Is the Diablo IP stuck in a time loop?

General Discussion
There's a lot of talk surrounding the Diablo IP, what it was and what it should become. The old school fans want it do remain as true to Diablo 2 as possible and some of the new fans want it to grow beyond D2. It is a legendary IP, one that is even stronger than the Blizzard brand.

In a way, Diablo is stuck in a time loop. It either lives up to previous titles (D1 & D2) or it's a complete failure. There's no in between. There's a huge incentive for Blizzard to just go back to what used to work and abandon any other avenue. D4 must be like D2.

It is possible, that what old school Diablo fans want wouldn't be a huge commercial success in 2019 and beyond. Sadly, a company the size of Blizzard cannot afford to make games that would be considered "niche". D4 would need to be the right balance between a true D2 successor and a next gen RPG, allowing people to progress relatively quickly, but while still remaining a game that offers players the possibly to be much better if they invest more time.

The gaming community is much larger than it was in the early 2000's, people from all backgrounds play games. Those players are not stuck in the early days of Diablo and do not care about old games. Sadly, this crowd needs to be pleased with D4, just as much as the old school guys.
Everyone will get to have their say on how good D4 is for a next gen RPG or how true to the originals it is. The days when Blizzard could claim some sort of monopoly on the RPG crowd is long gone and it's not their fault. The market just got much bigger and no RPG game can hope to please all the players of the genre.

How could Blizzard possibly please all the old school RPG players?
The short answer would be that they can't. Diablo cannot live up to the expectations anymore and it's not a problem with Blizzard or the players, it's about the market. The market for games such as Diablo is saturated and being original is increasingly harder. Even PoE is subject to this reality, since a good portion of its players are (were) Diablo fans and they could leave for another better game in the near future. You can only do so much to keep people happy.

It is my belief that Diablo is stuck in a loop and will not be able to get out of it if they don't innovate. It may even mean that they need to forget about calling it "Diablo 4" to help the fans realize that it's not a direct sequel, but rather a game based on the Diablo universe (much like what they did with WoW). Play on D2's strengths, while trying to go above and beyond to please more people than the old school fans.

In your views, what can Blizzard do to move forward with Diablo and please you as a customer?
Is this an essay for a high school paper? You've said nothing that isn't an obvious fact for all longstanding IP's.

Yes D4 has to be better than D2/3 in almost every way, yet somehow unique and innovative. The challenge of every sequel.
They need to build on all the good features of D1, D2, and D3, while adding in some new twists. The problem with most sequels that are made by a different group is that they feel they need to reinvent the wheel to get the fan base engaged and put their stamp on it. In reality, they best solution is to build on the previous successes to meet existing fans expectations while adding in some new ideas to catch a bigger base.

As for the players bases, millenials tend to want shallow games with quick easy gratification, so they can play a game for a few weeks or a month, then move on to the next one. Not as much brand loyalty, but they are usually good for some quick cash. Gen X'ers tend to want a deeper game with a lot of replayability and a slower path to the goal, so they can get their money's worth. These are your brand loyal players and most likely the ones giving the lions share of pushback against the mobile trash.

It all boils down to the direction Blizz wants to go. Do they want a temporary fan base that they can get a lot of quick cash from and they are gone, or do they want a fan base that won't make them quite as much money short term, but will be brand loyal to the end. If they want to do the dance and try to keep both groups happy, it isn't going to happen with just one title. 'Multiple projects' had better be multiple games or else they are going to lose one of these player bases.
12/09/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Imperius
In a way, Diablo is stuck in a time loop.


I don't think time loop is the phrase you're looking for. Wouldn't a time loop imply that they're doing the same thing over and over, looking for a way out? Regardless of whether you like the differences or not, D3 is markedly different from the previous games in the Diablo series.

12/09/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Imperius
Sadly, a company the size of Blizzard cannot afford to make games that would be considered "niche".


Not to be contrary, but I would argue it's precisely because Blizzard is such a large and financially successful company that they could 'afford' to make a niche game. It's highly unlikely that they would, of course, but they'd be far more able to shrug off the (potential) financial loss of a niche game than a smaller indie dev would.
They evade confrontation. That's how they will lose the battle in aRPG. They even freak out of getting compared to their previous titles, comparable to being afraid of their own shadow and follow a completely reverse model with D3. I'd like to see some boldness and bravery at D4 if anything.

They have lots to do to study other titles and what previous titles did best until then. D3 lacked at randomization, rewarding and exploration departments and more importantly made it almost impossible to sustain at the terms of diverse end game.

Everything you can do in D3 is cramped at one single spot, that shouldn't be the game's end goal to bound you to do chores. That's empowered by the fact how restrictive Set items are and how you are dependent on them.
Anything you can perform different by combinating items, simply trimmed like a burr in a matter of weeks, served with "that's not how you supposed to play". You're smearing the fact that it's your game everytime. We get it, but not everything supposed to be bound to your view either, Blizzard.

Before you say "Oh hey people like this new wave approach it's faux and kewl", then tell me why most streamers left D3 along the 6 years? Despite Reaper of Souls? Why twitch views losing count? Answer these. Face it. Face yourself, accept something objective for once and do the right thing. Game has deadends, lacks diversity and have a huge reward gap that funnels players on a single yardstick everytime.
Filter your thoughts; D3 did good things but D2 and D1 did good things as well. So are other aRPG titles in the genre. Why can't you just accept it and try to analyze instead of being a whiner? Stop being a fanboy just because D3 is your first game and try to understand the situation. Get over yourself and try to gather a worldview instead of being a stuck up.

Not everything revolves around your views. Developers been saying us that, but no one likes a bossy tossing orders and swagging tags around unless you get paid to do their bidding. That's also what we do in the game; a chore, for no reason.

Not everything should be limited to "one individual's" imagination, that's where you blew it. This dismissal communication went on for years, it's hilarious the way it's revealed honestly. We've been awaiting updates about D3 for the worst, then we faced the fact that everything is done.

What's more excruciating is fans donning medias' view about gamers and plastering "entitled" all over their own face yet parroting their word without questioning. Well done, really well done... Shill media outlets did more damage to Blizzard stock than market facts, then you know it's a fad move on Blizzard's part.
Latest crash should've tell you well enough that industry doesn't revolve around anyone. As a whole, software industry have their own motives and trending right now. Blizzard failed to catch this up, big time.

If game has a deadend issue, address that then remove any obstacle that may cause that jarring effect then problem will solve itself. Face yourself for once. You have to study other titles in previous installments as well as other titles as well.
Take a deep look on how they handled randomization, exploration and how they rewarded it for replayability. That's my view on how you should approach D4 or any other next installment; stop "shivering" and get things done like "Blizzard". World doesn't revolve around your nose.
The old school fans want it do remain as true to Diablo 2 as possible and some of the new fans want it to grow beyond D2.


DIII developers rebuked everything Diablo and every decision made was out of spite for the community and Blizzard North. Beta players remember.

Jay Wilson had no experience with the franchise and Blizzard thought of Diablo fans as gullible addicts because of the gambling nature of RNG.
Design was simplified and streamlined so the auction house could work efficiently with "micro transactions". A obvious cash grab.

They destroyed the soul of this game and did absolutely nothing to evolve the legacy that made Diablo a great IP.

This has nothing to do with players. It's bad business.
12/09/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Black
Is this an essay for a high school paper? You've said nothing that isn't an obvious fact for all longstanding IP's.

Yes D4 has to be better than D2/3 in almost every way, yet somehow unique and innovative. The challenge of every sequel.


This ... innovation and iteration on an existing concept is pretty much the pattern for all progress of our society. It isn’t an earth shattering new concept. We’ve been doing it as a species since the days of our ancient ancestors and stone tools lol.

D2 LoD can be further innovated and iterated on no doubt. Thus creating a similar yet improved experience.
12/09/2018 01:18 PMPosted by nvvr
The old school fans want it do remain as true to Diablo 2 as possible and some of the new fans want it to grow beyond D2.


DIII developers rebuked everything Diablo and every decision made was out of spite for the community and Blizzard North. Beta players remember.

Jay Wilson had no experience with the franchise and Blizzard thought of Diablo fans as gullible addicts because of the gambling nature of RNG.
Design was simplified and streamlined so the auction house could work efficiently with "micro transactions". A obvious cash grab.

They destroyed the soul of this game and did absolutely nothing to evolve the legacy that made Diablo a great IP.

This has nothing to do with players. It's bad business.


Aren’t you thankful?
The Diablo IP is stuck in Hell, where there are no designers and developers that actually understand what Diablo is about and how to design successors to D2LOD.

The people responsible for D3 are also to blame to the highest extend, because they had D1 and especially D2LOD that showed how to create a Diablo game, and they still failed.

Ignorance, and Arrogance of several key-individuals on the D3 team have nearly ruined the franchise IMO.

In the end what matters now is, that the people that work on D4 will actually do their best to return to Diablo's roots, and repair the damage done, by creating a true successor to D2LOD, and then some.
12/09/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Black
Is this an essay for a high school paper? You've said nothing that isn't an obvious fact for all longstanding IP's.

Yes D4 has to be better than D2/3 in almost every way, yet somehow unique and innovative. The challenge of every sequel.


It's not just about it being a sequel, it's about trying to compete with the huge amount of RPGs out there.
D1 and D2 didn't have much in terms of competition. In the late 90's and early 2000's, they could set the standard for such games much more easily than they could today.
I don't think time loop is the phrase you're looking for. Wouldn't a time loop imply that they're doing the same thing over and over, looking for a way out?


The way I see it, it's about being restricted to do what they already did, because the IP's identity was pretty much set in stone with D2. It was such a massive success for a RPG that just trying to do something else sets them up for failure, which is the reason why D3 is despised by a lot of the old school players. it's the reason why I think they should forget about calling the next Diablo game "Diablo 4", because the expectations of the fans will simply be too high if they do.

Doing a massive time jump or going back way before D1, that's what would be best. Doing this will allow them more leeway when it comes to setting the tone for this new game and possibly a new series.

For example, Warhammer isn't limited to one timeline and this allows them to be much more creative.
12/09/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Imperius
Doing a massive time jump or going back way before D1


Sin War?
12/09/2018 08:57 AMPosted by Imperius
In your views, what can Blizzard do to move forward with Diablo and please you as a customer?


Another great story.
D1/D2/D3 and their expansions Hellfire, Lord of Destruction and Ritual of Souls were all great stories.
12/09/2018 04:42 PMPosted by naksiloth
12/09/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Imperius
Doing a massive time jump or going back way before D1


Sin War?


Playing the Vizjerei ;) A wizard that casts spells and raises demons

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