[Barbarian] - Feedback

PTR Feedback 2.6.4
What about adding some %dmg to bul-kathos swords while whirwind for first 3 targets? will be something i think for WW build.
yes
Fellas

I was gonna add a whole lot in main post but...

Well, it is kind of pointless. Here is few things I wanna point out though, reason why I post it here not in op is, that this is more my personal approach, that not everyone may agree with.

Firstly, mighty weapons, fun facts:

1. Not a single one handed mighty weapon is used in any build.
2. Despite having weapon made for all primary skills, a weapon made for bash, weapon made for cleave, and a set with few thousands percent bonus, we cannot make a single generator or primary skill build that will get past torments.
3. Weapons like Remorsless for example are almost made for certain builds (other than gen/primary) but despite more than 2 years of feedback we cannot get a single one of them to be useful. Remorseless should be a HoTA Weapon, add a bonus to HoTA for every ancient active, and you get few more HoTA builds, and something that may compete with Istvans. We could literally turn every mighty weapon into useful legendary, and it wouldn’t have to be difficult either.

Secondly, barb power level.

I don’t know, if you guys noticed, but our highest solo builds for past couple of years ALWAYS relied on wonky mechanics, bugs or unintended use of things.

1. PE and Stricken snapshot for WW
2. Cancel animation for charge
3. 6 months of theory crafting to make Thornzy build, that was never intended to happen and was and still is the most intensive to gear in entire game.
4. Wall banging in current R6 HoTA.

You may look on current buff, and say “yay! R6 HoTA will get 130!”. Well, you could shave off about 8 levels from current clears, if wall banging wasn’t present. You wouldn’t be able to use EW bonus, you wouldn’t be able to use synergy between CoE, EW, insanity and oculus.

Thing is, that when you look on our solo clears, you looking at blood, sweat and tears. On hours of gearing, practicing and fishing. Yes, to some extent all builds and classes have to do it, difference is where you land when you are in-between, when you are farming. How many of you can farm same levels a your mirror matching Wizard, Sader, Monk or Necro? How many of you can get same time on T13 rift or same time on same level GR as other classes? I’ll tell you right now, none. When you think you are rocking these 70’s, 80’s or 90’s, other classes can laugh at you, with same gear and paragon.

Look on WW or R6 HoTA. What these builds require to push? 2 of our set builds have both, insane gearing requirements and steep learning curve, while neither is forgiving on rolls or playstyle. Till today’s date people cannot get past GR 70 or farm T13 with WW at 600 paragon or more, we get requests for help all the time on forums. What can other classes do at 600 para?

See, this is why a lot of us are somewhat “muted” (pun intended). When barbs were all excited during last balancing patch, some of us said “relax, couple moths in and you will realize that nothing have changed, and we still same pompon holding cheerleaders”.

Look on this patch, and tell me, what exactly changed here? Besides season only temporary buff that makes Charge somewhat decent in group, absolutely nothing changed. A fact that you can do couple GR higher is meaningless. It’s only the number. It’s like you won the lottery, but at the same time everyone else did, and in result everything just get more expensive.
Well said Sav
Also agree with what Savage said. Not only are the builds wonky, in many cases they're just not fun. Sure R6 HOTA is incredibly strong but the truth is banging into a wall for 12 seconds or so to smash for 4 isn't fun.

Regarding mighty weapons and generator builds why is it so difficult to simply model some of these builds similar to what they've done for Monk? Compare how strong monks will be with the new I6 build and compare that to IK or LoN and we're talking close to a 40 GR discrepancy.

Here's a crazy thought for the developers to consider, we as barbarians want to pick up our class specific mighty weapons, jump into the fray and smash things head on. This isn't complicated.
11/28/2018 08:47 AMPosted by serro
Here's a crazy thought for the developers to consider, we as barbarians want to pick up our class specific mighty weapons, jump into the fray and smash things head on. This isn't complicated


Oh, it is. It surely it seem like it. It’s been like, hm, lemme think, well, nvm, I don’t think I can actually picture us using one handed mighty weapons in the builds, outside of Thornzy when we used Oathkeeper for....attack speed.

But, hey, we got a Sh!ttler Wrap, sorry Saffron Wrap, with a comment “we wanna see what players gonna come up with”.

11/28/2018 08:47 AMPosted by serro
Sure R6 HOTA is incredibly strong but the truth is banging into a wall for 12 seconds or so to smash for 4 isn't fun.


We bang walls because there is no way to close these levels without it. It is very entertaining gameplay, once you manage to get the gear with enough CDR, a very well rolled weapons, your perquisite to playing the build, outlined in every guide you can find, will be “you have to master wall charging”. FFS, it’s almost embarrassing to play barb, when you know you have to resort to such things. Again, it is only to show how overall weak barb is, because that this mechanic was and still is used in Ik6/R4 charge build to fight with RG’s, so you could shave few levels off that build too.
Not quite, dude. The BK set are useful one-handed Mighty Weapons, but even they are lackluster. Sure, they prop up the Zodiac ring, but they could--and should--contribute more to their designated major build.

All Mighty Weapons should contribute more to their designated skills and builds.

But like I told y'all at the start: you're talking to walls. And these walls don't even understand the builds in question.

It would be shockingly easy to fix most useless Barb skills and items--shockingly easy to create more inclusive itemization and build diversity. But it's not gonna happen. That boat didn't just sail. It sank. Years ago. When they stopped listening.

Hang up your cleats.
We, Barbs, always have been like this. We just find ways to make it work. The moment we don't find ways to make it work then maybe this class will get what it deserves. But for now, it is what it is.
Free, Bk are set mighty weapons, not legendary. Again, We are not using a single legendary class specific mighty weapon, despite having what, 6 or 7 of them?

Bk only works because we went on our knees, and begged Don Vu to do something with them, because for a year or so prior to that Istvans were stronger. It was a last minute patch during last ptr. We didn’t even hope back than that it would happen, one-on-one I had with Don was more of “please do something with them next patch because right now set of weapons made for WW is weaker than set of generic swords”, and somehow they managed to apply a buff 2 weeks before ptr ended. And even this had a hiccup, because according to my math I did when they announced a buff, BK was suppose to be stronger and should reset Cooldown faster, and on ptr they didn’t. Prokahn found the bug, I found the Bk and zodiac bug origin in 2.2 (lol), pointed it out, and they hotfixed it. This just shows how much work it takes to get a stupid numeric buff up, never would happen, and never would be proper if we wouldn’t spend hours over hours of work on it.

11/28/2018 09:50 AMPosted by Tee
We, Barbs, always have been like this. We just find ways to make it work. The moment we don't find ways to make it work then maybe this class will get what it deserves. But for now, it is what it is.


Ya, barbs always have to pull it like a teeth. We always “find a way” or “trick” to make a build work, and than, on the end, we still end up below other classes, because in order to justify power level you need to look on paragon and augments level of other classes doing same things.
I don't play R6 HOTA strictly because of the wall charge mechanics necessary to maximize it. It's bad gameplay.

I'll take IK HOTA anyday of the week. Even if it's 10+ GRs behind.
Remorseless could and should receive an easy fix.

There's gotta be at least one developer who can think of a COTA/HOTA buff that wouldn't be OP.

I know a lot of people want Skorn to be a Rend weapon, but we have a few 2H MWs that could receive an easy update to become the Rend weapon.
i reach on PTR season 103 today with IK HoTA, no more time for push more. It's pretty solid and can make near all maps, not need high fishing. But the dps is far away from tops builds. But charge barb, HotA raekor and WW barb need fishing as hell, and i dont like to play like that to be honest.
Well, for a signature class of the game and used for more advertisements to sell Diablo than any other class since the beginning, it is time to take the Barbarian out of the cesspool and make the class "Great Again"
All the great feed back and number crunching you have received in this PTR and many PTR's in the past, it is a shame that the Barb Class is where it is today. Do your jobs Dev's and make it right!
As long as Barbarian remains such a necessary support spot, I don't see it also becoming a go to option as a DPS in groups. That would mean 2+ Barbs in groups.

Other classes would riot.

Just keeping it real.
if dps build for barb isnot happening after this PTR iam personally done for good

its been enough (for me at least)

silly things like r6hota outperform ww few lvls literally doesnot bother me
And because it doesn´t matter what kind of suggestions we post, I might as well go crazy here with OP ideas that I had fun putting together this evening.

General:
  • Set bonuses are now gained by equipping (2), (3) and (5) set items.
  • All cooldowns and skill resource costs have been halved.
  • Shrines and Pylons will spawn an elite.
  • Your cooldowns are reduces by 10 seconds for 15 seconds after defeating and Elite.
  • Belts and Mighty Belts roll with a socket for a legendary gem to be put inside.
  • All new armor pieces roll with Sockets outside of primary/secondary stat limitations. Old gear pieces can gain maximum sockets by applying Rama Gifts.
  • You may filter Leaderboards by set bonus equipped.
  • Solo Greater Rift progression requires you to clear a particular tier 3 times in a row to unlock a +1 higher tier above GR level 100. Legendary gems are adjusted to a maximum of 5 levels above your Solo GR record.

  • Barbarian:

    Mortick´s Immortal Drama (amulet): If Immortal King´s Call is the only set bonus you have equipped, Wrath of the Berserker gains the effect of every rune.

    Fury of the Ancients (shoulders): Call of the Ancients gains the effect of every rune.

    Remorseless (1H Mighty): Hammer of the Ancients has a 30% chance to summon an Ancient for 20 seconds with the effect of the Call of the Ancients rune equipped and deals 50% more damage per summoned Ancient.

    Earthshatter (1H Mace): Hammer of the Ancients has a 30% chance to pull enemies from within 24 yards towards the impact location and its Critical Hits deal triple their damage.

    Ambo´s Pride (1H Mighty): You can no longer generate Fury. Cleave hits enemies in a 180 degree arc and its reach is doubled.

    Dishonored Legacy (1H Mighty): Cleave deals up to 900% increased damage based on percentage of missing Fury and over 9000% weapon damage if you have no Fury at all.

    Oathkeeper (1H Mighty): Your primary skills attack 50% faster, generate 50% more Fury and deal 300% increased damage.

    Vambraces of Sescheron (Bracers): Your primary skills heal you for 6% of your missing Life and gain 20% Area Damage plus an additional Area Damage bonus equal to 200% of your missing Life.

    The Undisputed Champion (Mighty Belt): Frenzy gains the effect of every rune and turns into a permanent aura which affects your Primary and Secondary skills.

    Nutcracker (1H Mace): Bash always results in a Critical Hit and immobilizes the target for 3 seconds. Every subsequent Bash within 3 seconds deals 50% more damage, stacking up to 10 times.

    Neanderthal (1H Mace): Every Bash attack that hits an enemy triggers Revenge if you have taken damage in the past 5 seconds. Revenge damage is increased by 5,000%.

    Nailbiter (1H Mace): Thorns damage from attacks causes enemies to bleed, dealing 300% of Thorns damage per second for 3 seconds. Enemies bleeding from Nailbiter take triple damage from Thorns attacks.

    Arreat´s Law (Spear): Weapon Throw generates an additional 5 Fury per 5 yards away from the first enemy it hits and its damage is increased by 100% per 5 Fury it generates. You lose 50 Fury per second.

    Flesh Tearer (1H Axe): Weapon Throw gains the effect of the Ricochet rune and subsequent hits against the same enemy increase the damage of your next Weapon Throw by 5%.

    Pendergrasps (Gloves): Weapon Throw and Ancient Spear double throw. Madawc uses Weapon Throw and Ancient Spear when you do.

    The Three Hundredth Spear: Increase the damage of Ancient Spear by 600%. Additionally, Ancient Spear returns half of the Fury it expended and always results in a critical hit against the first enemy it hits.

    Skular´s Salvation (Bracers): Increase the damage of Ancient Spear by 500%. When Ancient Spear hits 10 or fewer enemies, the damage is increased by another 500%.

    Stone Gauntlets (Gloves): You may dual-wield two Two-Handed weapons but cannot activate Wrath of the Berserker.

    MotE (2):
    --- Reduce the cooldown of Earthquake, Avalanche, Leap, Ground Stomp, Threatening Shout and War Cry by 1 second for every 15 Fury you spend with an attack.
    --- Stomp can be cast up to two times within 1 second and Leap can be cast up to three times within 2 seconds before each of their cooldown begins.

    MotE (3):
    --- Leap causes an Earthquake. Ground Stomp causes two Avalanches.
    --- Gain 400% increased Armor for 10 seconds after using Leap or Ground Stomp.

    MoTE (5):
    --- Leap and the Avalanche caused by Ground Stomp deal 50,000% weapon damage against bosses and regenerate 20% of your maximum Life.
    --- Increase the damage of Earthquake, Avalanche, Leap, Boulder Toss and Ground Stomp by 20,000%.

    Lut Socks: The casting animation of Leap is increased by 66%, increasing the maximum number of consecutive Leaps to 5. You may now Leap over corners and closed walls.

    Sunder (2H Mace, rolls +50 Maximum Fury): The area of effect of Earthquake is increased to 30 yards and it gains the effect of the Molten Fury rune. Whenever you cast an Earthquake or trigger it by Leap, War Cry or Threatening Shout, another Earthquake is triggered. You take 50% reduced damage while standing or being airborne within the area of effect of Earthquake.

    Blade of the Tribes: War Cry and Threatening Shout cause an Avalanche and Earthquake at the target location and their damage is increased by 300%.

    Girdle of Giants: Seismic Slam and Boulder Toss increase Earthquake damage by 500% for 5 seconds.

    Inspiring Presence: Every use of a shout regenerates 3% of your maximum Life per second for 15 seconds. This bonus stacks up to 5 times.

    Fury of the Vanished Peak: Seismic Slam deals 500% more damage, has its Fury cost reduced by 50%, and has a 45-60% chance to cast Avalanche at the target location.

    Bracers of Destruction: Seismic Slam and Avalanche deal 500% more damage. This bonus is tripled against the first 5, and doubled against the next 5 enemies they hit.

    Dread Iron: After casting Ground Stomp, your Attack Speed and Movement Speed are increased by 100% for 5 seconds.

    Marauder´s Rage: Increases the damage bonus by 4% / gain 10% Area Damage for every 10 yards between you and the enemy hit.

    Chilanik´s Chain: Using War Cry increases your Attack Speed and the movement speed of you and your allies by 50%.

    Juggernaut: You are immune to Crowd Control effects while moving and your Movement Speed bonuses are increased by 25%. Whenever a Stun, Freeze, Fear, or Immobilize is cast on you, you have a chance to recover 20% of your maximum Life.
    11/28/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Keel
    if dps build for barb isnot happening after this PTR


    It's never going to happen--not on purpose, anyway. And it won't ever happen without some major changes to skills and supporting legendaries. I guess you can use Vile Charge for trash clears in speed 115s next patch, but you'll need a lot more than 2k Paragon (as in you'll also need a really good team).

    If you're holding your breath for Barbs to DPS in groups, you might as well let it out, log out, and put that dream to bed. Never gonna happen.
    11/28/2018 05:32 PMPosted by Free
    11/28/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Keel
    if dps build for barb isnot happening after this PTR


    It's never going to happen--not on purpose, anyway. And it won't ever happen without some major changes to skills and supporting legendaries. I guess you can use Vile Charge for trash clears in speed 115s next patch, but you'll need a lot more than 2k Paragon (as in you'll also need a really good team).

    If you're holding your breath for Barbs to DPS in groups, you might as well let it out, log out, and put that dream to bed. Never gonna happen.


    : (

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