Folks who miss the AH or RMAH. Why do you want it back?

General Discussion
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All I want is to be able to give my sword of a thousand truths to my friend.
11/23/2018 11:57 AMPosted by SirSmokes
I am fine with trading. I just want to make sure if they do put the AH back in its for the betterment of the game. If they can get a system that works I am fine with it.

Well, that train has left the station - forever. There's practically no way to introduce trading in Diablo 3 again without also removing every mechanic put in place to make up for its removal. Kadala needs to go, Kulle needs to go, the crafting made almost over-powered, even in a no-trade environment, needs to go. They would have to completely redesign the game.

That's obviously not going to happen. This discussion is entirely hypothetical in a scenario where Blizzard didn't knee-jerk and do a 180, or what perhaps could've been if it was done properly from the beginning.
11/23/2018 11:05 AMPosted by Vresiberba
11/23/2018 07:16 AMPosted by Orrion
Drop rates aren’t bad in PoE simply because there’s SO MANY ITEMS

When I say "drop rates", I don't mean "Oh look, a Blackthorne!", I of course mean something useful. When I first played Diablo 3 o̶n̶ ̶l̶a̶u̶n̶c̶h̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶ it took until act 2 on Nightmare [30+ hours] to have even one, single Legendary drop, and it was a level 8 Monster Hunter. This League in PoE, which I started just a week or two ago, took about two hours to have a Tabula Rasa drop.

That armour netted me 20 Chaos Orb in about two minutes after posting which made levelling so much more fun, and that was more than two months into the League. Obviously the trading aspect works in these kind of games, despite a reasonably high drop rate and open, unrestricted trade.


You got a Tabula Rosa in 2 hours of starting a character? That's pretty damn lucky. Most of the time for me it takes about 1-2 days before I get my first unique drop.

Though I always have a usable set of gear as I am leveling. Typically its only when I am getting to the mapping stage that I start looking to trade for uniques that would improve my build if they had not dropped for me.
11/23/2018 12:39 PMPosted by TankHunter
You got a Tabula Rosa in 2 hours of starting a character? That's pretty damn lucky.

Well, the same thing happened a couple hours into Abyss, too [I skipped Bestiary]. I also found no less than two Taste of Hate flasks before I even completed the Delve campaign, and they netted me 200c each. I agree that those flasks were somewhat lucky, but then again it goes to show that even with open trade, decent drop rates and fresh two thirds into a temp League, you can still do well in a trade environment and have a blast. It's quite frankly no less than absolutely amazing.

The joy finding these items and discovering what they were worth and realising what it would do to my build, made my day. Being given a complete Necromancer set, all six items during the first, and last time I tried Season because I crossed over an artificial barrier... that's, just, ugh. No, that i will not do again.
11/23/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Vresiberba
11/23/2018 12:39 PMPosted by TankHunter
You got a Tabula Rosa in 2 hours of starting a character? That's pretty damn lucky.

Well, the same thing happened a couple hours into Abyss, too [I skipped Bestiary]. I also found no less than two Taste of Hate flasks before I even completed the Delve campaign, and they netted me 200c each. I agree that those flasks were somewhat lucky, but then again it goes to show that even with open trade, decent drop rates and fresh two thirds into a temp League, you can still do well in a trade environment and have a blast. It's quite frankly no less than absolutely amazing.

The joy finding these items and discovering what they were worth and realising what it would do to my build, made my day. Being given a complete Necromancer set, all six items during the first, and last time I tried Season because I crossed over an artificial barrier... that's, just, ugh. No, that i will not do again.


Eh. And the last League I played - the one before Delve, with the Temple - I leveled to the low 80s without finding a single unique worth more than 5c, and that was with loot-filled Temple runs every few levels.
11/23/2018 10:42 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
11/23/2018 07:13 AMPosted by Orrion
No it doesn’t.

An AH, if it existed, would not provide anything social because it’s automated.

Even D2’s trading didn’t help anything socially. You found an item, spammed trade (or just spammed trade if you wanted to buy something), found the guy, joined a game with him, traded, and went your merry way.

In reality, D3’s trade system encourages more of a social element than open trading because you absolutely have to group up with people to utilize it. Since grouping is the most social thing to do in a game like this, having it be mandatory for trading means such a system is far better, socially, than one that doesn’t encourage grouping.

Or it would, if drop rates weren’t so high nobody needs to utilize trading at all to get geared up.


I wouldn't doubt that those that were deeply involved in trading have done more than just hey I got GG X for whatever price. Then the players make a trade never seeing or speaking to each other again. They do more than that, some will find someone that hasn't ripped them off and might want to play with that person.

You might find that person that all of your friends are talking about as someone that won't rip you off then you have made a new friend.


So what? If it's friends you're after, you're better off striking up conversations in random games than you are waiting for things to drop and making friends with trading partners.
What I miss about the AH was the ability to see what's in my inventory without having to swap into that character, start a game and check... (and repeat if it's not there).

I also miss "the period of time" in which Set wasn't the entire itemization. I mean, itemization was trash in D3V, but IMO, sets killed skill and rune choices.
11/23/2018 11:19 AMPosted by ElobaCarcen
Gold AH and RMAH were not the problem.

The problem was the artificial scarcity and the extreme randomness when it came to item rolls. These were meant to force you into resorting to RMAH.
If items rolled in a more consistent manner, like back in D2, RMAH wouldn't have been much of an issue.


Drop rates have to be balanced around the existence of trade regardless of what form it takes. If it is an AH of some type then they drop rates will be much lower than it would with just player to player trading.
11/23/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Vresiberba
Well, the same thing happened a couple hours into Abyss, too [I skipped Bestiary]. I also found no less than two Taste of Hate flasks before I even completed the Delve campaign, and they netted me 200c each. I agree that those flasks were somewhat lucky, but then again it goes to show that even with open trade, decent drop rates and fresh two thirds into a temp League, you can still do well in a trade environment and have a blast. It's quite frankly no less than absolutely amazing.

The joy finding these items and discovering what they were worth and realising what it would do to my build, made my day. Being given a complete Necromancer set, all six items during the first, and last time I tried Season because I crossed over an artificial barrier... that's, just, ugh. No, that i will not do again.


You were still lucky in PoE, during delve I had to farm for my Tabula Rasa by farming the humility divination card .

11/23/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Orrion
So what? If it's friends you're after, you're better off striking up conversations in random games than you are waiting for things to drop and making friends with trading partners.


I am just saying that friendships can start from anywhere. More than just chatting. Otherwise better have a game set up a glorified chat room to make friends.
11/23/2018 04:23 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Drop rates have to be balanced around the existence of trade regardless of what form it takes. If it is an AH of some type then they drop rates will be much lower than it would with just player to player trading.


One thing I miss from Trading is the ability to farm something neat late at night, and give it to my brother or a good friend the next day.

Right now, it's either an upgrade or you instantly salvage it (except if you play HC, that is). With trading, it may still have value for a friend (ignoring the market here).

I remember playing late at night, and finding something that my brother really wanted (or a friend). The next day, I would be like "GUESS WHAT I FOUND?". I would tease a little before dropping it on the ground for that person.

As a whole, D3 has no excitement when it comes to itemization whereas D2 had plenty of loot "with potential". Even a gray item could be godly. Even a mere yellow circlet could be godly. Any GC in Act 3 nightmare and higher could be awesome. Jewels could be GG (despite being impossibly rare).
D2 = not and China goldbseller spam.

Current trading system is better I think. Maybe if new AH was set so that items could go into AH until bound? It works in wow. And gold inflation needs to be curbed.
11/23/2018 04:37 PMPosted by DoomBringer
As a whole, D3 has no excitement when it comes to itemization whereas D2 had plenty of loot "with potential". Even a gray item could be godly. Even a mere yellow circlet could be godly. Any GC in Act 3 nightmare and higher could be awesome. Jewels could be GG (despite being impossibly rare).


D2's itemization system is better designed to support trading than the itemization system of this game. If we had a good itemization and skill system where the majority of the power is not on the gear. Then add in many alternatives to the BiS gear per slot. Then you can have trading in a game. As long as the gap between BiS and alternates is not huge.
11/22/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Fieryeel
As above.

To me, the removal of the AH and RMAH was a plus. It motivated me to go out and kill monsters to upgrade myself, instead of camping the AH or RMAH for loot.

I do hear the odd complain here and there about the removal of the AH and RMAH, and even a few who said a better feature POE had was its non-official RMAH (no idea if these are trolls).

So why do you miss the AH and RMAH?


dont miss it at all, but the implementation of it was terrible - the gold AH was pretty bad as well. They allowed players to put up items without any cost to using it, inciting players to put up there garbage because they had no reason NOT to, and flooding the AH with at least 10 items per player x # of players....

Most AH in games have a fee up front from a meaningful resource, ie: gold to list something if gold is scarce, making it so that putting something up has a cost and sometimes an increasing cost per day that it stays up, incentivizing ppl to ONLY list items that they think are REALLY going to sell and not flooding it with garbage.

Even then i feel as if in games that allow this make it so that the most powerful items/rewards are not tradable so as not minimize the impact of the game rewarding u, just as a way to supplement conveniences such as temporary slots that players have been UNLUCKY enough not to fill for too long.

I think a RMAH w/ cut going to Blizz (15%-50%) can actually be a legit microtransaction, unintrusive way to monetize Diablo BUT it HAS to have strict restrictions about what can be sold, the cost of selling, impact on the reward system (player power), the game (drop rates and item inflation), and needs to have competing systems to make the AH seem interesting as opposed to the go-to for anything but player power or cash. WoW has done this successfully with the WoW Token. Ppl can buy the wow token for Real Money and sell it for in game gold to other players and other players can use the wow token to pay for their game, making WoW free for them with in game gold...and the unintrusive part of this is that gold is not REALLY equated to player power - its used PRIMARILY for cosmetics and conveniences (exceptions with flasks/dps pots sold for gold on AH but they are consumables meaning they depleted after a VERY brief time are taken out of the economy system and can also be farmed reasonably as well so no real issues ensue). Gold is still has massive gold sinks in the form or cosmetics and so it leaves the system not quite as fast as u get it, but inflation can be controlled if they wanted to.

In other words, WoW Token has proved a successful way to microtransaction WoW in an unobtrusive way that the community actually LIKES because it allows them to play their game for free....smart thinking.

Diablo AH can also WORK and promote community...but there are SO many aspects to consider in order to ensure it is done well that Team 3 back then (and im pretty sure even now) were just ignorant of and unprepared for...devs are devs, not rocket scientists or street-wise players...at the end of the day, nerds have to look up from what they work on the see what's happening outside in order to best decide how his work is going to be received...
I love trading in games (Diablo 2, POE) but to be honest the AH & RMAH system in Diablo 3 was a big fail.

Also the remove of trading in Diablo 3 was a big fail too....it ended up in higher Legendary drorate and this dont feel satisfying at all.

In POE f.e. I lose my mind when I drop a Legendary thats usefull and probably I need for my build.

In Diablo 3 = meh...1 more Legendary, like 20-30 seconds before....Legendarys have no value bcs its raining Legendarys and thats not satisfying.
And having complete build within 3-4 days dont make it better....(either its ancient or insta disenchant)....

A good ARPG needs trading (and you can see at POE that it works perfect)....but pls not again a system like the D3 AH & RMAH.
I don't necessarily miss the AH/RMAH. What I do miss is a player driven economy. When done right they can enhance the experience, not detract from it. D3V had the problem of skewing heavily towards it being a requirement for the vast majority.
11/24/2018 03:23 AMPosted by CroDanZ
I love trading in games (Diablo 2, POE) but to be honest the AH & RMAH system in Diablo 3 was a big fail.

Also the remove of trading in Diablo 3 was a big fail too....it ended up in higher Legendary drorate and this dont feel satisfying at all.

In POE f.e. I lose my mind when I drop a Legendary thats usefull and probably I need for my build.

In Diablo 3 = meh...1 more Legendary, like 20-30 seconds before....Legendarys have no value bcs its raining Legendarys and thats not satisfying.
And having complete build within 3-4 days dont make it better....(either its ancient or insta disenchant)....

A good ARPG needs trading (and you can see at POE that it works perfect)....but pls not again a system like the D3 AH & RMAH.


A good ARPG does not need trading. A lot of people played D1 and D2 offline. Obviously they couldn’t trade and still had a good playing experience.

What a good ARPG needs is reasonable item acquisition, and players needs ways to get items that are being particularly elusive. Trading CAN fulfill that function, but it’s not the only way to do it. The problem with having trading do it is that things are balanced around it, so if you aren’t utilizing trading you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Trading has too much extra baggage. In order to not get screwed using it everyone has to have the knowledge of what things are worth. I don’t doubt I’ve probably vendored some decent crafting base items in PoE, but knowing what all of them are and knowing what specific builds use from League to League - it’s all constantly changing.

I just want the ability to find items that I can use without having to waste my time outside the game figuring out what things are worth and finding people who have what I want. I want to be playing the game.
The auction house was great, a nice way to get items that wouldn't drop for you and make a lil extra gold along the way.

It was all working fine until the RMAH screwed it all over.
11/24/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Orrion

A good ARPG does not need trading. A lot of people played D1 and D2 offline. Obviously they couldn’t trade and still had a good playing experience.

What a good ARPG needs is reasonable item acquisition, and players needs ways to get items that are being particularly elusive. Trading CAN fulfill that function, but it’s not the only way to do it. The problem with having trading do it is that things are balanced around it, so if you aren’t utilizing trading you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Trading has too much extra baggage. In order to not get screwed using it everyone has to have the knowledge of what things are worth. I don’t doubt I’ve probably vendored some decent crafting base items in PoE, but knowing what all of them are and knowing what specific builds use from League to League - it’s all constantly changing.

I just want the ability to find items that I can use without having to waste my time outside the game figuring out what things are worth and finding people who have what I want. I want to be playing the game.


You could always ignore the trading aspect of PoE, either "manually" (willfully) or via playing with Solo Self Found ticked on which prevents trading.

The first option is basically what I do, which is why I always have little "wealth", because I am often times using my chaos orbs, scouring, chance orbs, etc to craft gear. I just use trading as a kind of last resort. I turn to it when I could really use a particular unique. Then I just look for the cheap ones that are only a few chaos.
11/22/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Fieryeel
As above.

To me, the removal of the AH and RMAH was a plus. It motivated me to go out and kill monsters to upgrade myself, instead of camping the AH or RMAH for loot.

I do hear the odd complain here and there about the removal of the AH and RMAH, and even a few who said a better feature POE had was its non-official RMAH (no idea if these are trolls).

So why do you miss the AH and RMAH?


I can see the appeal. I agree the removal of the auction house was good for the game but I do admit.. I liked the money I was making off it.
Once greed becomes the main way to enhance your playing experience, as in just buying/trading your way to best-in-slot items vice actually going out and finding them yourself, you diminish the whole premise of what a "loot finding" game is supposed to be about.

I hope that I am wrong but the new Diablo 4 (or MMO, or whatever) will most likely be a greed based, loot box dropping (and you have to buy keys to open them) experience where whoever has the biggest wallet has the best hero.

Wise people will understand what I am saying but it seems that the same people who buy a console game, look up the cheat codes to have infinite lives or be invincible, finish the game in a few days then brag at school/work how they beat the game will be the new market for future Diablo games. I saw this years ago and now it seems that Activision only cares about making money and have forgotten the "real" loot find players who helped make Blizzard the company it became.

It is sad to see a billion dollar company lose touch with their own fans, and start to decline...take "greed" out of the equation and go back to making games the way they should be; you'll still make your money and have happy, loyal fans for life.

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