1984! Blizzard is implementing Trust Levels on forums

Games & Technology
11/12/2018 06:37 AMPosted by GoauldOfWar
11/12/2018 05:17 AMPosted by regawS
Let them implement this system. This infringes on our rights for freedom is speech (including trolls). Sounds like they are wanting lawsuits and we should be happy to oblige.


There's always one.

Can you tell me which branch of the federal government Blizzard is part of?


They are not a part of the government, they are governed by the government that is supposed to uphold our constitutional rights (which should include companies making their own rules that do not allow us the same freedoms).It’s a shame that freeness of speech is being taken away from a free country.
They've banned me for life because I compared something in the game with cars, a guy answers me that it's normal giving example on some Ford model. I replied that Ford owners must be stupid to agree on that (exact word) - ban for life.

I have like 10 WC3 and several Diablo accounts left - if/when they ban me again (repeated offender, now!) I'll be Livepig2...

Goodbye cruel but fair forum world, ILL BE BAK!
I have been telling you guys about this stuff coming for months now. Then again, we have a lot of people posting right now who are not normally on the forums.

-The OW forums changed to the Discourse forum software in Feb 2018.
-The HotS forums changed to the Discoruse forum software this summer.
-Hearthstone was planned next for Oct, but got delayed.
-WoW changes TOMORROW.
-D3 and SC2 will also change. All the forums will be moving to the new software.

There are some very nice changes coming with regard to notifications, use of emojis, and the ability to make really nice guides once you get to higher trust levels. The formatting you have access to at that point can be useful.

You can read the WoW announcement here that goes into some of the changes https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/breaking/22764995 The WoW boards will be down for at least the entire work day tomorrow BTW. 8am - 5pm Pacific.

This sticky thread to teach the HotS folks how the system works is a really good read. It was written by MVP WyomingMist. That is likely where the reddit thread got their information.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/new-forum-syntax-guide-details-about-trust-levels/
When it comes to D3, it will be similar, not not necessarily exactly alike.

11/12/2018 08:36 AMPosted by regawS
I personally do not know all the loop holes they have come up with outside of freeness of speech,


There are no loop holes. You don't seem to understand how the amendment works. It means the Government can't arrest you for speaking your mind about political issues or criticizing the Govt. This was put in place because Kings and Authoritarian rulers used to arrest and even execute people who spoke up against the Govt. This still happens in some places in the world.

You do not have the right to say what you want on private property, like these forums, or my house. You can't rant in the middle of Walmart either. Those private properties have the right to set rules and enforce them, including removing you from their property (forum ban).
11/12/2018 05:17 AMPosted by regawS
Let them implement this system. This infringes on our rights for freedom is speech (including trolls). Sounds like they are wanting lawsuits and we should be happy to oblige.


You are 100% wrong this is a private forum they own it and if they don't want people acting like idiots they can take steps to stop it. If you do not like it then stop posting. It's that simple.
11/12/2018 08:49 AMPosted by MissCheetah
I have been telling you guys about this stuff coming for months now. Then again, we have a lot of people posting right now who are not normally on the forums.

-The OW forums changed to the Discourse forum software in Feb 2018.
-The HotS forums changed to the Discoruse forum software this summer.
-Hearthstone was planned next for Oct, but got delayed.
-WoW changes TOMORROW.
-D3 and SC2 will also change. All the forums will be moving to the new software.

There are some very nice changes coming with regard to notifications, use of emojis, and the ability to make really nice guides once you get to higher trust levels. The formatting you have access to at that point can be useful.

You can read the WoW announcement here that goes into some of the changes https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/breaking/22764995 The WoW boards will be down for at least the entire work day tomorrow BTW. 8am - 5pm Pacific.

This sticky thread to teach the HotS folks how the system works is a really good read. It was written by MVP WyomingMist. That is likely where the reddit thread got their information.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/new-forum-syntax-guide-details-about-trust-levels/
When it comes to D3, it will be similar, not not necessarily exactly alike.

11/12/2018 08:36 AMPosted by regawS
I personally do not know all the loop holes they have come up with outside of freeness of speech,


There are no loop holes. You don't seem to understand how the amendment works. It means the Government can't arrest you for speaking your mind about political issues or criticizing the Govt. This was put in place because Kings and Authoritarian rulers used to arrest and even execute people who spoke up against the Govt. This still happens in some places in the world.

You do not have the right to say what you want on private property, like these forums, or my house. You can't rant in the middle of Walmart either. Those private properties have the right to set rules and enforce them, including removing you from their property (forum ban).


Thank you for correcting me.
11/12/2018 08:49 AMPosted by Fenrir
11/12/2018 05:17 AMPosted by regawS
Let them implement this system. This infringes on our rights for freedom is speech (including trolls). Sounds like they are wanting lawsuits and we should be happy to oblige.


You are 100% wrong this is a private forum they own it and if they don't want people acting like idiots they can take steps to stop it. If you do not like it then stop posting. It's that simple.


Thank you for correcting me.
Anything to keep the toolishness down. Also 1984...I was 4 I feel old now
11/12/2018 08:49 AMPosted by MissCheetah
This sticky thread to teach the HotS folks how the system works is a really good read. It was written by MVP WyomingMist.


Will you create such a guideline thread for us aswell ? That would be a great contribution tho i fear they wont sticky it here as they did not even sticky your "obtainable wings and items thread" which deserved to be stickied anyways.
I am not well caught up in my con-law, but there are issues of public forum and monopoly when it comes to online speech on massive hosting forums. Its a developing area.

I am mostly disturbed by the removal of downvotes (meaning you disagree) and replacing it only with a system of flagging (meaning you claim to be offended). A culture where disagreeing with someone's "narrative" is "demeaning" but claiming you are offended by an opinion is a reasonable is a little more than a little authoritarian and oppressive.
11/12/2018 08:56 AMPosted by NINEGRAVES
11/12/2018 08:49 AMPosted by MissCheetah
This sticky thread to teach the HotS folks how the system works is a really good read. It was written by MVP WyomingMist.


Will you create such a guideline thread for us aswell ? That would be a great contribution tho i fear they wont sticky it here as they did not even sticky your "obtainable wings and items thread" which deserved to be stickied anyways.


They did sticky my thread in the Items Forum. Sadly I can't edit it anymore due to character count limits or something.

As for a guide, I will refer to the one done by WyomingMist to be honest. I have not used the new forums much and he has been doing really really nice work on the OW side. He knows a lot more than I do about how they work, and about how to make fancy guides and stuff. If there is anything notably different for Diablo, I will make mention of it though assuming I know about it.

I need to learn to remake my Wings and Things guide in the new format which should help me get familiar with the new forum features.
11/12/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Negator
I am not well caught up in my con-law, but there are issues of public forum and monopoly when it comes to online speech on massive hosting forums. Its a developing area.

I am mostly disturbed by the removal of downvotes (meaning you disagree) and replacing it only with a system of flagging (meaning you claim to be offended). A culture where disagreeing with someone's "narrative" is "demeaning" but claiming you are offended by an opinion is a reasonable is a little more than a little authoritarian and oppressive.


The way the new forums work we only get a limited number of flags a day. Spamming them on "opinions" wastes them. They also cracked down on the OW forums when people used them to shut down threads that had a different (but not trolling) opinion. People got punished for it. So, they will keep an eye on it and adjust our settings as needed.

One of the good (maybe?) things about the new software is that the back end that handles reporting and actions is MUCH easier for the Forum Mod team. We shall see how that works out. I expect a perception of increased moderation, not because the rules change, but because the tools changed.
11/12/2018 09:21 AMPosted by MissCheetah
11/12/2018 09:16 AMPosted by Negator
I am not well caught up in my con-law, but there are issues of public forum and monopoly when it comes to online speech on massive hosting forums. Its a developing area.

I am mostly disturbed by the removal of downvotes (meaning you disagree) and replacing it only with a system of flagging (meaning you claim to be offended). A culture where disagreeing with someone's "narrative" is "demeaning" but claiming you are offended by an opinion is a reasonable is a little more than a little authoritarian and oppressive.


The way the new forums work we only get a limited number of flags a day. Spamming them on "opinions" wastes them. They also cracked down on the OW forums when people used them to shut down threads that had a different (but not trolling) opinion. People got punished for it. So, they will keep an eye on it and adjust our settings as needed.

One of the good (maybe?) things about the new software is that the back end that handles reporting and actions is MUCH easier for the Forum Mod team. We shall see how that works out. I expect a perception of increased moderation, not because the rules change, but because the tools changed.
Sounds reasonable to me. It sucks when your trying to have discussion and someone starts throwing bombs.
11/12/2018 09:18 AMPosted by MissCheetah
They did sticky my thread in the Items Forum. Sadly I can't edit it anymore due to character count limits or something.


Ah there it hides; allright. Probably would had been better to sticky it here in the general discussion forums too as most people read here; but ok, putting it there of course makes sense aswell forum structure like.

Yeh good, i dont think aswell there will be too much of a difference with the new forums guide between D3 and HotS, however they should sticky it here aswell when its there to avoid confusion and probably resulting bad feedback.
11/12/2018 08:36 AMPosted by regawS
11/12/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Rodrick
...

To me, and I really am not all that hot when it comes to idiom and colloquialisms from other languages, but I am guessing that the poster that you quoted is not a native English speaker. From their grasp of civics I would also guess they are not necessarily (could be but not mandatory) an American Citizen. Therefore they may not be aware of the current interpretation (wrong in my humble opine) of the First Amendment by SCOTUS which seemingly carves out an exception to free speech when the forum is not one operated by a federal or state agency of the government (although there is stare decisis precedent that may be attachable to some of these forae in the form of Marsh v. Alabama and Pruneyard Marketplaces v Robins) but rather is operated by a private entity.

They may have the idea that free speech is truly free in the United States. All ideas all forms all forae all content acceptable.

Something that we know to currently not be the case. And something that if we want the US to continue to be the great place that it is we will most likely need to change to fit more with what the other poster actually believes rather than the sad reality that exists around it today.


You are absolutely accurate. I personally do not know all the loop holes they have come up with outside of freeness of speech, and it seems that you are far more educated about the topic than I am. Thank you for seeing my point though. It’s should be more about the spirit of the law over the letter. To take away our right of freeness of posting opinion as long as it’s within the boundaries of others civil rights is criminal in my opinion. It’s an absolute atrocity that a public accessible website can have private rules they can put in place. If you work in the US, or any country in that manner, your forum should reflect the laws of the constitutional rights. Not cases that lawyers and law makers have weaseled their ways of taking away freeness of speech. Thank you for your response.


You and the guy you quoted are both wrong, wrong, wrong.

Freedom of speech is a government/state mandate. It is not a private company mandate.
have fun with all the abuse of it ^^
11/12/2018 09:21 AMPosted by MissCheetah

The way the new forums work we only get a limited number of flags a day. Spamming them on "opinions" wastes them. They also cracked down on the OW forums when people used them to shut down threads that had a different (but not trolling) opinion. People got punished for it. So, they will keep an eye on it and adjust our settings as needed.

One of the good (maybe?) things about the new software is that the back end that handles reporting and actions is MUCH easier for the Forum Mod team. We shall see how that works out. I expect a perception of increased moderation, not because the rules change, but because the tools changed.


I hope the forum gets some good guidelines like planetcalypsoforum* has for it's rep system and that mods enforce those guidelines...

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?51993-Proper-Usage-of-the-PCF-Reputation-System
There was a time when upvotes and downvotes were not a thing on forums. To express your disagreement with a post you had to actually respond and to be taken seriously you actually had to back up your claims.

The trust system is hilarious, though. Who do you think is going to have high "trust levels"?
11/12/2018 04:06 AMPosted by acidrain
I would love to see downvotes go away. They don't add to discussion at all and there's no reason to downvote if you're not going to say why, which most people don't.

Can you give a logical reason why it's okay to up-vote without saying why but not okay to down-vote without saying why?

It's like a survey that asks how super someone is...
    a) super
    b) really super
    c) omg super amazing

What do people that don't think you're super click on?
11/12/2018 08:49 AMPosted by MissCheetah
There are no loop holes. You don't seem to understand how the amendment works. It means the Government can't arrest you for speaking your mind about political issues or criticizing the Govt. This was put in place because Kings and Authoritarian rulers used to arrest and even execute people who spoke up against the Govt. This still happens in some places in the world.

You do not have the right to say what you want on private property, like these forums, or my house. You can't rant in the middle of Walmart either. Those private properties have the right to set rules and enforce them, including removing you from their property (forum ban).


That is absolutely correct, but regardless of people mixing up terminology here I think it is still crucial and valid to criticize this particular choice of Blizzard - even when it might be absolutely legal.

Personally speaking, when I feel a forum is putting up all sorts of restrictions, limitations and rules to limit people in their ability of expression to what is convenient for the company hosting the forum, I lose all interest and just move on to another forum.

If companies want to create their own echo chambers, then please do it without me, as I don't believe in this approach of corporate douchebaggery.
11/12/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Meteorblade
11/12/2018 04:06 AMPosted by acidrain
I would love to see downvotes go away. They don't add to discussion at all and there's no reason to downvote if you're not going to say why, which most people don't.

Can you give a logical reason why it's okay to up-vote without saying why but not okay to down-vote without saying why?

It's like a survey that asks how super someone is...
    a) super
    b) really super
    c) omg super amazing

What do people that don't think you're super click on?


or... you can post statement something like "He is definitely not super" or "He is horrible" and get more upvotes than former post.

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