Season-only RoRG. ugh.

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11/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Just an fyi, for those of you complaining about this, understand that PoE only has league buffs apply to league characters.

Standard has to wait for the league to go core, which sometimes does not happen, or sometimes takes 8-12 months.

So what D3 is doing with seasons should not be culture shock to players, it is just an additional reason or incentive to play a specific game mode.


PoE got the idea from d2. None of this should be surprising for anyone.
I hadn't even considered the worst part of the Season of Grandeur until a few minutes ago:

Unlike Season-only legendaries, which became absorbed into the base game experience at the end of seasons, this RoRG feature will simply disappear at the end of next season.

This means a NS player will not experience this game feature at all. It is 100% locked behind Season play.

All you Season players commenting here seem to have just about zero capacity for empathy. All of your cajoling, ridicule, and "reasoning" are not going to suddenly change my preferences. Furthermore, the fact that your counter-arguments amount to something like "I like season play, why would anyone play NS, stop crying" is very telling.

Blizzard stopped differentiating the benefits of Season vs NS a long time ago, for very good reasons, and they've regressed. Well, as of late, I guess that's par for the course.
11/19/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Agamemnicon
All you Season players commenting here seem to have just about zero capacity for empathy.


I can empathize plenty. I think your thought process and feelings about the buff are misguided and reactionary so I stopped empathizing.
Interesting that all the people that quit the game over the last few weeks are in here posting their opinions like they should matter.
11/19/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Mercury
11/19/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Agamemnicon
All you Season players commenting here seem to have just about zero capacity for empathy.


I can empathize plenty. I think your thought process and feelings about the buff are dumb and reactionary so I stopped empathizing.


What if next Season's patch gave the RoRG buff to NS only? If you play Season, you don't get it.

I would empathize. I would think that's ridiculous, even though I don't play Seasons. If Seasonal players complained about it, I would agree with them.

Why does it bother you so much that I want to try the same game feature that Seasonal players will get? Me having the same thing as you in NS doesn't affect you one bit.

Don't "yuck my yum"
11/19/2018 01:56 PMPosted by Agamemnicon
I hadn't even considered the worst part of the Season of Grandeur until a few minutes ago:

Unlike Season-only legendaries, which became absorbed into the base game experience at the end of seasons, this RoRG feature will simply disappear at the end of next season.

This means a NS player will not experience this game feature at all. It is 100% locked behind Season play.


That JUST occurred to you? I pointed that out on page 1 on the 4th reply:

11/19/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Orrion
Sorry, but that’s exactly what Seasons should be - SEASONAL things, not game-wide things.

Look on the bright side - unlike the legendary situation, this one will have zero impact on non-Season.


All you Season players commenting here seem to have just about zero capacity for empathy. All of your cajoling, ridicule, and "reasoning" are not going to suddenly change my preferences. Furthermore, the fact that your counter-arguments amount to something like "I like season play, why would anyone play NS, stop crying" is very telling.


It boils down to this: You want the Seasonal theme, play Seasons. Otherwise, don't. The choice is entirely yours.

You come across as childish for complaining about something that has been - and should always be, really - the whole point of doing Seasons. It's supposed to be something different and have something different.

Blizzard stopped differentiating the benefits of Season vs NS a long time ago, for very good reasons, and they've regressed. Well, as of late, I guess that's par for the course.


No they didn't. The extra 4 stash tabs continue to be Season only.

As a matter of fact, this is the best Seasonal thing they've done precisely BECAUSE it has no impact on non-Seasons.

Legendary Seasonal items caused players to have to wait, and messed with leaderboards when the Season ended. Seasonal players would have those items and be able to do better than players who didn't, at least for a time.

Stash space forced non-Seasonal players to play Seasons to acquire them. This was very blatant because stash problems pretty much only existed in non-Seasonal play for most players.

This theme? Nothing carries over at all. That's exactly what the theme should be - something that affects Seasons only and has no impact on non-Seasons once the Season is done.

11/19/2018 02:07 PMPosted by Agamemnicon
11/19/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Mercury
...

I can empathize plenty. I think your thought process and feelings about the buff are dumb and reactionary so I stopped empathizing.


What if next Season's patch gave the RoRG buff to NS only? If you play Season, you don't get it.

I would empathize. I would think that's ridiculous, even though I don't play Seasons. If Seasonal players complained about it, I would agree with them.


Of course that's ridiculous. The entire reason Seasons exist is to have something different. It'd be a little stupid if they turned around and put something into non-Season only because then what would be the point of Seasons?

Why does it bother you so much that I want to try the same game feature that Seasonal players will get? Me having the same thing as you in NS doesn't affect you one bit.


There is nothing stopping you from trying that game feature. All you have to do is play Seasons.

Honestly, it sounds like you don't understand the reason Seasons and similar mechanics in other games exist in the first place.
non season need some love too...
11/19/2018 04:20 PMPosted by AngryFish
non season need some love too...

This.

I know the prevailing logic seems to be, "Well people are giving up their old characters for a fresh start so they deserve something!" when it comes to this topic, but if everyone is more or less strongarmed into abandoning their old characters to actually enjoy the full game experience, what's the real point of characters even existing outside of seasons?

Imagine the uproar if non-season got a 10x paragon gain buff, or something like doubling all paragon attributes. I can comfortably guarantee that those who think seasons are the "real game" would be here complaining about how they don't get the benefit and that NS is just dead mode anyway.

Seasons are and have always been a bad idea, and a testament to pretty much any ARPG developer not knowing how to properly balance their games for long-term play. People that buy into the whole "equal fresh start" hype are suckers as any advantage that affords is pretty much blown day one. Don't consider them a testing ground, either. That's what PTRs are for.
11/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Just an fyi, for those of you complaining about this, understand that PoE only has league buffs apply to league characters.

The difference is that starting over in PoE is actually interesting, due to the deep character customization in that game.

Starting over in D3 is a joke. Let's create the same exact generic Demon Hunter that I already have, for no reason.
OP, play non-season but accept both the pros and cons that come with it.
"You guys can make season characters can't you?" - In my best Wyatt impersonation voice.
11/19/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Agamemnicon
I thought we got off that "Season players have special advantages" train after Season 2 or 3, when there were season-only legendaries. I guess we're back on that train now. Sorry loyal NS players.

I was one of the most vocal posters here against seasonal, exclusive items, but this thing, I don't know, I mean it does practically nothing to those not playing season. A free buff? Wow, so the game was made even easier. No loss there. It's like you get twice the XP in season over non-season. So? Why would that even matter for me playing non-season. What a useless incentive. And let's toss in a free Primary, as if obtaining items weren't easy enough. Ugh...

11/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Demonmonger
Just an fyi, for those of you complaining about this, understand that PoE only has league buffs apply to league characters.

The reason GGG does this is because the game is free2play and needs these leagues, the game must have them else the developers don't get paid and of course the fact that the game has trading meaning that the economy needs to be flushed every now and then. Having such a mechanic in a static game like Diablo 3 makes no sense at all. Having exclusive items in a separate game mode was one of the worst ideas Blizzard ever had for Diablo 3, rivalling the moronic auction house.
11/19/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Saidosha
11/19/2018 04:20 PMPosted by AngryFish
non season need some love too...

This.

I know the prevailing logic seems to be, "Well people are giving up their old characters for a fresh start so they deserve something!" when it comes to this topic, but if everyone is more or less strongarmed into abandoning their old characters to actually enjoy the full game experience, what's the real point of characters even existing outside of seasons?

Imagine the uproar if non-season got a 10x paragon gain buff, or something like doubling all paragon attributes. I can comfortably guarantee that those who think seasons are the "real game" would be here complaining about how they don't get the benefit and that NS is just dead mode anyway.

Seasons are and have always been a bad idea, and a testament to pretty much any ARPG developer not knowing how to properly balance their games for long-term play. People that buy into the whole "equal fresh start" hype are suckers as any advantage that affords is pretty much blown day one. Don't consider them a testing ground, either. That's what PTRs are for.


"what's the real point of characters even existing outside of seasons?"

This is PRECISELY what is at the heart of my philosophical objection to Season play.

When I create a character, the last thing I'd ever want to do is take away all their experience and equipment and start from level 1. It makes no sense to me. The point of ARPG characters, IMO, is to create them and build on them. To improve them. To wield them and their powers at their greatest strengths.

Constantly building then abandoning/restarting characters, only playing in Seasons, feels so empty to me. You grind and grind for paragons and gear that you never use again? I mean, what is the point of that?

People who disagree with me seem to be all Seasonal players who like seasons and don't understand why I prefer Non-Season. Additionally they say there needs to be an incentive to play Seasons, or that Seasons should be "something different" or have "special things" Why? If you want to reboot your character, have at it. If you'd rather make full use of all the accumulated experience and gear of your character, come play with me in Non-Season. But don't demand special treatment and incentives to play the game the way YOU want to play it and disparage someone who feels it's unfair that Seasonal players will get to experience a game feature that NS players never will.

11/19/2018 04:12 PMPosted by Orrion
what would be the point of Seasons?


Seasons are already "different". They already have a "point". Everyone starts a fresh character and there are multiple cosmetic rewards. Do you really need more incentive to play Season?

I really appreciate your comment Saidosha, at least some players out there understand where I'm coming from.

EDIT: when I say "you" in this post, that's in the general direction of my opposition in this thread, not you:)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The extra 4 stash tabs continue to be Season only.


This was a TERRIBLE IDEA that was vehemently objected to by large swaths of the player base. I can't believe you used this as an argument.
Not playing season for this. Trash game mode for casuals.
11/19/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Kukiri
Interesting that all the people that quit the game over the last few weeks are in here posting their opinions like they should matter.

I haven't played the game for a year. Go figure.
11/19/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Melisandre
Really glad this is coming back. Considering that 90% of the player base play seasons during seasons, this is totally a big incentive. Hope it stays this way.

Yeah, I'm going to invoke Poe's Law here, because I just can't tell. Season has now basically turned Babycore; the mode where easy is preferred.
11/19/2018 12:23 PMPosted by InsaneChriZ
Rofl, in which game does non-season matter? You can at most use non-season to try out stuff, but in D3 it's literally pointless, another thing that they should delete, the non-season-mode, ancients and primal ancients, armory, sets, story mode, Grifts the list goes on.
I could say the same thing about seasons. What possible "fun" do people see in starting from scratch? These loot-grinder games are about constantly progressing and optimizing your builds and gear, not restarting the grind because the early grind was so much fun (lol).

They could delete seasons tomorrow and I wouldn't lose a single thing I ever played in D3. Some people like playing for the rewards, and I don't care if seasonal players get a special icon or portrait border, but gameplay buffs that significantly affect game balance only being available to season players is completely unacceptable and just another example of how out of touch they are.
11/19/2018 05:03 PMPosted by jay
Not playing season for this. Trash game mode for casuals.

I will, but my team and I aren't thrilled about it. We like the idea to have something new to toy around (rorg passive), but I'd like to have all the gear I want from my non seasonal stash to try anything I like. I farmed for this. I kept my stash almost full for something like this. And, well, it won't happen, I will have to farm brand new stuff just for this.
Right now I'm at a point where I'm thinking "damn, at least it's only 3 months, hopefully s17 isn't too interesting and I can go back to play my NS characters".
11/19/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Saidosha
11/19/2018 04:20 PMPosted by AngryFish
non season need some love too...

This.

I know the prevailing logic seems to be, "Well people are giving up their old characters for a fresh start so they deserve something!" when it comes to this topic, but if everyone is more or less strongarmed into abandoning their old characters to actually enjoy the full game experience, what's the real point of characters even existing outside of seasons?


The full game experience? One little change like this for a Season, and suddenly not having it means you aren't getting the full game experience?

Nah, I don't buy that. I mean, maybe if they did something like turn off GRs for non-Seasonal players, THAT would be lessening the game experience.

I don't even think PoE has a lesser game experience outside of Leagues. All 10 Acts are still there and nothing changes about the gameplay itself. There's just something extra in the Leagues, and it either gets turned off or added to the main game at a later point afterward.

The point of other characters is accumulation.

Imagine the uproar if non-season got a 10x paragon gain buff, or something like doubling all paragon attributes. I can comfortably guarantee that those who think seasons are the "real game" would be here complaining about how they don't get the benefit and that NS is just dead mode anyway.

Seasons are and have always been a bad idea, and a testament to pretty much any ARPG developer not knowing how to properly balance their games for long-term play. People that buy into the whole "equal fresh start" hype are suckers as any advantage that affords is pretty much blown day one. Don't consider them a testing ground, either. That's what PTRs are for.


Eh. I can get behind the "Seasons shouldn't exist" deal. As long as they do, though, it's kind of expected that they have something more. That's been the problem for D3's Seasons ever since they dropped the legendary items. Seasons really haven't had anything more.

The way I've always viewed Seasons is that they're an injection of something new - a potential reason to return to the game, or just a new way to do something. Only PoE has really managed to pull off what I think a Season should be, and even they don't get it right all the time (cough Beastiary league).

Besides which, non-Seasonal IS getting the rest of the changes, like LoN.
11/19/2018 05:17 PMPosted by Kikaha
11/19/2018 05:03 PMPosted by jay
Not playing season for this. Trash game mode for casuals.

I will, but my team and I aren't thrilled about it. We like the idea to have something new to toy around (rorg passive), but I'd like to have all the gear I want from my non seasonal stash to try anything I like. I farmed for this. I kept my stash almost full for something like this. And, well, it won't happen, I will have to farm brand new stuff just for this.
Right now I'm at a point where I'm thinking "damn, at least it's only 3 months, hopefully s17 isn't too interesting and I can go back to play my NS characters".


You'll be back in 1-2 months bro :D

You'll understand my other post a whole lot better when you see how different seasonal drop rates and grs are.

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