RoRG = Build Diversity

General Discussion
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It doesn't actually make any sense for season theme to cross over. Make a seasonal character if you wish to participate in the limited event. No player is excluded.
11/21/2018 09:28 AMPosted by Aulus
11/21/2018 09:14 AMPosted by zipppy
This is a temporary boost to power; why would they release this to non-seasonal characters? People would reach GRs that they are impossible once the buff is gone.
Right, meaning seasonal players will return to NS after the season with more powerful gems than is currently possible to achieve.

It's discrimination, pure and simple.


At the levels we’re talking about I seriously doubt the Granduer change allows more than a 2 level GR increase at best.

That’s not anything to get worked up about. Bots and exploiters will still be further along than that and still provide greater advantages.

You’re getting worked up about a pothole outside of town after an earthquake already buried the town itself.
11/21/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Zeddicuus
11/21/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Vdizzle
Okay, so now NS players don't get to experiment with as creative builds as Season because of the RoRG buff... You're not proving your point.


My point is it seems like people are getting worked up about something that isn't exactly a big deal. It's only temporary power creep at this time, it's not something like new legendary gear with new affixes for skills that haven't had a legendary item yet that is season only like D2 used to do with new runewords. That was my point.

It's bigger numbers. Almost nothing besides the numbers have changed with this season theme. The possibilities of how they can potentially alter seasons is what is interesting, that's what is nice. Power creep in this game has been useless every time they did it. Making my GR number go up a few levels without improving my skill is not new content. If they can find a way to use this capability in a creative, non-powercreeping fashion, it would be more likely to be used in nonseason.

This experiment could lead to other things if they're willing to be creative instead of lazy. That is my other point. This concept would be nice as it can change up gameplay in new ways.


Then why is it not not being included into Non-Season? The only argument I've seen from others is a case of have and have nots. Season is happy because they get something new and shiny and can hold it over Non-Season players.

The only halfway reasonable answer is the point I made about potentially unobtainable gem levels after the buff ends. Leaderboards rankings are moot since both Season and Non-Season boards can be locked after the buff ends.
I for one do like that this RoRG buff is limited to season. The reason is simple, it gives meaning to the definition of "Seasonal theme".

S14 and S15 themes didn't feel seasonal as NS has them too. Being merely double this and that meant they were not creative either. A proper theme should throw a curveball into the gameplay mechanics, mixing things up a bit. Because of this limiting it to season should be a no-brainer.

NS is permanent progress, as such mechanics should stay normal. Seasons are limited periods where creative themes can be experimented with.

Overall the RoRG buff is a step in the right direction. Now just get even more creative.
11/21/2018 10:13 AMPosted by ragman
It doesn't actually make any sense for season theme to cross over. Make a seasonal character if you wish to participate in the limited event. No player is excluded.


We already had this with season only legendaries when a new, powerful legendary was created every season. It didn't go over well with the community so they got rid of it. We've come full circle now.

Objectively yes, everyone can participate in season and nobody will be left behind. But we're emotional creatures and a decent part of the community enjoys playing in that one particular game mode called Non-Season, so this decision comes across as alienating.
11/21/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Kaelos
11/21/2018 09:17 AMPosted by DonMartin
...

Another guy who cries about seasonal specials.

No wonder we don't get seasonal items anymore. What's the point of seasons if there is nothing different about it?

What a crybaby. God forbid you try something out of your little secluded comfort zone.
I find it terrible mechanic to give new items only for seasons. It makes much stuff messy all build guides will be updated for season specific versions but if someone doesn't play season then what? Guides will be useless for them so he is forced to play season


stick to the non season version of the guide then !!!!! Anyone who makes guide will put the season# in their guide as has been for all seasons, especially when said builds have been changed or modified !!!
11/21/2018 10:05 AMPosted by DieHard
NS players also want the fresh change of experimentation without having to start a new. Again, time constraints of life hinder most NS players.


Alright, this makes sense to me. I didn't consider it from this angle. Thank you for that.

Personally, I don't understand why they didn't put it in NS at this time. My guess would be that the temporary powercreep would mess up the leaderboards for NS. If only they started this theme in a way that didn't involve power creep.
11/21/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Vdizzle
11/21/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Zeddicuus
the RoRG buff isn't a huge deal. It effectively frees up 1 ring slot or your jewelry cube slot as a lot of players use this ring anyways. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing else about the build really changes besides that 1 ring/cube slot. It's interesting as it allows a bit more leeway on rings used, but not a huge deal over all. This is not a huge game altering change as you can't stack this buff with the RoRG itself or the cubed power. It's a nice start to changes to season themes. Not awesome, but nice.

It's nice to see them think of things beyond the "take (reward) and double it!" they had going for the last 2 seasons. Hopefully they do something truly creative with this and give us something even more interesting.


You must not understand synergy. One extra slot is huge for damage and mitigation. I already D3 plannered a Tals build that's 50%+ above its NS counterpart in damage.


Nonsense. 1 slot will not equal an overall 50% increase in damage.

11/21/2018 10:05 AMPosted by DieHard
NS players also want the fresh change of experimentation without having to start a new. Again, time constraints of life hinder most NS players.


Get over yourself. It takes hardly any time at all in D3 to get a character up to the point where they could use this.

Further, the Granduer theme is not some huge experiment. Most set builds will simply drop a set item in favor of a rather obvious replacement - IE Tal Rasha belt and The Witching hour for solo and the amulet and Unity in favor of Endless Walk for multiplayer. I suspect Condemn will drop the amulet and do the same, or sub Hellfire. Just guessing for now.

But Hell, we’ll know what builds will drop what in favor of what before the Season even begins.

The only major experimentation will be with LoN, and THAT is already available in non-Seasons.
11/19/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Kukiri
I'm not sure what it is about Americans and this phrase. They never, ever, say it correctly.


I am American and I approve this message.

Seriously though, it bothers me how often I hear "I could care less". Well then do it Bill go care less.
11/21/2018 10:12 AMPosted by Melisandre
11/21/2018 10:05 AMPosted by DieHard
NS players also want the fresh change of experimentation without having to start a new. Again, time constraints of life hinder most NS players.


don't bring the bull!@#$ time constraints issue. It literally about 40 minutes to reach 70 when a new season rolls over. completing seasons journey upto chapter 4 probably will take another 30 minutes. In little above an hour you get level 70 with a full set. If you cant even bother to do that, then seriously don't make a big deal about this buff, it will do jack %^-* for you in ns. Theorycrafting can be done in seasons as well.


Bro, you are a flat out liar, ”40 minutes", yeah right. ROFL!
Nonsense. 1 slot will not equal an overall 50% increase in damage.


With this particular build, yes. It may even be more than that. It's looking very promising on paper, we'll see if it works on PTR. With requirements and restrictions for the build it cannot be created on NS, that's the stickler. On NS if you try and cube RoRG then you cannot run Black Hole + 30% strongarms which is a crazy amount of damage. But I wouldn't expect you to understand since I don't think you actually play the game.
11/21/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Vdizzle
Nonsense. 1 slot will not equal an overall 50% increase in damage.


With this particular build, yes. It may even be more than that. It's looking very promising on paper, we'll see if it works on PTR. With requirements and restrictions for the build it cannot be created on NS, that's the stickler. On NS if you try and cube RoRG then you cannot run Black Hole + 30% strongarms which is a crazy amount of damage. But I wouldn't expect you to understand since I don't think you actually play the game.
I have to see the planner for this build of yours.
11/21/2018 10:11 AMPosted by Kaelos
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Another guy who cries about seasonal specials.

No wonder we don't get seasonal items anymore. What's the point of seasons if there is nothing different about it?

What a crybaby. God forbid you try something out of your little secluded comfort zone.
I find it terrible mechanic to give new items only for seasons. It makes much stuff messy all build guides will be updated for season specific versions but if someone doesn't play season then what? Guides will be useless for them so he is forced to play season


Oh, please.

It’ll be rather easy for most guides to put a small thing at the end and say “if you aren’t playing Seasons, add your 6th set item back in and use this other item instead.”

I mean, the creators of the guides will all be starting out with the regular build and modifying it accordingly, so it won’t be difficult to note the build without that modification.
This is literally a function that changes up the gameplay, people should have nonseason to opt out of it if they so choose. Putting it in nonseason would be idiotic because when they turn it off all of a sudden people's builds wouldn't work. So no. No 1000 times over.

With that being said, this is not some groundbreaking change that's going to fundamentally alter the D3 playing field. At best it's going to open up one slot in builds, and maybe possibly making those mix set builds a bit better. Even then, I doubt it. This is not a change to get worked up over. It's a fun little gimmick for one season, that's all. It's better than double things for sure, but it's not going to dramatically change the leaderboards. Now, if they made the seasonal that it reduced the required amount of legendaries by TWO or THREE, then that would be a huge game changer. Honestly, it would be kind of fun to have a season like that which is just utterly insane, specifically because it would be just for that season and not a permanent thing.
Incentives are not alienating. They encourage a particular action. In this case the action is to play seasons. If you want the incentive you take part in the action. It is as simple as that. The idea that you should get the incentive without taking part in the action is called entitlement. There are pros and cons to both seasonal and non-seasonal. Do seasonal players feel entitled to use their accumulated paragon and gear like non-seasonal players? Bottom line is it is your choice to take part or not based on what you prefer. If you prefer to keep using all your stuff then don't play seasons. If you prefer the season perks at the cost of having to start over then play seasons. Quit crying that you want what the other people have without paying the cost.
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With this particular build, yes. It may even be more than that. It's looking very promising on paper, we'll see if it works on PTR. With requirements and restrictions for the build it cannot be created on NS, that's the stickler. On NS if you try and cube RoRG then you cannot run Black Hole + 30% strongarms which is a crazy amount of damage. But I wouldn't expect you to understand since I don't think you actually play the game.
I have to see the planner for this build of yours.


Once I finalize it and test it I'll be sharing it on the Wizard forums. It may just be a pipe dream but it looks good on paper. It may even be able to drop APoC on offhand for an additional 8% elite damage. Or it may not work at all, we will see.

Also if Tals can pull off this star impact build it will free up the group to where they won't need an elite to ignite for max damage. That's huge in terms of GR efficiency.
11/21/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Brogoth
With that being said, this is not some groundbreaking change that's going to fundamentally alter the D3 playing field

This simply isn't something that can heavily alter current builds. Some will get to use Unity or COE where they could not before, others will get a free armor slot to change out a set item with a supporting item. Overall though it will provide something like 30% strongarms, or 25% net from COE. Its not something that will be game changing by any means.
11/21/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Vdizzle
And now it discourages NS players from continuing to play since we don't get to experience the buff. Again, NS players stay on Non-Season for a reason, trying to coax us over with this Seasonal buff is in poor taste.


NS will be the same paragon slog that you purport to love now. Your secluded NS shelter isn't effected at all by other people getting fun things.

Non-issue.
11/21/2018 09:48 AMPosted by Vdizzle
11/21/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Thphlstr
I know this will get hate, but I like that they have added back a “season only” thing, like in the days of old.
It encouraged you to actually play season. I don’t see the issue, and actually ‘hope’ they will continue this trend in future seasons again.


And now it discourages NS players from continuing to play since we don't get to experience the buff. Again, NS players stay on Non-Season for a reason, trying to coax us over with this Seasonal buff is in poor taste.


Why does it discourage you? The early Season-only legendary items didn’t discourage me. In fact, I was in favor of it because it meant the game would be getting new gear frequently. It’s not a coincidence that D3 got less items and got less frequent updates after they stopped doing Seasonal legendary items.

It’s not like this non-Seasonal players from doing whatever it was they were doing beforehand.

Seasons have always existed to coax as many people into it as possible. That’s why they were in D2, that’s why PoE does its Leagues, and it’s why Seasons were added to D3. It’s just that for whatever stupid reason D3 stopped using them that way.

As a mostly non-Seasonal player, I LOVE that they’re starting to do this kind of thing again. It hopefully means they’ll be back to doing things every Season. That means more overall game changes, and the majority of those will be for non-Seasons as well.

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