[PTR Monk] Inna set OP / Others same strong

PTR Feedback 2.6.4
Hi all. We have never seen the diversity of monk's builds in the top of Leaderboard.
I dont want to have any set dominated. My goal is to reach the balance between monk's sets.

1) Inna set is overpowered and beats other respective sets.
We can use Inna set with every skill and it actually beats respective sets with same skill.
Inna set give you 15 000% multiplier to your damage over 9000% (Uliana) and 6000% (Raiment) .

PTR note: 130 Great rift cleared right now using Inna set 6x. This is the highest result between all classes and so far from the best.

How to fix Inna set to make others set viable?
Inna's Mantra
The (6) Set bonus should be decreased from 1500% to 1000%


2) According to my math Raiment, Uliana and SWK sets have approximately equal potential and can compete with each other.

Calculated Potential for every monk's build (with math):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTPiNihyMm7fBHqRc6jq8PwhLQQLMa_ZVfg3-beNv9TCnUkSas4FzxNzFqHWgsCaINjlQ02ff5o79Ii/pubhtml#
SWK WOL х6 Highest = 124. Multiplier = (15100/10100%). Potential ~ 127
Uliana х6 Highest = 117. Multiplier = (9100/2200%). Potential ~ 126
Raiment х6 Highest = 109. Multiplier = (500/200 × 6100/1400%). Potential ~ 125

PTR note: Noone push using SWK x6 / Uliana x6 / Raiment x6.

P.s. We need nerf Inna's set to see competition between others. With respect to PTR Developer's team and other classes.
Compared to condemn innas isn't that much stronger, that's a 130 with the rorg buff. Condemn is at 129 on live, and maybe that would be 130 with a free rorg. A better solution could be to buff the other sets but also to switch raiment 2 set bonus with its 4 set bonus, but that would make it harder at the beginning of a season when you only have 2 pieces of raiment, and it would kill this specific build making raiment the generator build. I like the inna WoL build, it feels a lot tankier than swk, swk could probably be put to 2000 and have 60% dr. Ulianas and raiment could use a litte bigger buff as well.
the problem with swk could be a bug, i see higher dmg values as expected but they do not appear as often as i strike so all in all there is no difference between live swk wol and ptr (did live 111, ptr with rorg cubed 110 in almost same time). saw it on a fire coe rota, first hit was about 10% rg life and until.holy phase.nothing happened although hitting boss.
inna wol makes fun and is indeed tankier but it seems ok.dmg.wise. its potential is higher since the use of rabid strike gives a x2 multiplier during epi phase, tested that yesterday, clone appears.

i'd think u,r and swk set should be specialized sets for a few builds and inna should be an overall dmg buff with nice def but less dmg than specialized sets suffer, that means swk, r and u need some buff. the interesting fact about inna is that it can be combined with so many other buffs for the gen: shen, r2, traveler. only wizz has.similar buffs and seems to be.much stronger in grp esp. r2i6 compared to pure r6 gen multiplier reads as follows:
76(inna x5 boost) x2 digger in cube x2 traveler x shen boost
r6 is 61x the other boosts above, so r6 bonus needs a buff to at least 7500% to be on similar dmg output
OR we can buff
Depth Diggers - Primary skills deal 200-300 additional damage
11/23/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Brad
Compared to condemn innas isn't that much stronger, that's a 130 with the rorg buff. Condemn is at 129 on live, and maybe that would be 130 with a free rorg. A better solution could be to buff the other sets but also to switch raiment 2 set bonus with its 4 set bonus, but that would make it harder at the beginning of a season when you only have 2 pieces of raiment, and it would kill this specific build making raiment the generator build. I like the inna WoL build, it feels a lot tankier than swk, swk could probably be put to 2000 and have 60% dr. Ulianas and raiment could use a litte bigger buff as well.


Inna, even without the buff RoRG, is stronger than condemn.
The problem with Inna is, whats the purpose of the build?

Why is it that you can Gen, LTK, and WoL? and other builds

We have a Gen build (R6) and a WOL/LTK (SwK)

Inna needs to be a modified slightly for a clear goal.
11/24/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Faux
The problem with Inna is, whats the purpose of the build?

Why is it that you can Gen, LTK, and WoL? and other builds

We have a Gen build (R6) and a WOL/LTK (SwK)

Inna needs to be a modified slightly for a clear goal.


Innas purpose is too look pretty, and now its the swiss army knife of all builds.

In an odd way this is good, now monks only need to keep innas set and they can always salvage ANY of the other sets, nice clean stash, with how strong innas set is they could potentially just remove all the other monk sets from the game.
11/24/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Faux
Inna needs to be a modified slightly for a clear goal.


Its surprising this comment comes from what appears to be an experienced monk. Inna is the global multiplier set for monk, which means the current state of it working at everything is working as intended.

Inna clear goal is to buff EVERYTHING, however it should not preventing other sets from performing. Inna been primarily a zdps set for 3+ years deserves a spot light.

Uliana and Raiment needs rework to meet current GR requirements.

Asking for Inna nerf will balance set playability but might cost monk top solo clear capability.

Gen set should be Raiment by default, however Raiment is an obsolete set as it doesn't have in built mitigation. Its mitigation source is spirit guard / unity. Unlike Raekor which also dont have inbuilt mitigation, band of might is 80% mitigation for 8s, spirit guard is 60% for 3s. Raekor has the option for more defensive setups (esoteric) with 2 dps leg gen setups because wp% of fire hota is 640%, fire gen is 255% wp from base. You need 3 dps gems for Gen monk. Inna gen provide the mitigation needed for gen builds which raiment lacks. Marwan is 6k+ paragon. Its unlikely the armor provided by this paragon level is common for everyone. Even with 6k+ paragon, R6 feels squishy in 120 let alone in 130 GR.

Uliana EP is very different from Inna EP, these are 2 builds. Inna ability has nothing to do with u6 capability. Its exactly the same with IK hota vs R6 hota, both hota are 2 different builds that plays differently.

Goal for this ptr dramatic numbers / power creep is a diversion from the recent DI negative discussions/slashing share prices. Devs benchmarking top solo for each class to be north of 130 and casual builds for each class to be +/- 120. When asking for nerf, keep in mind what capacity monk solo can clear.

It depends on what devs wants to do, the only option to maintain build diversity and 130+ solo clear is to rework u6 and R6.

11/24/2018 01:32 AMPosted by ENIAC
Inna, even without the buff RoRG, is stronger than condemn.


It is not. Condemn has cleared 130 on live as well, not the 129 perceived by majority on this forum.

2 Eu Maroder#2367 Crusader 130 14:51.266

source: http://diabloscan.com/Ladder/World/0/RiftTeam1
11/24/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Faux
Inna needs to be a modified slightly for a clear goal.


Its surprising this comment comes from what appears to be an experienced monk. Inna is the global multiplier set for monk, which means the current state of it working at everything is working as intended.

Inna clear goal is to buff EVERYTHING, however it should not preventing other sets from performing. Inna been primarily a zdps set for 3+ years deserves a spot light.

[/quote]

Thats not the what i was talking about, yes everyone knows the goal is to add damage.

You understand the purpose of what i say.

Inna EP is U6 isnt the same, DUH!, But when Inna can do SwK, LtK, Gen, better than the sets MEANT for those, that is a problem.

Even if you nerf Innas damage a bit, there still is the design flaw with it, its to generic.
11/24/2018 04:17 AMPosted by Faux
Even if you nerf Innas damage a bit, there still is the design flaw with it, its to generic.


Inna is the GLOBAL MULTIPLIER set for monk. It supposed to be GENERIC.

Same with IK, Natalya, Akkhan, Inarius, Tal Rasha. All these sets have limitation on its 6pc bonus activation, but when activated, these buffs ALL skills in its respective classes. They are too GENERIC to some degree. They are not a design flaw but intended. You can argue WD zuni is flawed because it supposed to be buffing ALL skills within WD but it is limited to pets.

IK/Nat/Inna/Tal/Zuni were original lvl 60 sets in vanila days and reworked. Their mechanic formed the basis of LON. LON were designed based on these global sets for a set buffs ALL class ALL builds and the most GENERIC set in the game.

11/24/2018 04:17 AMPosted by Faux
Inna can do SwK, LtK, Gen, better than the sets MEANT for those, that is a problem.


Yes it is and I hear you loud and clear. Global set should be behind specific set. (IK WW vs Waste WW, IK hota vs R6 hota etc) Definitely needs numbers worked on as long as another set can provide monk solo 130+ capacity. What I am worrying is blizzard prefers to take short cuts these days. If they nerf inna, its a possibility they not going to work another set and monk loses solo 130 builds.

Again don't have hopes too high for this patch. We recommend what ever we needs to but this patch is an attention diversion patch aiming to stop the down falling share prices and get attention away from DI negativity. It is NOT aimed at balancing / offer diversity to please majority of player base.
Just tried I6R2 build with real crap gear, and could get a sense of how strong it is (and fun!).

Do you think guys they'll end up nerfing Inna Set a lot, or perhaps just tweak it a bit?
I see DH at 129, Wiz at 130, and even WD at 127. Inna doesn't seem that strong TBH.
There's not enough data to conclude that it should get a 33% nerf from current numbers.
But yeah, other monk sets are lacking in comparison.
11/24/2018 06:43 AMPosted by Mercy
Just tried I6R2 build with real crap gear, and could get a sense of how strong it is (and fun!).

Do you think guys they'll end up nerfing Inna Set a lot, or perhaps just tweak it a bit?


To be honest i prefer Blizzard Buff all sets with no sense, and lets all have fun
11/24/2018 08:00 AMPosted by PaBlEiToR
11/24/2018 06:43 AMPosted by Mercy
Just tried I6R2 build with real crap gear, and could get a sense of how strong it is (and fun!).

Do you think guys they'll end up nerfing Inna Set a lot, or perhaps just tweak it a bit?


To be honest i prefer Blizzard Buff all sets with no sense, and lets all have fun


Totally agree! Leave Inna as is, and fix Uli Set, for instance. :)
11/24/2018 08:00 AMPosted by PaBlEiToR
11/24/2018 06:43 AMPosted by Mercy
Just tried I6R2 build with real crap gear, and could get a sense of how strong it is (and fun!).

Do you think guys they'll end up nerfing Inna Set a lot, or perhaps just tweak it a bit?


To be honest i prefer Blizzard Buff all sets with no sense, and lets all have fun


I completely agree with this. Let us have fun with skills not bound by the set items. I hate set items buffs. I want freedom to make more builds with legacy of nightmares set bonus. I wish that it was 750%-1000% instead of 500%.

Back to the subject. There is no need for balance you buff it and if it is fun to play we will play. If it OP but boring no one will play. It's that simple... and it applies to any business that involves customers. People will buy quality over price if it well worth it.

I hope they buff it more so we can get more freedom to play with other builds.
I think things won't stay as they are.

I'd like to see a very minor nerf to Innas, a very minor buff to SWK, and a major buff to Ulliana's.

Raiment I'm tentative about suggesting any buffs to. I think it's best for dashing-strike builds to hover around T13-strength... the power of mobility is just too good if it's also a top-tier DPS option.
11/24/2018 01:34 PMPosted by Emay
I think things won't stay as they are.

I'd like to see a very minor nerf to Innas, a very minor buff to SWK, and a major buff to Ulliana's.

Raiment I'm tentative about suggesting any buffs to. I think it's best for dashing-strike builds to hover around T13-strength... the power of mobility is just too good if it's also a top-tier DPS option.


If they changed R2 and R6 bonus so that more of the power was on the 6 piece bonus, that would reel in the power of I6 R2 a bit without affecting any other Inna based builds. I6 R2 is the main culprit when looking at monks being OP. Inna 6 in the PTR is as strong, if not stronger than SWK due to quad Fire Ally and both SWK and Inna are stronger than Uliana or Raiment.

If they change Inna 6 to 1200% per ally then Inna 6 should be about the same as SWK when you factor in the quad Fire Ally effect. Then they can buff Uliana a bit up to that level and as I said earlier swap some R2 buff onto the 6 piece buff and tweak the numbers on that set as well.
11/23/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Brad
Compared to condemn innas isn't that much stronger, that's a 130 with the rorg buff. Condemn is at 129 on live, and maybe that would be 130 with a free rorg. A better solution could be to buff the other sets but also to switch raiment 2 set bonus with its 4 set bonus, but that would make it harder at the beginning of a season when you only have 2 pieces of raiment, and it would kill this specific build making raiment the generator build. I like the inna WoL build, it feels a lot tankier than swk, swk could probably be put to 2000 and have 60% dr. Ulianas and raiment could use a litte bigger buff as well.

You kidding right? do you really think 130 is the limit for Inna's? Inna's is much stronger than condemn it can probably push near to 140.

But to be honest I rather they leave Inna's OP than nerf it since it's a set that can support multiple builds.
I personally really like the buffs to the Inna's set. I have always like the set but its been too weak to really bother with, other than for fun in low GR's. If they keep this as it is in the PTR I will most certainly be playing it next season.
If you lower Inna set buff. Everyone will just go back to SWK since its the bigger intotal multiplier. Fire ally is just an additive buff, so its not as strong as an overall total buff of say if you propose a 1200% vs 1500%. thats 3000% loss. Big loss vs additive "gain" from fire ally.
What people also dont realize. SWK is still the better set for speed t13/DB farming and lower aug gem lvling since you can run nem bracers + ingeom with that setup, as well as sages or tzo no problem. Innas u are forced to cube crudest boot no matter what, and that means u HAVE to wear pinto pride. Cant fit sages in. And ofc forced to run rorg AFTER s16 ends to beable to run Tzo helm on innas setup. Remember, we need to also think post s16 for longitivity of a set once they lose the RORG seasonal buff. So the way i see it, SWK is the dedicated farm set, Innas is your high gr push set (you can still push fairly high with SWK too if you want to, but Innas should be the set built for high GRs)

So keep innas and swk as they are (ofc if you decide to even buff SWK further, that will prolly just make everyone go back to SWK for Bell...)

NOW onto the other 2 sets. Uliana is weak. Period. Its alot stronger now and can do much better dam but it needs to be buffed to at least 12,000% or else nobody will touch it. Raiment also needs a 6 piece buff. Buff the 6000% to 12,000 or even 15,000 imo. That would make it the clear cut Gen only set from what you cry babies are whinning about (and it will be VERY squishy in 4man groups if it can even make it into group play since you would have to decide on Depth Diggers vs Cyclone shoulders for dam reduction).
I like Inna being a play any skill build set. It makes d3 fun again for a monk, something re-freshing... ofc there are still alot of limitation on items since you are forced to have to run Crudest boot in cube. Dont think anyone even mentioned if you wanna Try LTK innas, you have to decide on GNK helm vs Rivera Dancer boots. Which i would take Rivera Dancer over GNK since its a 300% mutiplicative buff vs GNK's additive 100% skill dam. You do loose out on that giant 1400% meteor you kick out which is fun to use as a range attack. But back to the point, SWK is the only set that lets you have full LTK support, vs innas you cant. So you do have to still pick and choose.

So TL;DR. Innas and SWK are in a good place. Uliana and 6 piece raiment bonus are the ones that need a buffing. No Nerfings. Keep stuff fun and flexible. Monks are tired of being only zdps in 4man parties. Though these buffs STILL dont let them be a dps in 4 man meta which is the biggest issue

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