#MakeDiabloRPGAgain - How fix Diablo

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I think cooldowns are fine as long as they have the timing that is relevant to combat.

5 minute cooldown in WoW? Perfectly fine.

2 minute cooldown in Diablo? Not fine.

3-10 second cooldown in Diablo? That's fine. I've been playing a lot of Grim Dawn and they have plenty of short cooldown skills. But they also have some skill choices to remove certain cooldowns so you can choose to have a powerful skill on a cooldown, or a spamable skill.

It lets you have a variety of builds that may not be too different in terms of play style, but it's better than just having multiple skills and you only spam the strongest.
Make sure that your other Diablo games are PC first games. If they are mobile then you will lose all of your Diablo fans for good.

11/22/2018 04:59 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
This boring mechanic who makes NO SENSE started with generic mmorpg's in a way to balance skills because is the unique way that developers found to prevent you from spamming the best skills.


If I understand the mechanics of cooldowns. They are used in games because if they weren't the resource cost would be so high that you could very well be spending your entire time generating resources to use that big skill again.

11/22/2018 04:59 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Reach level cap should require a ton of time, level cap should means that there are no more room for improvment. On Pathfinder Kingmaker, after 80 hours of gameplay, i reached lv 17(max level is 20) and will probably be lv 18/19 on end game.


Here is where I disagree, you might still find upgrades in gear. You might even keep improving at playing your chosen build. Also you might want to farm various areas for your other characters. It is not like max level means delete that character and do it again. That doesn't give me any attachment to that character if I need to delete it after reaching max level.

11/22/2018 04:59 PMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
This again, is another mmo "trope" and was implemented thanks to RMAH(who was removed), so thanks to it, we need to see monks carrying big and sharp axes, only to dismaterialize it, then punch then rematerialize it.


IIRC This was added due to the fact that Jay and Company, during the time when MF was useful, didn't want a player to sacrifice so much power just to have a good MF. This is usually the case in most games that support making MF type builds.
11/27/2018 02:55 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Did you played games such as IWD/BG/NWN/M&M/ETC? None of then have cooldown and... None of then is "spam the same skill"

And none of them are ARPGs.

11/27/2018 02:55 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Dragon Breath(master level dark magic) on M&M VIII is an amazing spell who can decimate even the strongest foes in few rounds, but i can't spam then for the risk of "collateral damage", for the high mana cost, use against creatures with high dark resistance, etc; developers balanced the skills in a way who makes sense.

Friendly fire in a multiplayer based game may seem cool on paper, but it's has the potential to become incredibly annoying in an ARPG. They're are completely different. Combat is chaotic by nature. You don't get to pause and think like you would on a traditional CRPG.

Can you imagine how incredibly annoying it would be having to deal with collateral damage from someone in your party casting something like meteor, or any other AoE skill, for that matter? Hell, it's the freaking internet. We all know a lot of griefing and trolling would happen if this ever became a thing. This works fairly well for single player CRPGs, but it has no place in a game like Diablo. Why you actually thought this would work here is truly baffling.

11/27/2018 02:55 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Not necessarily a "rock paper scissors", but is more like a "chess" system.

Same thing, different flavor. Don't let technicalities distract you.

I agree.

D3 = Gear
Grim Dawn = Gear + Attribute + devotion + skill

I honestly din't liked GD in some aspects(cooldown) and found the base classes not that interesting, but GD is a amazing game with mods.

You don't like cooldowns because you don't like cooldowns. Logic?

11/27/2018 02:55 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Well, D2 and D1 din't had cooldown but cooldown lead players into a rotation and this always happens in any game with cooldown.

And the problem with rotations is? Cooldowns are just another form of resource management. What difference does it really make to run out of mana and have to wait to get enough to cast a spell or having to wait by default and being able to reduce the time to cast again? At a fundamental level, there's very little difference here. It's simply approaching resource management from a different angle, and it's just as valid as limiting your resource pool, which in case you haven't noticed, is also a thing in D3. It may sound funny to argue for D3's depth, but here's some basic layering that actually furthers depth, somewhat.

Thing is, when cool-downs become too long, they feel off within such a hectic moment to moment combat system that's relatively unpredictable given the capricious nature of RNG. It's actually why they implemented crap like Dawn for the DH. Vengeance on it's own is a stupidly massive cooldown for a skill that's required for 95% of the class's builds, so they just applied a bandaid that's pretty much mandatory for those 95% builds. If these massive cooldowns weren't a thing, we wouldn't need stuff like Dawn for a class to work, for the most part.

What build doesn't use it? N6M4, which happens to be my favorite build for that very reason. It's a build where short cooldowns add just enough depth, without going overboard, plus it actually has a functional elemental effect, which is great. I actually feel in control, rather than at the mercy of these needlessly long barriers. Meanwhile, the vast majority of builds require some ridiculously long cooldown just to be functional and a bandaid to trivialize them in a hilarious exercise in futility, and I can't help to facepalm the hell out of my poor face for it.
I really don't see why cooldowns should be entirely removed when a game like Grim Dawn shows you can have a variety of builds based on cooldowns or not on cooldowns.

If you don't like cooldowns that's fine. If the game is robust enough in skill builds then you can make builds that don't rely on them.

That's not a reason to just remove them for everyone that does like them.
11/28/2018 07:26 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
I think cooldowns are fine as long as they have the timing that is relevant to combat.

5 minute cooldown in WoW? Perfectly fine.

2 minute cooldown in Diablo? Not fine.

3-10 second cooldown in Diablo? That's fine. I've been playing a lot of Grim Dawn and they have plenty of short cooldown skills. But they also have some skill choices to remove certain cooldowns so you can choose to have a powerful skill on a cooldown, or a spamable skill.

I also think that cooldowns shouldn't be too long, but I am actually okay with 2 minute cooldowns. Why? Because these long cooldowns wouldn't be much of a problem if an endgame character has somewhere between 40/50% to 75% cooldown reduction.

Sure, when you make a new character, these cooldowns might seem long in the early game, but the more you level up and the more you improve your attributes, your items, you skills and your passive skills, the lower the cooldowns can get and what was once a 120 second cooldown is now a 40 second cooldown, which isn't really tedious if you consider that we are talking about an ultimate form or an ultimate skill (aka extremely powerful skill) here.

One thing that I would add to prevent that you can have your ultimate active permanently is to give all these buffs the Smoke Screen and Spirit Walk treatment, which means that these skill will first start their cooldown after their effects expired. In return, the cooldown of an ultimate form that lasts 20 seconds can be reduced from 120 seconds to 100 seconds.

With a 65% cooldown reduction for example, your endgame build would have 20 seconds uptime on things like Wrath of the Berserker and a 40 second down time and with 75% CDR it is only a 25 second downtime. Movement skills like Teleport would go down from a 12 second cooldown to a 3 second cooldown with 75% CDR.

That is how I think they could have made long cooldown powers work in D3.
Well the problem is similar to magic find. Your character has to get a fairly large amount of cooldown reduction or it's nigh unplayable as an ability.

Just look at how many sets have a goal of permanence for those powerful abilities. Or how anemic necro is without the cooldowns.

It's such a power disparity for a super power mode. It's not fun and takes an entire stat and locks you into it.
11/28/2018 10:13 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
Well the problem is similar to magic find. Your character has to get a fairly large amount of cooldown reduction or it's nigh unplayable as an ability.

You only have to focus on it if you want to. You instead could also focus on more defense instead of cooldown if that is what you prefer. But in general I would say an average endgame build would have ~40-50% effective CDR if you take into account CDR from the attribute system, the skill, the items, gems/runes, enchantments and eventually your passive skills as well.

I know, D3 does not have all of these things, but we are talking about how long cooldown powers could be well designed, and in my opinion it would require systems like these to make them work.

11/28/2018 10:13 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
Just look at how many sets have a goal of permanence for those powerful abilities.

But that is because sets were intentionally designed that way. It is not necessarily the fault of these ultimates by themself.

11/28/2018 10:13 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
Or how anemic necro is without the cooldowns.

It's such a power disparity for a super power mode. It's not fun and takes an entire stat and locks you into it.

The LotD+Corpse Lance combo seems to be an exception in regards to the philosophy of the design of base skills when you compare that combo with how ultimates of other classes interact with their normal abilities. The combo is indeed very, very, problematic.

I would consider this combo an unintended, overly powerful synergy, just like CM Wizards or perma-Berserker WW Barbarians in vanilla. These two builds were eventually nerfed, because they relied on synergies that were not intended by the devs and these two builds were overly powerful compared to others at that time.

If D3 were still in full development, I think they would have scrapped LotD and would have replaced the skill with something different, due to its problematic nature, but since the Necro pack was done by a very small team as we know now, they simply did not want to put the time into it. That is why I think this build exists.
People are kind of missing the overarching design philosophy behind the usage of CDs in D3.

It's called WoW design. Homogenize skills to a unified source damage. Use variable coefficients, costs, and cool downs to give skills different orders of priority. Now you have 5+ button rotations to micro-manage. It's fine if the game was a role based MMO that uses end-game grouping, long scripted fights, and focused on personal performance for progression.

The D3 devs wanted this design because it would prevent skill spamming and eliminate min/maxing skills so causal couldn't make mistakes in progression paths. You can see it from the early days in D3V that it was the intention that there would be little to no skill specialization within the itemization.

In other words you can't build your character to spam one specialized main skill if you can't build your character.
it to create some sort of rotation (which also isn't necessarily a bad thing), but it certainly wasn't "for no reason".


Use the same rotation is awful. Is like spam the same skill

The ideal is to use different skills in different situations.

And what game sits at #1? Dota2... and DotA2 has what? Cooldowns. And WC3 had heroes which also used cooldowns as well.


Competitive games and RPG's are two different things.

11/28/2018 07:05 PMPosted by clueso
It is not "very different". It just is a global cooldown instead of a skill specific cooldown.


Is not exactly a "global cooldown", basically is a way to simulate the "action per rounds" from previous games into a real time battle system. On turn based combat(yes, M&M VI-VIII have both options), the recover time shows how much actions per turns your character can take.

11/28/2018 07:05 PMPosted by clueso
Anyway, playing a fire sorc in D2 would have felt so much better if Meteor had a 6-10 second cooldown instead of just 1.2 seconds


There are better ways to "fix" it.
A ) Make meteor deal fire + physical damage instead of only fire so it will be better against fire immune creatures, but not better than fireball in any situation
B ) Add a casting delay
C ) An little casting time
(...)

Or you can force the player to not use the meteor for a arbitrary amount of time.

They are used in games because if they weren't the resource cost would be so high that you could very well be spending your entire time generating resources to use that big skill again.


And what is the problem? If i wanna spend all of my power into a single skill, what is the problem?

It is not like max level means delete that character and do it again. That doesn't give me any attachment to that character if I need to delete it after reaching max level.


Never said delete after reach level cap.

Diablo 3 game is much more similar to a mmorpg than to a aRPG. Look to Dragon's Dogma, a very mainstream aRPG, very gear dependent and takes an eternity to reach level cap.

And none of them are ARPGs.


Look to Dragon's Dogma then. Was a very action based game, immolation damage yourself, Great Sacrifice requires you to sacrifice an companion, most sorcerer skills have casting time, etc, etc, etc; AND no cooldown.

There are situations where the skill A is better and situations where the B is better.

11/28/2018 08:12 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
ooldowns are just another form of resource management. What difference does it really make to run out of mana and have to wait to get enough to cast a spell or having to wait by default and being able to reduce the time to cast again?


The difference is that when i spended all of my mana, i choose to spend all of my power. I an not being artificially limited by a mechanic who makes no sense.

11/28/2018 09:14 PMPosted by GeminiEclips
That's not a reason to just remove them for everyone that does like them.


Diablo 1 - No cooldown
Diablo 2 - Short casting delays in few skills

Diablo should get his elements back from D1/D2, not copying wow elements who the diablo community doesn't like...

---------------------------------------

Here is how ultimate skills should be on a aRPG, high cost, high casting time, high damage output and... no cooldown. Dragon's Dogma did it right.

https://youtu.be/-mXQlO4iUf0?t=300

See the gorechimera fight too. He is not spamming the same skill, not because the developers force him into a rotation, but because each skill is good for different situations
What really grinds my gears is people who think d2 had decision making with skill points.

There was a route you could take. But at the end of the day it was all the same cookie cutter builds.

Some took the more passive ways like more damage. And such. Others took the prebuffs

But just like d3 you would buff yourself and spam 1-2 ability’s at best.

The gear progression was meh in d2. Yes blues and yellows had a place. But they were all meh at the end of the day.

Anyone who actually thinks d2 had an end game. And some say oh man it was pvp are well “special” let’s call it.

D3 has issues. Paragon system isn’t perfect. The set bonuses got out of hand.

But d3 has a huge room for improvement. They just need to hard reset the game with an expansion and a new level cap. Revamp paragons. And make sure the set bonuses arent so versatile that any spell works with them. More support lenegary gear. Make all the legendary gems more balanced.

Improve the pet build ai

We don’t need a d4 right now or in the near future d3 can be fixed and give us content we can enjoy for a long time. Because in the end you really can’t say d3 gfx or engine is outdated
11/28/2018 05:23 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
11/27/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Orrion
So what do you call a skill like Flame Dash that has 3 charges and takes time to refresh charges and gains 1% increased COOLDOWN recovery speed per 1% quality?

Anyway. Cooldowns are just way to balance things. PoE doesn't have 2 minute cooldowns, but the endgame builds are based around the same principles as the ones D3 are. Essentially, you break the resource system.

And I don't see how cooldowns break immersion any less than, say, accepting that you can somehow spew unlimited fireballs from your fingertips.


Assuming that magical power exists, someone be able to cast a fireball is one thing(not unlimited, after some fireballs, he needs to rest and recover his energy), be able to cast one fireball then only cast again after X amount of seconds but be magically able to materialize fire to cast other spells makes no sense.


My point is that in the endgame unlimited fireballs is something that happens.

My Witch in PoE can spam Arc all day.

Most PoE skills have no cooldowns, i din't said that all don't have cooldowns.


Yes you did. What else could the phrase “none of them have cooldowns” possibly mean?

And no, cooldowns are not to balance, are a cheap way to balance.


Uh. Saying they’re a cheap way to balance IS saying they are to balance.

I know English isn’t your main language, but come on.

If you can break the resource system, your resource system is broken. Look to classic cRPG's, IWD, BG, M&M, NWN, VtMB, Arcanum, etc; none of then have cooldown. If my sorcerer on nwn1 can cast 6 tier 9 magic, i can cast time stop 6 times in a row or any other tier 9 magic.


Then why are you using PoE as an example of what things should be? Builds break the resource system in that game all the time.

Hell, you love Grim Dawn too. Guess what builds in that game do? They break the resource system. In fact, builds in GD break the resource system way before D3 or PoE. I can spam AAR and never run out of Energy before I finish Normal difficulty on an Arcanist-centric build.
How to get the Diablo series back to what it was, why everyone wanted to play it?
Get Brev n his buddies like Matt-U n Co. back at blizzard, even temporarily, to make Diablo 4.

These 2018 Blizzcon and YT Interview devs do not understand what made Diablo 1 n 2 so cool.
It's shown, by example, with how they made Diablo 3, and RoS, and how they have-not openly and transparently communicated with the community in the least decade.

They just-love being PR and saying "multiple projects...its a meme...we know..." instead of "ok guys what do you like about Diablo 1 2 an 3, what sucks about those games, how should we mold Diablo 4...what do YOU want, not what we think is best...because....look at Diablo 3 and RoS...its obviously, un-debatably, not a sweet game, or fun, even though we still try to pitch D3 as what we've all wanted...when it clearly has not been and just sold off Diablo 2 and to check it out."

Get Brev n co back...these devs are 'multiple projects' not-transparent, brick walls, wont talk, and wont design a game with the community. High risk strategy that has already just failed with Diablo 3. Why try that a 2nd time? The confidence 'they know what we want' is sky high...yet...they don't talk about Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3...hard to believe they really know. /truth
But that is because sets were intentionally designed that way. It is not necessarily the fault of these ultimates by themself.


It is the fault of the "ultimates" because you need an absurd level of cooldown reduction to use them at a decent rate since it's a long cooldown.

It pigeon holes the combat into "save the ultimate for bosses" since it's a big power boost or have so much cdr that you can use it at a decent rate.

And then bosses become trivial with such a power boost. Get rid of "ultimates" and have just regular use abilities, and that problem goes away.
11/29/2018 05:52 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
Diablo 1 - No cooldown
Diablo 2 - Short casting delays in few skills

Diablo should get his elements back from D1/D2, not copying wow elements who the diablo community doesn't like...


That's what I want in case you missed my earlier post where I said I want short cooldowns. I agree with you, that long cooldowns are not good for Diablo style combat.

You can argue semantics if you want but short casting delays and short cooldowns are the same thing with a different name.

But also having a robust enough skill system where you can build around a spammable ability or around cooldowns means that you get what you want, and people who want some cooldowns get what they want.

There's no need to limit a skill system to just cater to one style of player.
11/29/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Dmoney
But d3 has a huge room for improvement. They just need to hard reset the game with an expansion and a new level cap. Revamp paragons. And make sure the set bonuses arent so versatile that any spell works with them. More support lenegary gear. Make all the legendary gems more balanced.


This game could be fixed, but I do believe that there is some truth to the Kotaku article that said that Blizz's business execs (suits) looked at D3 as a big mess that cannot be repaired. Where it is better to move on to D4. If this is true then we won't be seeing any new content to this game. The only new stuff will be the things that they do for Themed Seasons along with QoL changes and maybe a few more balance patches to add more viable builds to the game.

11/29/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Thorodan
How to get the Diablo series back to what it was, why everyone wanted to play it?
Get Brev n his buddies like Matt-U n Co. back at blizzard, even temporarily, to make Diablo 4.


They are too busy doing other things to do that. Also if they did make D4 they are not gonna make it a prettier D2 clone, because if they did I wouldn't play it. I want a true improvement over D2 and D3. The combining of the improvement of the best features of D2 and D3 is what D4 needs. That way you have a game that both Blizz North and Blizz Irvine fans can love and enjoy playing together.

I know that it doesn't take them to do it. There are no doubt other talented people out there that can do just that if Blizz hires the right people and gives them the right pillars to design the game by. Along with the right amount of freedom to do what is needed.
11/29/2018 10:05 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
But that is because sets were intentionally designed that way. It is not necessarily the fault of these ultimates by themself.


It is the fault of the "ultimates" because you need an absurd level of cooldown reduction to use them at a decent rate since it's a long cooldown.

But they are not supposed to be used at a decent rate, or too often. That is the whole point of them.

11/29/2018 10:05 AMPosted by GeminiEclips
It pigeon holes the combat into "save the ultimate for bosses" since it's a big power boost or have so much cdr that you can use it at a decent rate.

And then bosses become trivial with such a power boost. Get rid of "ultimates" and have just regular use abilities, and that problem goes away.

I don't have the feeling that ultimates in D3 at a base level are so powerful that elites become trivial. Yes, you certainly gain a powerboost, but it is not big that you can simply steamroll through elites like they are nothing when you activate the ult, at least when you level a new char from 1-70 - which I quite often do just for the fun of it btw - these ultimates are not so powerful in the early game (that means from 1-70 without overpowered sets and legendaries) that elites become trivial.

At a base level, skills in D3 are somewhat balanced (with a few exceptions), it is just that through legendaries and sets, ultimates become so overly powerful.
11/29/2018 05:52 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
it to create some sort of rotation (which also isn't necessarily a bad thing), but it certainly wasn't "for no reason".


Use the same rotation is awful. Is like spam the same skill

The ideal is to use different skills in different situations.

I am all for creating different skills that are better in different situations, but I also would like to see other skills that have cooldowns or charges. You know, I want both: different spammable skills that are better in different situations + other skills that have cooldowns. You only want one of these things...

11/29/2018 05:52 AMPosted by L0rdV1ct0r
And what game sits at #1? Dota2... and DotA2 has what? Cooldowns. And WC3 had heroes which also used cooldowns as well.


Competitive games and RPG's are two different things.

You just invalidated your own argument about that cooldowns are bad, because they break immersion, because even the two most played shooters on steam (Counterstrike & Rainbow Six Siege) don't use immersion breaking mechanics like health regeneration...

Counterstrike & RSS are both not RPG's, but competitive games, while the example that I gave is more closer to shooter RPG's and they use immersion breaking mechanics like health regeneration and these mechanics made these games overall better.

So you sort of proved my point with that...

11/28/2018 07:05 PMPosted by clueso
It is not "very different". It just is a global cooldown instead of a skill specific cooldown.


Is not exactly a "global cooldown", basically is a way to simulate the "action per rounds" from previous games into a real time battle system. On turn based combat(yes, M&M VI-VIII have both options), the recover time shows how much actions per turns your character can take.

And still, Diablo 2 would be so much better if you had skill specific cooldowns instead of casting delay.

11/28/2018 07:05 PMPosted by clueso
Anyway, playing a fire sorc in D2 would have felt so much better if Meteor had a 6-10 second cooldown instead of just 1.2 seconds


There are better ways to "fix" it.
A ) Make meteor deal fire + physical damage instead of only fire so it will be better against fire immune creatures, but not better than fireball in any situation
B ) Add a casting delay
C ) An little casting time
(...)

Or you can force the player to not use the meteor for a arbitrary amount of time.

The duration of a cooldown is not arbitrary. Time is a resource and therefore the skill gets stronger the longer the cooldown gets, so the cooldown gets factored into power of the skill.

Besides that, there can and should be ways to reduce cooldowns, for example with an attribute system, items, passive skills, enchantments on items and the skill itself (for example when you level up a skill, you can decide how to make it better, either by putting the point into increasing its damage, its AoE, reducing its resource cost, reducing its cooldown, or in the cast of Meteor increasing the duration of the ground fire or maybe even to turn the meteor into a comet that freezes enemies etc, etc).

So since you can and should be able to adjust the cooldown, it is not arbitrary as you claim. And besides that, the duration of the casting delay is also arbitrarily chosen. I mean they could have made the casting delay for meteor longer, which would have felt much better, but they didn't...

They are used in games because if they weren't the resource cost would be so high that you could very well be spending your entire time generating resources to use that big skill again.


And what is the problem? If i wanna spend all of my power into a single skill, what is the problem?

Because in ARPG's like Diablo, you can regenerate your resource so fast that the power of skills like for example Earthquake or Call of the Ancients had to be turned down so much, that they aren't special super strong abilities anymore...
11/29/2018 11:44 AMPosted by clueso
I don't have the feeling that ultimates in D3 at a base level are so powerful that elites become trivial.


Wrath of the Berserker is:

10% crit chance, 25% attack speed, and a rune that gives 50% damage increase or 50% damage reduction. Also immunity to disables.

Vengeance is:

40% damage increase, multiple extra attacks, and a rune that gives 10 hatred per second (for spam) or 50% damage reduction. Also immunity to disables.

Akarat's champion is:

35% damage increase, 5 wrath per second (for spam), and a rune for either 15% attack speed, more wrath, or 150% armor. Also immunity to disables.

Not so powerful ... we must be playing a different game. Or you're just intentionally downplaying obviously strong abilities. Especially since some of the difficulty of elites is the effects they do. Gaining immunity to stuns, to freeze, to knockback, to fear, to slow, it's a strong effect.
Clueso, since you mentioned FPS, what if fallout new vegas instead of having an expensive an heavy(for hardcore mode) .50 BMG explosive, decided to limit how much explosive ammo you can trow by cooldown. It will not be awful? Will not reduce the player freedom and immersion???

Or on Dragon's Dogma, if the skill that i mentioned(Sacrificial Bolt) instead of dealing massive amount of damage but having an insane long casting time and requiring an pawn sacrifice, have an cooldown. It will not be worst?

On Diablo 2, as a necro i use bone spear against line, bone spirit against single target, clay golem against bosses, fire golem to lure enemies, revived mobs to be meatshields, tons of different curses and none of this skills have cooldown. I don't spam the same skill.

As if spam the same skill is a problem but spam the same rotation is not...

Your example of meteor, it can be easily fixed if the meteor deals initially physical damage then fire damage over time in 10 seconds(or any other suggestion that i made), that way, will be more worth in therms of DPS to switch to a fireball.

You are encouraging the player to switch to another skill, not forcing him.

------------------------------------------

11/29/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Dmoney
There was a route you could take. But at the end of the day it was all the same cookie cutter builds.


No, there are not. I created a lot of variations between bone necro and there are dozens of different paladin builds. Everyone can beat the game.

11/29/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Dmoney
But they were all meh at the end of the day.


No, rares was the most common type of gear to be wearing before LOD. LOD with runewords destroyed the gearing ballance.

But even after LOD, before end game D2 is pretty good in therms of gearing. Sometimes you don't know if casting time, hit recovery or whatever you should use. D3 is only maximize your weapon damage...

11/29/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Orrion
Hell, you love Grim Dawn too. Guess what builds in that game do? They break the resource system.


Grim Dawn is a average game IMO without mods and a good game with mods.

11/29/2018 11:44 AMPosted by clueso
At a base level, skills in D3 are somewhat balanced (with a few exceptions), it is just that through legendaries and sets, ultimates become so overly powerful.


Well, considering that every skill is a %WD on D3, of course they are easy to be balanced. Imagine if D2 have only barbarian class and the max skill level is 1... Of course will be much more balanced than the current D2, but will be a better game?
People love to drive, but not everyone want to work on their engine.
POE is a game for those love to work on engine
Diablo 3 is a game for people love to drive.

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