fire - diablo is hell incarnate and should ignore flames
bael immunity to ice - bael mainly does avalanche and should ignore cold
mephisto immunity to lightning - meph shoots lightning and should ignore it
weakness to holy ancient primal weapons - holy power is the weapon against evil

red demons are immune to fire
blue demons are immune to ice
gold demons are immune to lightning
green demons are immune to poison
purple demons are immune to arcane
white demons are immune to holy
angels are immune to holy resist the rest highly
juggernaut demons and undead have resistance to physical

another thing
in final fantasy there are certain bosses who act as 3 or 5 elements...head, arms, body etc...maybe you could attack diablo's head to blind him, attack his hands to slow his melee and stop him from performing elite moves, then kill him by attacking the body target and going for destroying the heart of diablo
doesn't have to be implemented but could be used for more interactive boss battles

anyways diablo is limited because he is just a big demon with control of fire and command of a demon and undead army of deathknights

bael and mephisto would probably be the harder boss because of magic use
bael could cast blizzard, ray of frost, mirror image, and summon elite ice demons
but ice manipulation spells are lacking in diablo3 so they need to make some new clever skills which would make the magicians appear more formidable

everyone pretty much spams a deadly ray of frost
how about a multiple ray of frost or a collossal beam of frost or how about a trap that sprays ray of frost or a flying minion that spams ray of frost or a set of robes that deals frost nova every time you are hit

mephisto the real wizard devil is a little more capable i guess
mephisto could cast chainlightning, lightning arcane orb, slow time, arcane shield, blackhole and summon imps which charge and explode, or shamans which spam fireballs

and besides monster magic
elite demons could also use evil monk skills like burning wind, immunity shield and healing spells or necromancer blood spells

i guess i could go on and on about how the game could work
but the main problem is the monsters are not equal to the players

monsters just have a melee attack, an elite spell if they are elite and a death nova

they are there for people to slay in mass quantities and get humongous loot drops

if monsters were made more realistic it would go like this i suppose

evil humans have armor set bonuses and skills equal to their player character counterparts and are perhaps the hardest to fight since you would be fighting cpu bots which use player skills and ai or player techniques like kiteing and avoidance and trapping and bullrushing and distraction

undead are immune to cold electricity physical and poison, must be physical fire or holy to kill them, but they still walk slowly and barely attack

beasts are immune to cold because they have fur and deal massive physical and bleed damage

demons resist elements and physical but are weak to holy and use elemental magics skills and fight like barbarians

magical beings resist arcane but weak to physical and the elements
elemental beings resist elements and physical but weak to arcane and holy

holy power would basically be the boss power since it kills everything except angels and is a composition of fire ice lightning and arcane without the physical or poison which would be human weapons since humans in reality just use physical tools and poisons as medicines or inhibiters

ok i am done typing
i like your topic but i think the game is just the game...a more streamlined version of diablo 2 which in itself is a simple game...you kill stuff, you steal their items you kill more stuff with better items

sorry for ruining the thread with my nonsense and i hope you have a good day
Don't worry, I have it all planned out.

Diablo 4 pre-quil cut-scene 1:

Our 3 followers are camped in the desert awaiting our return to camp. A force of Demons arrive to kill them stating they are a new breed of demon, and they have learned from the mistakes of their predecessors, so they will take down the Nephilim by killing our followers first. Our followers laugh and tell the demons they made a big mistake, because it ends up that they are Nephilim also, it just took a while for their power to develop. Big fight, followers kick !@#.

TADA !! - three new classes to play. Each has a levelling-up storyline to follow that takes place between Diablo 3 and 4 and plays though their 'awakening' as Nephilim.

Diablo 4 pre-quil cut-scene 2:

Cain appears to our Nephilim as a ghost, and tell us that Leah is still alive, trapped in Hell, and he has a plan to save her. We gather our followers and invade Hell. Aided by Cain's ghost Demon rebels he has contacted, we sneak to where Leah is being held - bust her out and fight our way back out. But, Leah is not the same as she was...she is now a Demonoid - part human, part Demon. And there are more of them than we think.

TADA !! - another new class to play - Demonoid. New locations to fight in - Hell does not look like what we think it does. We can now equip all four followers when playing solo, as long as they are max level (the more followers we equip, the harder the mission). They can use all of their abilities, but put out lower damage, and they need to be FULLY equipped. We can swap to between followers mid game if we choose.

Diablo 4, the story of the war against the new breed of Demon, superior to the old in every way...

No need to thank me.

P.S. I really HAVE to stop daydreaming...
It means Diablo's lore is going to de-evolve like wows did. Soon WoW even saw fit to copy cat movies regarding design and art. (what they think we would not know lol). Soon there will be Cartoon Pandas giving life lessons, bears jumping to trampolines, and other socio/political messaging in the game that get crammed down our throats.

The essence of Diablo soon will be be mongralized to the point that there will be no recovery unless there is a course correction.
11/27/2018 09:19 AMPosted by Kyrios
There is One other option...
I have put thought into exactly what you are saying. How does this saga continue? There is only one conclusion... The Nephalem are too powerful, so the Angels in fear for what the Nephalem might become, band together to strip them of their power and develop their own strong holds around the world to ensure they are never overthrown. The former Nephalem are then approached by Diablo, who gives them a new darker power, in return they must purge the world of the Angels and send them back to the heavens...
This does a few thing, it creates a darker story line/ darker tone, Re-sets the Nephalems power, and it creates a new enemy to fight.


I hate d3, but we need to accept that it's cannon and something needs to be done to clear all that !@#$ and start a new era in the first D4 expansion.

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