Twister does more damage than Starpact?

Wizard
Why do console players not use a starpact wizard in their 3 and 4 man teams? I understand that twisters is better on console than pc due to being able to cast twister while channeling, but does it actually do more damage than starpact? They cannot clear 150 the like pc can. It seems to me that they could push much higher using sp like pc does, but my instinct tells me that if it were better, people would be doing it, as console players are competitive in nature just like anyone pushing on pc.

The reasons i can think of include:
-because mob density is less, perhaps sp cannot frequently pack enough mobs in close to make it useful (maybe)?
-because it does less damage (although i highly doubt it)
-because its too difficult to drop meteors where you want them to drop due to the limitations of not having a mouse (more likely i think)

Ideally someone who pushes could explain why they dont use sp wiz

**i should probably ask in the console channel, moving this**
I've personally tried Firebirds/Starpact Wiz and for the first time and I was getting killed a lot when I tried it as I didn't understand the mechanics of it.
Console players will find it even harder to use it and I'll explain why.

First of all as you know Firebirds is purely a fire build set but with Star pact its Arcane element and yet your gear has to be tuned to Arcane element than fire element to which I find very strange on a Fire set.

I had to watch youtube videos of Firebirds/Starpact build to figure out what I was doing wrong when I tried this build, as even I was confused on how its suppose to work when it comes to using Star Pact on a Firebirds set.

First of all you need to do a lot of stacking in order to get your Star Pact damage up high and also do a lot of igniting with firebirds DoT.
Your channelling skills do the igniting and your signature skills focus on Dynamo stacks.

So its pretty much channel with two different fire skills which ignite enemies along with Force weapon ignite (which is the 3 different fire skills) and then getting stacks with hitting with Wave of Force per enemy.

In a quick way of saying its channel, channel, ignite stacks, wave of force stacks, signature channel for dynamo stacks and Nuke with Star Pact = win.
But doing this on console will be very complicated as you have to time it right and also controlling your channelling to hit all enemies around you.

But the problem I find is having to gather a lot of enemies and stay alive while building Firebird ignite stacks and then having to wave of force on them to get another set of stacks so your next arcane spell will be more powerful...therefor Star Pact comes in.

So yeah I do find its a strange build, and also its seems more like a group build than a single build which is why console players might choose solo builds than a group build.

Though I can't answer whether Twisters are stronger, yet I haven't tried the Wave of Force stacks build on Twisters with Wicked Wind rune for arcane damage and see if getting the most wave of force stacks will improve Twisters damage yet its worth a try.

Funny I never though Wave of Force - Arcane Attunement rune could be that strong when combine with Star Pact.
What's funny I've played this game for years and I'm STILL learning and discovering new things with different builds.
I've played Wiz the most and certainly learnt if not all or most Wiz builds but STILL somethings still surprise me when people discover new builds that I haven't discovered yet.
Even still I make my own builds just for fun, even though it might not be a top tier build I still do it for fun.

But yeah in answer your question I do think playing on console is a whole different ball game as you don't have a mouse to work with when it comes to aiming meteors and also aiming is very hard with a console controller...well for me personally.

But in talking about Firebirds Star Pact wiz its quite a complicated build as its not an easy build to pick up and play as it requires a lot of practice so I can understand console would be very difficult to play this build.

But having to practice fast channelling and stacking stacks while gather a lot of enemies for maximum effect of Firebirds DoT igniting and Wave of force stacking and then finishing them of by nuking them with Star Pact.

I have to admit I do have to get back to trying this build out and see if I can get better at it.
I have been playing it on console, I use to play it on pc up to top few places on solo and 2man. Its not that hard, but it is so much easier to live playing twisters. Starpact seems to be more damage (slightly).

You missed a step in your damage, after you cast starpact you need to recast a primary spell to generate AP then channel as the meteor lands, if you do not do that, your damage will be trash

Arcane attunement is a multiplicative bonus. Multiply 1quadril of area damage by 2.6 for having wave of force hitting 40 mobs, yeah.. thats a big deal.

The best version for group play needs to use the death meteor of firebirds two set bonus to trigger your third fire for burn btw, then you use blackhole and wave of force (top also use strongarm bracers).
One additional console difference is that Twister did not get the pc nerf several patches ago so I believe you can stack Twisters on a corner like the old days and group up mobs to where theye are stacked. Since the Twisters don't dissipate ehen stationary like on pc the damage can ramp up extremely high.
12/17/2018 11:36 AMPosted by Legendairy
You missed a step in your damage, after you cast starpact you need to recast a primary spell to generate AP then channel as the meteor lands, if you do not do that, your damage will be trash

Arcane attunement is a multiplicative bonus. Multiply 1quadril of area damage by 2.6 for having wave of force hitting 40 mobs, yeah.. thats a big deal.

The best version for group play needs to use the death meteor of firebirds two set bonus to trigger your third fire for burn btw, then you use blackhole and wave of force (top also use strongarm bracers).


Yeah I knew about this step but my post was a bit two long to mention every single detail.
But yeah this build is complicated in that timing is everything that you do from Channeling to Signature channeling to get your AP back up for another Star Pact and then back to Signature channelling again BEFORE the Star Pact hits...sounds very complicated but its not that complicated when you see a video of how your suppose to do.

But yeah you do need practice with channelling, Star Pact and back to channelling again.

But yeah its all got to do with Deathwish and Etched Sigil combined.
Because Deathwish gives you channelling damage and the beauty of Etched Sigil is that it will cast your other skills even if you haven't had the cooldown ready yet for that skill yet...so you will get another free cast of Star Pact.

Though I'm not sure which is better Ancient Parthan Defenders over Strongarm bracers though as it depend which skills do knockbacks and which do stunning.

Also forgot to mention is CoE rotation in this build is also very important when you do Star Pact along with Dynamo stacks as you want Arcane rotation when it hits, but you have to time it when you cast the spell and the time when the Meteor actually hits...because when you cast Star Pact you get a purple circle of where its aimed and then few seconds later the Meteor comes crashing down at that point...but its the timing of CoE can be a juggling act along with the timing of the Meteors.

I know when I was doing Firebirds Archon build the timing of CoE is easier as I just activate Archon just before it gets to fire rotation as then I get the maximum amount of damage when fire rotation is up but also the Chantodo stacks.

I must say all Firebird set builds are tricky to learn as even the Firebirds Archon build was a build I had to practice for quite sometime before I could get the hang of it and manage to push into GR80+.
Its a learning experience really.
The simple answer, they didn't nerf twister wiz on console. Only PC.
12/17/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Khord
One additional console difference is that Twister did not get the pc nerf several patches ago so I believe you can stack Twisters on a corner like the old days and group up mobs to where theye are stacked. Since the Twisters don't dissipate ehen stationary like on pc the damage can ramp up extremely high.


Wait.... then why aren't people on console just running twister wizards and at like 4-6k paragon on average now? Twister stacking was one of the most broken things ever. The damage was bonkers. Add in deathwish and all of the other multipliers we have now, people should be twister farming super high GRs. Almost makes me want to try console, but trying to adjust to gamepad from keyboard and mouse would suck.
I read somewhere that on consoles casting twisters manually don't break channeling, so you can channel and cast twisters at the same time. Hence all twisters are buffed by deathwish and etched sigill.

I don't think so you can stack twsiters on consoles, if it would be possible then with casting them while channeling it would probably result in 140+ GR solo.
Yes, Twister stacking works on consoles only. But, twister stacking is not as easy to do on a console and even when you have most of your twisters stacking due to facing a wall or w/e, random ones spin off on their own path regardless. You cant just reliably teleport to wall corner and cast with mouse over the wall as you did in pc. Yes you can cast twisters while channeling on console, that is why everyone uses dmo twister and it is the console meta.

Sorry, no maskedreaper, the additional starpact that drops from the etched sigil is not really worth mentioning, it does comparatively no damage because it is triggered as if at 0 SP, and it cannot proc area damage. And I think its a bit misleading to call it a difficult or complicated spec, just that its best practiced in a 2man group first when being learnt.

As for APD's or Strongarm, I can definitively tell you the answer. Strongarm is the best for pushing highest GRs in the game as a group. APD's are mandatory for solo.
12/18/2018 05:22 PMPosted by Legendairy
Sorry, no maskedreaper, the additional starpact that drops from the etched sigil is not really worth mentioning, it does comparatively no damage because it is triggered as if at 0 SP, and it cannot proc area damage. And I think its a bit misleading to call it a difficult or complicated spec, just that its best practiced in a 2man group first when being learnt.

As for APD's or Strongarm, I can definitively tell you the answer. Strongarm is the best for pushing highest GRs in the game as a group. APD's are mandatory for solo.


You missed quoted me...I didn't say the additional Star Pact from Etched Sigil did area damage, I just mention that Etched Sigil will cast addition free Star Pact and other skills that's all.
Also I didn't mention any damage that came from Etched Sigil.
But Etched Sigil does have its own legendary power damage up to 150% which is quite small.

The full benefit of Star Pact damage is when you manually cast SP yourself at full AP along with other stacks of Wave of Force, Dynamo and the legendary powers of The Grand Vizer, Nilfur Boast and Deathwish if your channeling.
But also at the same time your weakening the enemy by infinite burning Firebirds DoT beforehand.

You say best practice in a 2man group...well yeah it does seem more of a group build but if you try and practice it solo like I did it becomes complicated because your not getting any support.
Trying to practice a group build solo is...well...messy.
Its can be even more complicated if you don't know what your suppose to be doing or never seen anyone use the build before or never even seen or read any guides of it before.

Basically I pick up the build from the top leaderboards and tried it myself without any guides...so yeah that some pretty crazy stuff jumping into a build when you don't know how it works or know whether its suppose to be a group build or a solo build.
I am crazy...but at least I'm crazy enough to try anything. lol
The full benefit of Star Pact damage is when you manually cast SP yourself at full AP along with other stacks of Wave of Force, Dynamo and the legendary powers of The Grand Vizer, Nilfur Boast and Deathwish if your channeling.

I know exactly how it works man, you dont have to explain it to me.

the beauty of Etched Sigil is that it will cast your other skills even if you haven't had the cooldown ready yet for that skill yet...so you will get another free cast of Star Pact.

I guess i misunderstood this statement you made then? I wasn't saying you did say it did area damage, i was explaining why it does no damage.

But also at the same time your weakening the enemy by infinite burning Firebirds DoT beforehand.


The dot from burning does no damage dude.
You can see this by looking at what % of total damage comes from starpact in the sp wiz rotation, see image: https://imgur.com/a/NLd0rVf

Basically I pick up the build from the top leaderboards and tried it myself without any guides.

Yeah ok, makes sense i guess if you try to pick it up that way. Each to their own. I practiced it with a patient friend of mine and it didn't take long to learn, and it was fun learning it with someone.
12/18/2018 10:56 PMPosted by Legendairy
The full benefit of Star Pact damage is when you manually cast SP yourself at full AP along with other stacks of Wave of Force, Dynamo and the legendary powers of The Grand Vizer, Nilfur Boast and Deathwish if your channeling.

I know exactly how it works man, you dont have to explain it to me.

Well know one explained it to me as I tried it and it didn't work then I had to look it up and see what I was doing wrong...learned it the hard way HAHA.

But also at the same time your weakening the enemy by infinite burning Firebirds DoT beforehand.


The dot from burning does no damage dude.
You can see this by looking at what % of total damage comes from starpact in the sp wiz rotation, see image: https://imgur.com/a/NLd0rVf


Wait what about the 3000 weapon per second weapon when igniting with 3 different fire skills then...aren't you doing 3 different fire skills?
Oh I know why you said this its because you don't use 3 different fire skills...I just looked at your profile...know wonder we aren't on the same page.

There IS another variation on this build where you can use the Firebirds DoT infinite burn with this build.
But you have to use Electrocute - Forked Lightning, Arcane Torrent - Flame Ward and Force Weapon - Ignite for the 3 different fire skills.
Then have Storm Armour for this build and not Ice Armour.
Force Weapon replaces Teleport if your in a group and want the benefit of Firebirds DoT in groups.

I'll have to find the guide of this build to show you but I'm not sure how it compares to your build over the one I was trying out.

I couldn't believe it we are actually talking about two different variations of one build and then I worked it out when you said Firebirds DoT don't work.
Yet in my build I was doing Firebirds DoT with Star Pact so I don't know if betters in comparision in having Firebirds DoT as having extra damage while channeling...but it sounds like you weren't doing any Firebirds DoT.
We aren't really talking about two different builds mate. Its just that the burn you are talking about does absolutely nothing compared to the damage from the starpact. I am using the two burn, because I'm dying intentionally to trigger the third burn effect on an elite to get my full stacks. Doing so allows me to deal more damage because i can now take wave of force in my solo spec without dropping the mandatory teleport. But i still have to burn elites the same as anyone else. Whether you or I burn just the elite or everything around us makes very little difference because the burn effect {3000% wep damage} is insignificant

The reason it does not do much damage is because it doesnt have enough multipliers effecting it. At low GRs, sure it does something. But at any reasonable push that damage is completely ineffective. Trust me man
Like I said complicated build in a way that I'm saying is a tricky build either way you play it whether its two burn...three burn...and pushing GR100+ there's variations people are trying to see which is strongest whether for more for survival or better for the group that can push the highest GR.

Also you started this topic questioning console on this build...can console players even push GR100+ with this build?...I wouldn't know because I don't play on console.

Personally I don't like the build per say but I do like to try different things.
I rather stick to solo builds that are viable and work for me and my play style.
But if I can adapt this build in a solo way and push high GR with it then I'm pleased.
But I have multiple Wiz's to play with and experiement with.
Once the patch hits I see Tals getting a major buff so I like to try that one out as I've already have two pieces of Tals primal ancient and see if the patch makes a major difference over current builds.
yes they can, i have been trying it out on console, it does about the same damage, it will be limited by the mob density on console it seems. Much harder to live with than their meta tho. DMO is so faceroll on console.

Im going to be using tal starpact. I dislike dmo, even if it does end up stronger, i will not be using it. I like how everything falls down suddenly with meteor

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