D2 LOD Build Diversity Illusion (GR Testing)

General Discussion
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode.

Have fun with your build variety in Diablo 2. Its just an illusion because of existing PvP builds.

Fun fact: I had to add infinty merc for GR 120 on the Sorc, Javazon, Assassin, etc. cause of light immuns on GR 120. Foh Paladin couldn't kill the mobs at density of 55% quick enough to even compete in the "endgame"-viable buildrace. I stopped at 12:30 and 60% done.

I yet haven't made a video to it, but maybe I will in the winter time if anyone is interested.

Quick Note: I used only dps items (instead of Maras I used 3x Skill for specific class), instead of raven I used sojs, ... for skill dependet classes. Rest used jewels perfect stats etc.

The Bowazon I tried many different things, even a full inventory of 100 PSN sc's but couldn't compete (to slow)
Damn nostalgia ;)
They were never "complex" they had "depth". I dont know where this complex !@#$ is coming from. Skilling a point into a tree was never considered complex. Solving a rubix cube is complex, building a character in interesting ways is depth.

I didnt read your entire post i mainly skimmed it because of the condescending way you wrote it but you obviously didnt play D2 that long. Builds were constantly patched and evolving. Over the course of D2's history there were many many builds.

Also, PvP and trading was end game in D2. It wasn't a perfect endgame but it was better than grinding grifts endlessly.
11/22/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ovian
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode
One of the reasons D1 was such a hit was its one of the most pick up and play RPGs of all time. I could get my Gram to understand how to play D1 but pick up and play dose not mean the game has to be shallow.
Diablo 1 was unique at the time it was released. That gave it a huge bonus from the player base.
You missed the end game of making more characters to go through the game again to try different builds.

D3 there isn't any point in making more then a few characters because you can just change your build without consequence.

Also forgot about Modding like Median XL something that Diablo 3 will never get when it comes to new enemies, classes, levels, itemization and so on.
The druid was fun and then you get to hell and your tornados do almost nothing to monsters in a 8 players game... you become a teleporting life buff for your teammates.
11/22/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ovian
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode.

Have fun with your build variety in Diablo 2. Its just an illusion because of existing PvP builds.

Fun fact: I had to add infinty merc for GR 120 on the Sorc, Javazon, Assassin, etc. cause of light immuns on GR 120. Foh Paladin couldn't kill the mobs at density of 55% quick enough to even compete in the "endgame"-viable buildrace. I stopped at 12:30 and 60% done.

I yet haven't made a video to it, but maybe I will in the winter time if anyone is interested.

Quick Note: I used only dps items (instead of Maras I used 3x Skill for specific class), instead of raven I used sojs, ... for skill dependet classes. Rest used jewels perfect stats etc.

The Bowazon I tried many different things, even a full inventory of 100 PSN sc's but couldn't compete (to slow)


You dont get it bud, not in the slightest.
11/22/2018 11:42 AMPosted by DeMasked
You missed the end game of making more characters to go through the game again to try different builds.


Guess what seasonal players do for 15 seasons now ;)

I wouldn't even say that how blizz handles skill reassignment is fully bad. At least you can't gimp a char. Other ARPGs like GD or PoE also allow a respec so its not just D3.
The druid was fun and then you get to hell and your tornados do almost nothing to monsters in a 8 players game... you become a teleporting life buff for your teammates.

lol a wind druid ?

No way !
I would say that Diablo 2 LoD wasn't balanced well when it came to certain skills and how they scaled into later difficulties. However for it's time the few negatives were heavily outweighed by the positives and any future game of the Diablo franchise could've taken what was there and improved upon it.
11/22/2018 11:46 AMPosted by AlKatiba
11/22/2018 11:42 AMPosted by DeMasked
You missed the end game of making more characters to go through the game again to try different builds.


Guess what seasonal players do for 15 seasons now ;)

I wouldn't even say that how blizz handles skill reassignment is fully bad. At least you can't gimp a char. Other ARPGs like GD or PoE also allow a respec so its not just D3.

And you can respec in D2 too.
11/22/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Zorak
The druid was fun and then you get to hell and your tornados do almost nothing to monsters in a 8 players game... you become a teleporting life buff for your teammates.

lol a wind druid ?

No way !


Yeah a wind druid... it's slow... the monsters are dead before your tornado reach them. A hammer or a light sorc just rocks in 8 players games, but the druid is almost useless
Either, way I actually just did those tests for people who haven't played Diablo 2 LoD and the people who keep claiming Diablo II LoD has so many variety viable builds.

Yes, not complexive builds.

It does not have many as many people say.
And the important part is: Diablo 2 LoD has an endgame, its finity/ stale. You have UT, DC, Hell Mode. Where in Diablo 3 the game is infinity, has no endgame. You play GR 70 but the game goes beyond it (GR100+) which cuts out builds that can't reach it. If Diablo 3 had max. GR 80 you would suddenly have 100 more builds.
And that is basically the thing people do not understand.
Diablo 3 will always have the perfect 2-3 builds as long as it has an infinity mode that squeezes every dmg point out of your hero.

I'm just trying to say that most people should just focus on GR 70 and try many fun builds that are actually "endgame" duo to GR 70 unlocking primals. GR 70 should be the last thing on most peoples minds and not GR 120+ for only 1 build. Yes it will get boring if you play like that.
Its like you never played d2 classic version 1.09 when there was so many viable builds and a real hunt for the best gear (better gear than the duped rares).
Take me back to a world of blood golems and iron maiden please
11/22/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ovian
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode.

Have fun with your build variety in Diablo 2. Its just an illusion because of existing PvP builds.

Fun fact: I had to add infinty merc for GR 120 on the Sorc, Javazon, Assassin, etc. cause of light immuns on GR 120. Foh Paladin couldn't kill the mobs at density of 55% quick enough to even compete in the "endgame"-viable buildrace. I stopped at 12:30 and 60% done.

I yet haven't made a video to it, but maybe I will in the winter time if anyone is interested.

Quick Note: I used only dps items (instead of Maras I used 3x Skill for specific class), instead of raven I used sojs, ... for skill dependet classes. Rest used jewels perfect stats etc.

The Bowazon I tried many different things, even a full inventory of 100 PSN sc's but couldn't compete (to slow)


They're all to full of memberberries to care. Nostalgia and all that.

D2 had it's metas for end game just like d3 and not just any build could let you run hell baal. And hell Baal was what you did most.
Diablo 2 started it all. It's acceptable. What's not acceptable is for Diablo 3 to have less build diversity than a Lego game
11/22/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Pestilence
11/22/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ovian
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode.

Have fun with your build variety in Diablo 2. Its just an illusion because of existing PvP builds.

Fun fact: I had to add infinty merc for GR 120 on the Sorc, Javazon, Assassin, etc. cause of light immuns on GR 120. Foh Paladin couldn't kill the mobs at density of 55% quick enough to even compete in the "endgame"-viable buildrace. I stopped at 12:30 and 60% done.

I yet haven't made a video to it, but maybe I will in the winter time if anyone is interested.

Quick Note: I used only dps items (instead of Maras I used 3x Skill for specific class), instead of raven I used sojs, ... for skill dependet classes. Rest used jewels perfect stats etc.

The Bowazon I tried many different things, even a full inventory of 100 PSN sc's but couldn't compete (to slow)


They're all to full of memberberries to care. Nostalgia and all that.

D2 had it's metas for end game just like d3 and not just any build could let you run hell baal. And hell Baal was what you did most.


In short, D2's ladder season pretty much always started like this : First people made a sorc (meteorb or pure cold), then a hammerdin and then a smiter and then whatever you want to play (which would always be worst than your hammerdin anyway)
11/22/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ovian
Just saying, but here are the facts:

Diablo II LoD Endgame was Hell Baal, UT, maybe DC, CS Runs, MF Runs.

Diablo III Endgame is T13 Speedruns (equ. to Hell Baal, MF Runs, CS Runs), GR 70 (equ. to DC) and I wouldn't count it to endgame, but for the sake of UT Endgame in D2 LOD I'd say T(whatever) UT's for Hellfire Amu.

Either way guys, Diablo 2 had no real endgame.

If you guys would accept the FACT that D3 Endgame = GR70 and not GR100+ you COULD play a lot more builds.

I'm saying this, because people claim Diablo II had so many builds. Yes, but most of them were not viable for the CONTENT the game had.

To explain this more accurately:
Adding an infinity mode into a game that strives for build diversity is bottlenecking the game. Add GR's into Diablo II LoD and you will find 2-3 VALID builds per class, heck, wait... you will only find these two builds:

Second best build:
2) It would be the hammerdin, and it would not be a FUN Hammerdin. It would be a Hammerdin with fast running speed and NOT ENIGMA. You would have a friggin' boring hammerdin that can go up in GR's but use Enigma for Speedruns (Baal Runs, CS runs)

The best:
1) It would be a Light Sorc and nothing else. A light sorc with (BIS Spam:
Eshu 5/5 Die, Griffon 5/5 Die, Coh/ Viper, depending on GR lvl, Arach, SOJ,SOJ, Sands Eth 15/15, Magefist /froPP., Maras (Res 30) for higher GR's or 3 Light 100 Life Amu (lower GR'S), Torch 20/20, Anni 20/20/10, Light Sks 45 L x9, 10x sc's 2str 20L)

Rest non exist. Others could not compete. I counted the damage and sourced through a quick offline hero maker.

Based on GR 120 (D2 Stats, Health etc.)
Hammerding, perfect gear, would need WITH 12k Hammer DMG (using Enigma) 03:44 minutes- tested cold plains and a stale mob spawner with time reduce per kill

Same thing in Cold Plains with Light Sorc using Chain Lighting 02:44 perfect gear, assuming mob density is LOW.

Smiter, Trap Assasin (13k Trap DMG), Druid (5.3k Tornado Dmg, Enigma/ Hoto etc.), are ALL less than 5:00 Minutes assuming mob density is LOW.

If mob density is set to low (67.8%, how it is in Diablo 2 LoD besides CS) I reach 02:12 with Light Sorc, rest still stays under 04:30 minutes.

Its it.

2 Good Builds in Diablo 2 LoD.

Change mob density to 85.3% (mid) and you get quicker GR's done)

ALL GR'S I tested were made in COLD PLAINS ACT I using SPAWN CREC 2.1 (GR Simulator for D2) in OFFLINE Mode.

Have fun with your build variety in Diablo 2. Its just an illusion because of existing PvP builds.

Fun fact: I had to add infinty merc for GR 120 on the Sorc, Javazon, Assassin, etc. cause of light immuns on GR 120. Foh Paladin couldn't kill the mobs at density of 55% quick enough to even compete in the "endgame"-viable buildrace. I stopped at 12:30 and 60% done.

I yet haven't made a video to it, but maybe I will in the winter time if anyone is interested.

Quick Note: I used only dps items (instead of Maras I used 3x Skill for specific class), instead of raven I used sojs, ... for skill dependet classes. Rest used jewels perfect stats etc.

The Bowazon I tried many different things, even a full inventory of 100 PSN sc's but couldn't compete (to slow)


Hell unless you build a character totally randomly with !@#$ that make no sense.... Yeah nothing would be viable.

My Phishymancer with ''Enigma'' and a few more things and it clear just has good. Corpse explosion is kinda awesome.

Light sorceress aren't the fastest at hell cow though.

Hammerdin.... Yeah that build is ridiculous. Hence why there is people that say if you want to enjoy your time. 1: Don't join bot baal run. 2: Play something else than hammerdin.

Javazon is pretty nice

Barbarian, wielding 2 2-hander with ''Breath of the dying'' is quite crazy fun too (But yeah ZOD is crap to farm...). But otherwise there is more runeword choice.

Spin2Win Barb always fun once in a while

Druid is just %^-*ing awesome in itself. Really love his elementals skills. Didn't play him much as a summoner to be honest.

So honestly we had a lot of variety avalaible plus how many classes there was. There is alway a class that is stronger than another. It doesn't make all of them useless. And to be honest that depend on your skill to do thing fast. If you're slow to begin with, other *cough* ''weaker'' *cough* classes could clear faster than you does. (Im pretty sure not everybody get perfect time like you told us... But hey, as long you have fun it doesn't really matter.)

I hadn't played D2 for 15 years until a few months ago and the game has just so much more depth. I can still die even with some awesome gear if i don't pay attention(Hell actually im stuck at Act 4 in hell until i get more resistances on my necro on D2. While I've never been stuck anywhere in D3...). While on D3, dying is barely happening anymore and im sure more peoples could tell you more. (The game being darker than D3 is a plus in itself too)
Sorry but it wasn't an illusion, you are just dumb because you don't even know what build diversity means.

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