On being called "entitled"

General Discussion
11/08/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Kukiri
11/08/2018 12:21 PMPosted by LucasShark
More than that: the Asian market deserves better than to be taken advantage of. They deserve games that aren't terrible cash-grabs too.


White knighting for the Asians?

Don't worry. They can decide for themselves what they want to buy or not without your "help".


Wow... just wow... and they called the people mad about this !@#$ "toxic".
For those saying we are not "entitled" to complain, because apparently this is just a business transaction, your missing the "fan" factor.

Yes, Blizzard can make whatever they want, and yes, we can choose to purchase it or not, but customer loyalty is huge in business because it is guaranteed money. Many companys work specificly to build brand loyalty in their customers. Blizzard is not "entitled" to fan loyalty anymore than we are "entitled" to complain. Fan loyalty is the currency that "entitles" us to complain, unless Blizzard is specificly no longer seeking to maintain a fandom.
11/08/2018 12:19 PMPosted by Jinx
11/08/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Jezzicles
I agree. Being a customer does not make it a parent-child relationship where Blizzard serves up a plate of overcooked vegetables and we have to eat it.


Sure, but you don't need to throw a tantrum either.

This is especially true when they say that steak you want is on the way (but not ready yet). And you don't need to run around screaming vegetables suck, nobody should have vegetables, and they need to throw them all out.


So I'm throwing a tantrum by saying that I'm displeased with their direction? I'm not spamming middle fingers in the comments, I'm simply voicing displeasure.

I don't think you understand how this business-customer thing works. We pay them money, they stay in business. We tell them what we like, they deliver, we give them more money. It's not hard...

They build a reputation, they get more leeway from consumers when they mess up. They get huge day one sales due to reputation.

They've eroded their reputation consistently over the last few years. I know because I've been a fan of ALL of their products, not just Diablo. A mobile game is exactly the opposite of what needed to happen. We expect "steak" because they have produced the best "steak" in the past and are known for it. Their "steak" has been going down in quality for years. D:I is like being served a plate of boiled crickets at a point where everyone is already unimpressed by their products of late.
11/08/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Jezzicles

So I'm throwing a tantrum by saying that I'm displeased with their direction? I'm not spamming middle fingers in the comments, I'm simply voicing displeasure.


Ok my comment was a generic "you" rather than you personally.

I'm more referring to the high level of outrage where some are uninstalling all Blizzard games, organising petitions, promoting mass downvotes etc.

That stuff is hugely over the top when you could just say it's probably not for me but they've repeatedly said they've got multiple projects in the work (later clarified to include PC) so let's just wait for that.
I can sort of see where we might be called "entitled" because the backlash on the part of some might (and that's a mighty big might) be a slight overreaction. But real entitlement is a company that makes a bad decision and expects not to catch flak for it. Real entitlement is game journalists rushing to said companies defense and calling those that call out the company for making said bad decision "entitled".

So I say...

Pot meet Kettle.
11/08/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Jinx
11/08/2018 12:21 PMPosted by LucasShark
More than that: the Asian market deserves better than to be taken advantage of. They deserve games that aren't terrible cash-grabs too.


That's just you projecting and getting angry over what you're imagining rather than anything you know about DI.

Do you think Blizzard's other games with microtransactions are cash grabs? What about Activision Blizzard's biggest mobile game Candy Crush?


Having said that I think you're right.

Asian gamers do deserve better than low quality cash grabs. They deserve a high quality game from a company with a history of doing mtx right. They deserve Diablo: Immortal.
Wanting to throw money at someone for them doing their job, but requiring them to do a job well done, is the opposite of entitlement:

It's a customer that knows what he or she wants.
It's demand.

And by the gods, the supply of great quality ARPGs aren't there to meet the demand.

What the actual heck happened to Supply <---> Demand?

Are the new age capitalists chasing the dragon, believing market research and advertising can replace talent, innovation and quality?

---

If RoS and subsequently Necro sales weren't to par -- that was the core game not living up to it's expectations, not the Diablo series not being in demand.

...

When it comes to entertainment, great artists create great demand.
Great games create demand.

And admittably, when that demand exists -- half the consumers will eat crap and claim they love it, but that requires the game or genre be culturally accepted as a pass-time.
11/08/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Jinx
11/08/2018 12:21 PMPosted by LucasShark
More than that: the Asian market deserves better than to be taken advantage of. They deserve games that aren't terrible cash-grabs too.


That's just you projecting and getting angry over what you're imagining rather than anything you know about DI.

Do you think Blizzard's other games with microtransactions are cash grabs? What about Activision Blizzard's biggest mobile game Candy Crush?


Yes; I do think the other games that Acti-blizz have put out with Micro-transactions in are massive exploitative cash-grabs in Activisions insatiable hunt for more money despite already owning some of the most profitable IPs and products on Earth. Furthermore; they're dicks about it, like oh I don't know: filing a lawsuit against the developers of "the banner saga" for having the temerity to use the word "saga" after Candy Crush did... you know; as if the English language is a thing.
11/08/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Frostraven
Wanting to throw money at someone for them doing their job, but requiring them to do a job well done, is the opposite of entitlement:

It's a customer that knows what he or she wants.
It's demand.

And by the gods, the supply of great quality ARPGs aren't there to meet the demand.

What the actual heck happened to Supply <---> Demand?

Are the new age capitalists chasing the dragon, believing market research and advertising can replace talent, innovation and quality?

---

If RoS and subsequently Necro sales weren't to par -- that was the core game not living up to it's expectations, not the Diablo series not being in demand.

...

When it comes to entertainment, great artists create great demand.
Great games create demand.

And admittably, when that demand exists -- half the consumers will eat crap and claim they love it, but that requires the game or genre be culturally accepted as a pass-time.


Agreed in full: but particularly on that last point. The willingness for some gamers to roll over and accept terrible products and exploitative business practices helps nobody by shareholders. Indeed: it may well lead to a gaming industry crash at some point in future because this spiral of ever more profits can only last so long; people have a finite amount of money.
Wyatt clearly is entitled to people liking anything he makes. "Do you not have phone?" Can't possibly imagine someone not kissing his butt for a product no one wanted.
11/08/2018 01:19 PMPosted by Midnight
Wyatt clearly is entitled to people liking anything he makes. "Do you not have phone?" Can't possibly imagine someone not kissing his butt for a product no one wanted.


Yeah... though whether that's entitlement or ignorance is up for debate. I've joked for years that all companies beyond a certain size should have an on-staff 10-14 year old to explain the bleedingly obvious to people who are so insulated from the rest of the world they may as well live on another planet. Had they asked basically anybody not in the Blizzard corporate bubble whether this announcement would go down well, they'd have gotten an emphatic and immediate "hell no!" and this whole thing would have been avoided, at least for a while.
https://youtu.be/hFfIbJPqf5U?t=56
11/08/2018 02:12 PMPosted by XVII
https://youtu.be/hFfIbJPqf5U?t=56


Well stated Mark Kern
keep on impotently raging and flooding the forum with tears if it makes you feel better.

if it makes you feel better, keep on raging instead of finding another game you like and playing it.

They can decide for themselves what they want to buy or not without your "help".
Every word you've written just proves what a worthless human being you are. Talking down to others, acting like their voices don't matter, lording yourself over them. You're the worst scum I've ever had the misfortune to come across on the Internet, and I've "met" some pretty vile, toxic losers.

Oh well, Blizzard's fan base has spoken, and they have a choice: pander to the mobile market and have their "best developers" work on those, or keep their core fan base who - up until a week ago - would have bought anything they released for PC with the Diablo name at full price. That kind of loyalty is hard to win for a company, and they'd be fools to give it up for short-term profit.
11/08/2018 02:28 PMPosted by LucasShark
11/08/2018 02:12 PMPosted by XVII
https://youtu.be/hFfIbJPqf5U?t=56


Well stated Mark Kern

Very well stated.
11/08/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Idolis
I can sort of see where we might be called "entitled" because the backlash on the part of some might (and that's a mighty big might) be a slight overreaction. But real entitlement is a company that makes a bad decision and expects not to catch flak for it. Real entitlement is game journalists rushing to said companies defense and calling those that call out the company for making said bad decision "entitled".

So I say...

Pot meet Kettle.


The fact that the very journalists who are supposed to hold these companies to task when they do something wrong have developed a reputation and habit of leaping to said companies defense against their own readers is nothing short of shameful... Oi! Games press! It's almost as of those shouty-angry people talking about "ethics in games journalism" had a point!
<span class="truncated">...</span>

If they want us to keep buying shoes? YES. Yes we CAN demand a level of quality, yes we CAN demand a given style. If we come to a company to buy rain boots, and they decide to be "experimental" and make new flip-flop rain boots made out of cardboard to "appeal to the green hippie demographic", we can be upset that we arent' getting rain boots fit for purpose.


Here's the thing.

They pay some very expensive and educated consultants to help map their future games. But you want them to put the opinions of a bunch of whiny butt-hurt children above that?

Good luck with that. But keep on impotently raging and flooding the forum with tears if it makes you feel better.
Marketers and Consultants don't know jack when it comes to plotting out good games.
They don't care about good games, you hire them because you only want money, that's the simple and the short of it.

A game company of marketers and Consultants, with only 5% of them being actual devs, wouldn't be capable of making quality, if the devs were composed of every legendary development member in all of gaming, to ever exist.

Also you people acting like being entitled is a bad thing, here's the thing.

Nobody is actually saying it's bad aside from one group. Now some people are starting to agree, Yeah, we are entitled, but you know what? We have all the reason on Planet Earth.

Blizzard OWES their entire legacy to their dedicated fans, therefore, their continued existence is quite literally at OUR whims. Therefore, we have ample reason to demand products that we can then justifiably give money to.

We don't want a blatant scam in a legit suit, we want a fully-fledged, PC-optimized Diablo game. People PAID MONEY to be fed that news. Literal Hundreds of dollars in some people's cases, if not a lot of people's cases.

If anyone should be at all entitled, it should be every poor soul who attended Blizzcon for Diablo news this year. If everyone knew what was coming, I guarantee you the Diablo blizzcon area would have been mostly barren of people, like if everyone got a mass bout of clairvoyance the night before.

I'd think it would be obvious that, a company wants to give their audience a game they can chew on for the next five years, not one literally designed as a weaponized waste of time and money which isn't even that good or fun.

I personally played Diablo 1 for thousands of hours, literal plural here. I've bought 2 copies of Diablo 2, including expansion pack, and I've bought myself all the DLC for D3, and I even bought Diablo 3 for both of my sisters, including Reaper of Souls for both, and I even did it for 2 more of my friends.

I personally have no problem, and no guilt in demanding something with at least more effort thrown into it. If Blizzard wants to get into mobile, the least they can do is damn-well develop it themselves, in-house!

Treating people like they're entitled, and acting like it's a bad thing, ain't gonna work anymore. You're just gonna have to resort to a different tactic of white-knighting Blizzard.

Try Shaming us, it sure worked well for David Brevik, man who is now completely out of touch with the extreme majority Diablo fans, DESPITE creating the franchise and basically owing his whole legacy to US, the players of Diablo 1 and 2.
11/08/2018 01:19 PMPosted by Midnight
Wyatt clearly is entitled to people liking anything he makes. "Do you not have phone?" Can't possibly imagine someone not kissing his butt for a product no one wanted.


it is so unbearably arrogant and d-baggy that it is nauseating a "gaming journalist" would accuse any consumer of being entitled. goes to show that everyone is just out for themselves because those "journalists" only write that trash to leech off the carcass that is controversy.
11/08/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Void0
Sounds pretty entitled to me. You literally bought a product, trade in hard cash for a product. Not that I'm a supporter of this mumbo-jumbo they pulled out of their hat...


<span class="truncated">...</span>

If they want us to keep buying shoes? YES. Yes we CAN demand a level of quality, yes we CAN demand a given style. If we come to a company to buy rain boots, and they decide to be "experimental" and make new flip-flop rain boots made out of cardboard to "appeal to the green hippie demographic", we can be upset that we arent' getting rain boots fit for purpose.


Here's the thing.

They pay some very expensive and educated consultants to help map their future games. But you want them to put the opinions of a bunch of whiny butt-hurt children above that?

Good luck with that. But keep on impotently raging and flooding the forum with tears if it makes you feel better.


well those expensive and educated consultants ripped blizz the !@#$ off and it seems that just like blizz those consultants don't know %^-* about blizzards fan base. and if you were not paying attention that impotent rage dropped blizzards stock.
What's interesting to me is that these so-called "professionals" are apparently in the business of abusing and berating the very consumer base that engages with their product.

When other businesses do this (see every restaurant/hotel/etc scandal ever where an owner goes off on a customer), they suffer greatly for it, but apparently it's okay, acceptable, and defend-able, to act this way towards "gamers". When every other customer gets upset about a poor product or poor management, it's a legitimate opinion worth backing up. When a "gamer" complains about the exact same thing, we get told to sit down, shut up, that we're babies, that we're entitled, and that we're a symptom of "toxic masculinity". Seriously?

More importantly, why do "gamers" allow this behavior towards them to continue? Why do we continue to funnel hundreds upon thousands upon billions of dollars into a corporate machine that is very clearly only here to suck every dollar out of our gullible promise-believing selves? The way they treat their staff is deplorable- thousands of companies throw their employees out the door on a daily basis and the gaming industry is one of the worst places to keep stable work. Every other day is another complaint about sexism in the workplace. The situation we're in right now with Diablo: Immortal is only one small bite in the iceberg of what "gaming" has become.

I'm not proud to call myself a gamer anymore. :(

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