Folks who miss the AH or RMAH. Why do you want it back?

General Discussion
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11/24/2018 07:41 AMPosted by TankHunter
11/24/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Orrion

A good ARPG does not need trading. A lot of people played D1 and D2 offline. Obviously they couldn’t trade and still had a good playing experience.

What a good ARPG needs is reasonable item acquisition, and players needs ways to get items that are being particularly elusive. Trading CAN fulfill that function, but it’s not the only way to do it. The problem with having trading do it is that things are balanced around it, so if you aren’t utilizing trading you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Trading has too much extra baggage. In order to not get screwed using it everyone has to have the knowledge of what things are worth. I don’t doubt I’ve probably vendored some decent crafting base items in PoE, but knowing what all of them are and knowing what specific builds use from League to League - it’s all constantly changing.

I just want the ability to find items that I can use without having to waste my time outside the game figuring out what things are worth and finding people who have what I want. I want to be playing the game.


You could always ignore the trading aspect of PoE, either "manually" (willfully) or via playing with Solo Self Found ticked on which prevents trading.

The first option is basically what I do, which is why I always have little "wealth", because I am often times using my chaos orbs, scouring, chance orbs, etc to craft gear. I just use trading as a kind of last resort. I turn to it when I could really use a particular unique. Then I just look for the cheap ones that are only a few chaos.


You couldn't ignore it when the AH was around in D3 because the drop rates were low to force people to use it. Things were balanced around having it. Any system that has trade will be balanced around players utilizing it.

D3's problem wasn't getting rid of the AH. It was skyrocketing drop rates way past the point of reasonable with all the additional difficulties and GRs. They should have stopped around the first RoS anniversary when they kept the 100% buff for Rifts. Drop rates felt good back then and grouping was beneficial and desired to trade and just kill things.
Ew.

Even though we are in dark times now, we still don't speak of THOSE dark times.
11/24/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Orrion

You couldn't ignore it when the AH was around in D3 because the drop rates were low to force people to use it. Things were balanced around having it. Any system that has trade will be balanced around players utilizing it.

D3's problem wasn't getting rid of the AH. It was skyrocketing drop rates way past the point of reasonable with all the additional difficulties and GRs. They should have stopped around the first RoS anniversary when they kept the 100% buff for Rifts. Drop rates felt good back then and grouping was beneficial and desired to trade and just kill things.


90% of my gear upgrades in D3V were bought off of the auction house. 90-200% stat boosts I critically need all for the low price of like 3-4k gold a piece... and that was the "junk level" of the AH. The it sits on the board for days and its price gets dropped every time it gets relisted in desperation for someone to take it off your hands level.

D3V was the AH geared you, the mobs were just for the money for the Ah to gear you.

I think though that D3's current problem is not that they skyrocketed drop rates. It is that they made it so that sets and Legendaries are the only things of value. If an AH system came back they would be the only things thrown on it for massive inflated prices because you got people walking around with billions of gold they earned in a few days of starting a season. If Legendaries and Sets could not be thrown on the AH then it would be useless, because rares are useless once you have your set. Even dropping down the drop rates would not matter much because deaths breaths and kadala exist.

In PoE I feel that they have a good balance between the rate of getting items, getting currency you can use for crafting, and ways to get said items. It also helped that whites were actually alright to pick up, because a white with a good base can with some currency turn into a gear upgrade. A bad rare with a good base can be scoured and remade. A good magic piece can be upgraded to a rare.

As leagues came in and got added to the base of the game we started getting more and more ways to craft what we specifically wanted in the face of RNG. Essences which gave you a guaranteed affix of your choice, master crafting which allowed you to add a mod you wanted, soon we will have veiled mods we can craft onto gear, as well as the beast crafting coming back. There is also the delve ones were we can even forbid certain mods from going on the item based on how we setup the currency.

Wanted to upgrade the socket count on a good piece you got? Voirici has your back, want to guarantee link all those? Vorici still has your back. Need extra life on that armor piece, or maybe resistances? Haku got your back.

In PoE Trading is an option, but not a requirement. Not like D3V was.
The only ones who miss it were the 1% who actually made money working the AH.

Diablo 2 got trading right, Diablo 3 got it way wrong.
I think Trading does need to return at some point.

The problem I had with the RMAH was... the RM part, I don't care about one if it just using in game currency. The drop rate was dumb low at the beginning, and I quit D3 then came back in ROS.

Monetizing games is out of control. I am not going to endorse P2W, P2bepretty, or P2Gamble. It's anti-Consumer and predatory.

Make actual content to make actual money. As much as I don't like DLC, I will take it all day long over what is trying to be shoved down our throats now. Come out with 1 class pack and 1 act pack every year and make your money.(they can even be short acts or partial acts. Can't tell me this can't be done. Other companies can pull this off with less resources).

I've drawn a line in the sand with this. Im even ok if companies start charging a bit more for there products up front. Need to charge for true content though, stop trying to make everything about the quick buck. I'm ready to completely give up on gaming if there are no games left that I can just play without forking over money for it every month. So giving up on Blizzard games while it's really sad, would not bother me. Just means the end of an era.

"No King rules forever my Son"
11/24/2018 12:01 PMPosted by TankHunter
11/24/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Orrion

You couldn't ignore it when the AH was around in D3 because the drop rates were low to force people to use it. Things were balanced around having it. Any system that has trade will be balanced around players utilizing it.

D3's problem wasn't getting rid of the AH. It was skyrocketing drop rates way past the point of reasonable with all the additional difficulties and GRs. They should have stopped around the first RoS anniversary when they kept the 100% buff for Rifts. Drop rates felt good back then and grouping was beneficial and desired to trade and just kill things.


90% of my gear upgrades in D3V were bought off of the auction house. 90-200% stat boosts I critically need all for the low price of like 3-4k gold a piece... and that was the "junk level" of the AH. The it sits on the board for days and its price gets dropped every time it gets relisted in desperation for someone to take it off your hands level.

D3V was the AH geared you, the mobs were just for the money for the Ah to gear you.

I think though that D3's current problem is not that they skyrocketed drop rates. It is that they made it so that sets and Legendaries are the only things of value. If an AH system came back they would be the only things thrown on it for massive inflated prices because you got people walking around with billions of gold they earned in a few days of starting a season. If Legendaries and Sets could not be thrown on the AH then it would be useless, because rares are useless once you have your set. Even dropping down the drop rates would not matter much because deaths breaths and kadala exist.


That's one of the problems, yes. But even if Rare items were good, it's not like you wouldn't get what you were after in short order with the current drop rates.

In PoE I feel that they have a good balance between the rate of getting items, getting currency you can use for crafting, and ways to get said items. It also helped that whites were actually alright to pick up, because a white with a good base can with some currency turn into a gear upgrade. A bad rare with a good base can be scoured and remade. A good magic piece can be upgraded to a rare.

As leagues came in and got added to the base of the game we started getting more and more ways to craft what we specifically wanted in the face of RNG. Essences which gave you a guaranteed affix of your choice, master crafting which allowed you to add a mod you wanted, soon we will have veiled mods we can craft onto gear, as well as the beast crafting coming back. There is also the delve ones were we can even forbid certain mods from going on the item based on how we setup the currency.

Wanted to upgrade the socket count on a good piece you got? Voirici has your back, want to guarantee link all those? Vorici still has your back. Need extra life on that armor piece, or maybe resistances? Haku got your back.

In PoE Trading is an option, but not a requirement. Not like D3V was.


lol. Most of those crafting things you're talking about doing take forever. I mean, maybe if I dumped every free moment I had into a League I might get enough orbs to use Vorici once to 6L an item. And I've never even seen an Exalted orb drop.
No to the AH. Yes to player trading. Trading is the superior version in a non-MMO loot grinder and promotes community more than the AH will.

Edit: RMAH at least. In game AH with no way to buy gold if implemented properly could help. But the D3 version was garbage.
11/22/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Fieryeel
To me, the removal of the AH and RMAH was a plus. It motivated me to go out and kill monsters to upgrade myself, instead of camping the AH or RMAH for loot.

I do hear the odd complain here and there about the removal of the AH and RMAH, and even a few who said a better feature POE had was its non-official RMAH (no idea if these are trolls).

So why do you miss the AH and RMAH?

So. They did not just remove AH, they removed the option of trading as a whole (and that was to be expected, if people could trade, it would lead to an unofficial AH so it wouldn't matter). Without trading it's not as "alive" and feels more like a single. Also "playing AH" was another game itself.

But bots and people who use them ruin the fun. I wouldn't want AH restored, not until Blizzard's policy regarding bots is changed to a more harsh one.
11/24/2018 01:47 AMPosted by Krymm
dont miss it at all, but the implementation of it was terrible - the gold AH was pretty bad as well. They allowed players to put up items without any cost to using it, inciting players to put up there garbage because they had no reason NOT to, and flooding the AH with at least 10 items per player x # of players....

Most AH in games have a fee up front from a meaningful resource, ie: gold to list something if gold is scarce, making it so that putting something up has a cost and sometimes an increasing cost per day that it stays up, incentivizing ppl to ONLY list items that they think are REALLY going to sell and not flooding it with garbage.

Why does that even matter? It's not like you get a commission for every item you list and if the amount of items have no detremental effect on the system and old posted items get automatically delisted after, say two weeks, this should be a non-issue.

Besides, the fee is basically just a currency sink and you don't browse an auction house anyway, you enter your search criteria, pick the cheapest item matching them, buy it and off you go; like it's intended. Items listed for fantasy prices just don't get sold, not even looked at and gets buried in the noise.
11/24/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Krayz
The only ones who miss it were the 1% who actually made money working the AH.

Yeah, I read this all too many times. Just because I liked trading in Diablo 3, I was accused of being a shill for real money item selling sites on the web - by none other than our resident green no less, and since green text means it's true around here these parts, there I was, made a shill and could do nothing about it.

Fun times!
11/24/2018 01:31 PMPosted by MrBeefy
No to the AH. Yes to player trading. Trading is the superior version in a non-MMO loot grinder and promotes community more than the AH will.

Edit: RMAH at least. In game AH with no way to buy gold if implemented properly could help. But the D3 version was garbage.


You can not have free trade without real money ever getting involved. It simply isn't possible.

Pragmatically, the point of the RMAH was so people wouldn't be giving their credit card information to shady third parties who could go on to use it for whatever other nefarious means. That still didn't stop them, given the price cap, but you were far less likely to be scammed with Blizz being the middleman.

Now, why I say it's impossible to keep money out of things is pretty simple. Even if gold is removed from the equation, trades instead become the seller accepting some crap item in exchange for the good stuff if some sort of mutual trade has to be made. Some try to assert this could be avoided if items are broken down into tiers and can only be traded for like types, but this presents a problem in the rarer brackets when it means you have to find something great to get something great in exchange, not a few decent good things if you find a willing seller. Further, items within a tier will also be marginalized by a certain subset of the community, which means even if you find the crappiest item in the great tier, no one will actually want it because it isn't among the useful category. Not surprisingly, money could still be used here, too. Basically, you can't really trust devs to tier things properly unless there's a pretty clear cut standard.

In the end, it's pretty much why I'd settle for what Blizz settled on here. If what you really want to do is help a friend gear up, you play with them. Sure, it can suck if you get something good and they're not around, but something comparable is far more likely to appear again without drop rates being neutered into futility as trade tends to demand.
...

That was because of the RMAH! Look at the game now? you do a rift and you drop 8 legendaries, it really lost its value and your hype when you drop it!

There were times that i got tired of grinding but i kept on the game just to see what were the gear other people were selling and it was interesting, i remember 1.300 manajumas knifes, i really liked scrolling through the gear when i didnt want to grind.
And the other thing is just like Quinn69 said before, if we have a MOBILE game that was free to download and had something you could do and you could earn stuff like keys to grifts on your D3 account or something like that would be AWESOME, it would increase your contact with the game with more option on how to keep in touch with it.
I dont understand why people say otherwise because the game right now is 3 this basically, do bounties, rift or grift. there should be so much more stuff you could do just like i said, tired of grinding? take a look to the AH, it was just an option, if you dont like it, just dont use it, same for the mobile, if it was a free to download and would only give something to help you out when you would play the D3, like giving keystones.
I just strongly think that the more ways to interact with the game, the better, and i miss the AH and really thought what Quin69 said about that mobile game way to interact with D3 was awesome too.
I just don't see how you can add the Auction House with out braking game progression. I don't want to have to sit there playing the damn AH just so I can get a good item.


Lol, what?

Diablo 3 has progression?

Getting fully geared in less than 2 hours?

Then looking for the exact same items with slight % upgrades for the end game?

Back with the AH it actually took weeks to months to gear up a character..

It wasn't just handed to u in a couple hours...

But i guess thats what these children want nowadays, everything handed to them and never have to work for or earn anything...
11/25/2018 05:15 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib
But i guess thats what these children want nowadays, everything handed to them and never have to work for or earn anything...


The problem however was that you could grind for weeks or even months and still not find anything even remotely useful (to use or to sell). In all my time of playing during D3 vanilla I think I found only 3 things that were worth using for myself and probably 4 things that were actually worth selling. That's more tedious than fun honestly, and it's something I certainly don't miss, heck I'd have better chance of finding some high runes in Diablo 2 than some astounding item in D3 vanilla. Of course, the way things are now has it's own set of problems as well, but I won't go into that.
11/25/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Oblivion
11/25/2018 05:15 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib
But i guess thats what these children want nowadays, everything handed to them and never have to work for or earn anything...


The problem however was that you could grind for weeks or even months and still not find anything even remotely useful (to use or to sell). In all my time of playing during D3 vanilla I think I found only 3 things that were worth using for myself and probably 4 things that were actually worth selling. That's more tedious than fun honestly, and it's something I certainly don't miss, heck I'd have better chance of finding some high runes in Diablo 2 than some astounding item in D3 vanilla. Of course, the way things are now has it's own set of problems as well, but I won't go into that.


This is why there is trading in ARPG's..... (Not D3 of course its not a ARPG, it is a racing game)

You might not find the exact item u need in hours and hours of gameplay, but u can farm currency or other items to trade for the item or items u need...

But when the droprates for every item are set to x100000, well u should get the idea...

So u prefer the droprates being x100000 higher then Vanilla?

If u think farming items is "tedious" ARPG's might not be the genre for u lol
11/25/2018 05:15 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib

But i guess thats what these children want nowadays, everything handed to them and never have to work for or earn anything...


Yawn.

Nobody is arguing that they didn't swing the pendulum too far the other way.

The AH was the epitome of a low drop rate RNG game forcing you into using an alternate system.

The current game is the epitome of bypassing RNG mechanics by giving you so many rolls that you triumph over it in short order.
11/25/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Orrion
11/25/2018 05:15 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib

But i guess thats what these children want nowadays, everything handed to them and never have to work for or earn anything...


Yawn.

Nobody is arguing that they didn't swing the pendulum too far the other way.

The AH was the epitome of a low drop rate RNG game forcing you into using an alternate system.

The current game is the epitome of bypassing RNG mechanics by giving you so many rolls that you triumph over it in short order.


May not be arguing, but they are currently confirming they are happy and satisfied with having everything handed to them in hours of gameplay with these x100000 droprates, and dont want to go back to low droprates and trading.....

Self-found players should just have their own server instead of ruining what the Diablo series was all about.....
11/25/2018 05:36 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib
This is why there is trading in ARPG's..... (Not D3 of course its not a ARPG, it is a racing game)

You might not find the exact item u need in hours and hours of gameplay, but u can farm currency or other items to trade for the item or items u need...

But when the droprates for every item are set to x100000, well u should get the idea...

So u prefer the droprates being x100000 higher then Vanilla?

If u think farming items is "tedious" ARPG's might not be the genre for u lol

I don't think farming for items that I need is tedious, don't know how you got that, but it's silly. I have little issue when it comes to grinding, in fact that's my preference when it comes to games. However, I do think personally that farming for items that I don't need, just so I can hope to use it to trade for another item that I might need is tedious, especially if I have to do that for almost every single piece of my gear. If it's a 50/50 thing, that'd be different, but that wasn't the case with the AH. If you weren't using it, you were condemning yourself to stagnation.

Do I prefer the droprate now in comparison to D3 vanilla? Yes, although the droprate for items is quite high.

Could the droprate be toned down? Yes, most definitely

Trading should be an option not a requirement, just as being self-found should be an option, not a requirement either.

Now, if trading served as a defining point in Arpg for you, that's cool. For me, trading was no more than alternative method to acquire what you need, not a primary method.
11/25/2018 06:01 AMPosted by Oblivion
11/25/2018 05:36 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib
This is why there is trading in ARPG's..... (Not D3 of course its not a ARPG, it is a racing game)

You might not find the exact item u need in hours and hours of gameplay, but u can farm currency or other items to trade for the item or items u need...

But when the droprates for every item are set to x100000, well u should get the idea...

So u prefer the droprates being x100000 higher then Vanilla?

If u think farming items is "tedious" ARPG's might not be the genre for u lol

I don't think farming for items that I need is tedious, don't know how you got that, but it's silly. I have little issue when it comes to grinding, in fact that's my preference when it comes to games. However, I do think personally that farming for items that I don't need, just so I can hope to use it to trade for another item that I might need is tedious, especially if I have to do that for almost every single piece of my gear. If it's a 50/50 thing, that'd be different, but that wasn't the case with the AH. If you weren't using it, you were condemning yourself to stagnation.

Do I prefer the droprate now in comparison to D3 vanilla? Yes, although the droprate for items is quite high.

Could the droprate be toned down? Yes, most definitely

Trading should be an option not a requirement, just as being self-found should be an option, not a requirement either.

Now, if trading served as a defining point in Arpg for you, that's cool. For me, trading was no more than alternative method to acquire what you need, not a primary method.


You need a different game if u want every item u need to drop for you.... Thats not how ARPGS work..... At least good ones do, not like D3....

Go play WoW, that has the exact mechanics ur looking for..... Kill a boss and get that item they ALWAYS drop no matter what...

ARPGS should always run off RNG so its always random drops.. Thas what makes a ARPG a ARPG....

Trading was never a requirement.. Just cause u tell urself that does not make it fact.. I got through Vanilla Hell with very minimal trading, because i didnt even understand the AH much...

Insane how people come to a ARPG then start wanting to change the mechanic's to how MORPG's work....

Why dont they just go play a MMORPG......

Thats like u wanting to go to a casino and play a slot machine and spinning it once and demanding that u get the highest roll...... Thats not gonna happen though cause it runs of RNG....... Just like proper ARPG's do....
11/25/2018 05:59 AMPosted by TweakNOnJib
11/25/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Orrion
...

Yawn.

Nobody is arguing that they didn't swing the pendulum too far the other way.

The AH was the epitome of a low drop rate RNG game forcing you into using an alternate system.

The current game is the epitome of bypassing RNG mechanics by giving you so many rolls that you triumph over it in short order.


May not be arguing, but they are currently confirming they are happy and satisfied with having everything handed to them in hours of gameplay with these x100000 droprates, and dont want to go back to low droprates and trading.....

Self-found players should just have their own server instead of ruining what the Diablo series was all about.....


Stop acting like the child you accused the other guy of being, please.

No, I don't want to go back to low drop rates and trading. Because it sucks.

However, I'm pretty sure there's more options than "loot rains from the sky" and "low drop rates and trading."
You need a different game if u want every item u need to drop for you.... Thats not how ARPGS work..... At least good ones not like D3....


As I said above, I have 0 issue grinding for an item, even if it has a low droprate. It doesn't need to drop the first time or even the 20th time, as long as it drops eventually, I have no issue, because I'll keep grinding.

Trading was never a requirement.. Just cause u tell urself that does not make it fact.. I got through Vanilla Hell with very minimal trading, because i didnt even understand the AH much...

Insane how people come to a ARPG then start wanting to change the mechanic's to how MORPG's work....

Why dont they jsut go play a MMORPG......


Probably because I don't want to play a MMORPG...

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